List Mgmt. 2020 List Management

[Beer n Skittles]

Anyone get the chance to watch GWS last night? How did Williams go playing in the guts?

Hopefully our preoccupation with Papley has waned and we have set our sights out of contract B or C grade small forwards with potential. Think we have plenty of talent to develop from within this current playing group other than small crumbers with a nous for kicking goals.

I didn't watch but further to this - did he actually play in the guts? Looking at the stats it seems like Greene played in the middle and Williams took his spot in the forwardline.

Williams - 18 touches, 2 clearances, 2 goals.
Greene - 30 touches, 4 clearances, 0 goals.

 

[ABigOlDoofus]

I didn't watch but further to this - did he actually play in the guts? Looking at the stats it seems like Greene played in the middle and Williams took his spot in the forwardline.

Williams - 18 touches, 2 clearances, 2 goals.
Greene - 30 touches, 4 clearances, 0 goals.

From the little I saw he was playing forward. Considering that's the position I'd consider him worst at 18 touches and 2 snags is a pretty bloody good return.

 

[Beer n Skittles]

From the little I saw he was playing forward. Considering that's the position I'd consider him worst at 18 touches and 2 snags is a pretty bloody good return.

Well it shows he can do anything

 

[Own The Future]

Okay - I don’t think we’ll be going after Toby McLean now... [emoji20]

 

[Brackets]

We've put together a very soft team unfortunately.

 

[BlueTongue]

We've put together a very soft team unfortunately.

Not Really. The mental fragility pre-dates the current playing group.

 

[BlueTongue]

We aren't anywhere near a flag, so I with the utmost respect, I would cut Murph, and Simmo with a slew of younger 'battlers' and top up with some talent that can kick the ball. I didn't think we needed another defender but after watching Williams over the last few games, his disposal is exactly what we need. Throw the chequebook and picks at GWS and get him, then trade up some picks to get a better first rounder.

 

[mochacinolatte]

I didn't watch but further to this - did he actually play in the guts? Looking at the stats it seems like Greene played in the middle and Williams took his spot in the forwardline.

Williams - 18 touches, 2 clearances, 2 goals.
Greene - 30 touches, 4 clearances, 0 goals.

50/50 m/f.

 

[Eiffel 65]

We aren't anywhere near a flag, so I with the utmost respect, I would cut Murph, and Simmo with a slew of younger 'battlers' and top up with some talent that can kick the ball. I didn't think we needed another defender but after watching Williams over the last few games, his disposal is exactly what we need. Throw the chequebook and picks at GWS and get him, then trade up some picks to get a better first rounder.

Correct. We're absolutely no where near it.

The best teams like Richmond and West Coast don't get belted off the park by teams sitting 18th on the ladder with one round to go.

We've still got a long way to go. We need to be smart with our assets.

 

[The Return of the Paf]

Not Really. The mental fragility pre-dates the current playing group.

Yes, but that's beside the point, the 'softness' (with a few exceptions) isn't a trait of the players in isolation, it's the lack of grit in the playing list on the whole. We've spent too much time trying to fit square pegs into round holes (so to speak) and not nearly enough in the acquisition of quality for the sake of quality.

 

[gbatman]

Haven't got a bad list and we aren't a bad team, just need to fill in the holes.

Add a couple of good small forwards and quick, tough, skilled centermen and we will challenge for the top of the ladder but our game plan needs to develop as well.

Things could click very quickly for us next season, expecting a very serious Carlton outfit by the middle of next season.

 

[Kruezing]

Haven't got a bad list and we aren't a bad team, just need to fill in the holes.

Add a couple of good small forwards and quick, tough, skilled centermen and we will challenge for the top of the ladder but our game plan needs to develop as well.

Things could click very quickly for us next season, expecting a very serious Carlton outfit by the middle of next season.

You’re using a lot of plurals there Batman ... who do you have in mind ?

 

[95blues]

Haven't got a bad list and we aren't a bad team, just need to fill in the holes.

Add a couple of good small forwards and quick, tough, skilled centermen and we will challenge for the top of the ladder but our game plan needs to develop as well.

Things could click very quickly for us next season, expecting a very serious Carlton outfit by the middle of next season.

Yeah i kind of agree with this.

I don't think the list is bad, we just don't really get even 70% commitment from the 22 on game day. They pick their moments a little too much and still play with self preservation in mind "as long as my man doesn't get it, ive done my job".

I still feel like they never come to the centre bounce ready to play to win either. They look unsure and until they see a few things go their way they play passively. All of a sudden they get 2 goals back to back and realise they can compete and things start to turn.

 

[95blues]

Yes, but that's beside the point, the 'softness' (with a few exceptions) isn't a trait of the players in isolation, it's the lack of grit in the playing list on the whole. We've spent too much time trying to fit square pegs into round holes (so to speak) and not nearly enough in the acquisition of quality for the sake of quality.

Our drafting has very much leant towards "smooth/skillful" type guys, while believing we can find smart/hard footballers anywhere else.

 

[Foucault1989]

We are so hard to get an accurate read on, partly because we have a few guys playing out of position. From next year, the 2015 draftees (Weiters, McKay, Kennedy, Curnow, Cunners and JSOS) will be in their sixth season, SPS, Setterfield l, Fish and Willamson will be in their 5th and Dow, O Brien and TDK in their 4th year.

Plus Marchbank, Plowman, Walsh, Gibbons, Cripps, Martin, Jones and Docherty.

Stoker, Kemp and Philip can have q development year

They can no longer be considered "kids" and need to step up and be consistent AFL footballers or move on. On paper, we have enough talent, but we lacked consistency within games. We cannot stand for letting teams kick 5 unanswered goals within quarters.

We could still do with some quality mature players. I'm not sold on Papley because of the cost, but maybe we have enough kids and need to go all out for guys who can add value straight away. Willams also a need for some additional skill, run and experience. I'd also love someone like Narkle to add another string to our midfield.

In short, over the offseason I want us to develop into tough, uncompromising and ruthless footballers who are fit and motivated. I would like us to play free, fast flowing football and for us to develop some mental fortitude.

A lot to ask for I know.

 

[gbatman]

You’re using a lot of plurals there Batman ... who do you have in mind ?

Hoping for an influx of good players from external and internal sources.

Charlie Curnow back is huge. Jack Silvagni would have been really handy for us this season. Underrated tough and smart player who can give us a midfield chop out. Marchbank fit and firing would be nice. Kemp will be terrific for us. Newman better than handy. Macreadie can play if he stays fit.

Dow, O'Brien, TDK, Stocker, Ramsay, Philp, Honey, Owies and Cottrell. We'd be dreadfully unlucky if we didn't find that some of them can really play come next season.

As for external recruits...

OR has mentioned some players who would be terrific next season here...

Terrible day, lots to work on, but no surprise.

Significant insight into several players and their future at Carlton over the last several weeks.

Extra support around Teague is vital.

Might be time for Levi, he can’t play forward with Harry. He either slots into Jones’ role as needed or spends lots of time in the 2’s. He continually leads his man into the contest and congests Harry’s space & nullifies any advantage Harry has. Levi has been a solid citizen, but never more than that. Harry has all the attributes of being a franchise player.

McGovern knows how to play forward, taking his man and creating leads away from Harry. Re watch the match if you disagree. With Charlie back next season McGovern will be valuable as a 3rd tall.

Recruitment will focus on outstanding ball use, Williams and Witherden. Big bodied mids, Wines and Viney. No more “almost” players.

Our salary cap should be massively open and we should be able to retire players to make it even bigger. We're in a good place to bring players in. I think our team with a few really good additions to the midfield, forward line and maybe some to defence along with a more developed game plan, more maturity to our youth will be quite strong.

But it has to happen first.

 

[Kruezing]

Hoping for an influx of good players from external and internal sources.

Charlie Curnow back is huge. Jack Silvagni would have been really handy for us this season. Underrated tough and smart player who can give us a midfield chop out. Marchbank fit and firing would be nice. Kemp will be terrific for us. Newman better than handy. Macreadie can play if he stays fit.

Dow, O'Brien, TDK, Stocker, Ramsay, Philp, Honey, Owies and Cottrell. We'd be dreadfully unlucky if we didn't find that some of them can really play come next season.

As for external recruits...

OR has mentioned some players who would be terrific next season here...




Our salary cap should be massively open and we should be able to retire players to make it even bigger. We're in a good place to bring players in. I think our team with a few really good additions to the midfield, forward line and maybe some to defence along with a more developed game plan, more maturity to our youth will be quite strong.

But it has to happen first.

I hadn’t noticed OR’s post thanks for that ...

 

[chunkylover53]

serious question do we re-sign mcgovern?

he's not AFL standard in most areas. it's pretty simple.

he's holding up development of JSOS, TDK and potentially Kemp in that 3rd tall role. He's also no better on game-day than any of the 3 mentioned. But due to his salary and what we gave up for him in a high-profile trade, there's no doubt a pressure to play him and get the best out of him.

I'd rather see him off the list tbh. Sigh of relief for plenty involved. Mark that trade down as a loss and move on.

 

[mochacinolatte]

serious question do we re-sign mcgovern?

he's not AFL standard in most areas. it's pretty simple.

he's holding up development of JSOS, TDK and potentially Kemp in that 3rd tall role. He's also no better on game-day than any of the 3 mentioned. But due to his salary and what we gave up for him in a high-profile trade, there's no doubt a pressure to play him and get the best out of him.

I'd rather see him off the list tbh. Sigh of relief for plenty involved. Mark that trade down as a loss and move on.

Yeah, but wouldn't be offering a lot with performance he has had.

 

[FairKouta]

I was thinking about our list and where we are at but unless we can replace cripps in the midfield and be as strong a team then we aren’t going anywhere

 

[Beer n Skittles]

serious question do we re-sign mcgovern?

he's not AFL standard in most areas. it's pretty simple.

he's holding up development of JSOS, TDK and potentially Kemp in that 3rd tall role. He's also no better on game-day than any of the 3 mentioned. But due to his salary and what we gave up for him in a high-profile trade, there's no doubt a pressure to play him and get the best out of him.

TDK will be our no.1 ruck.

The other two have injury issues, although I'd prefer to see either of them out there at the moment

 

[Brackets]

If McGovern really is on $800k and is out of contract, silver lining is that's a lot of salary cap space with not many demanding significant pay rises. We'll probably throw most of it back his way though.

 

[chunkylover53]

TDK will be our no.1 ruck.

The other two have injury issues, although I'd prefer to see either of them out there at the moment

Pitto is only 24 and him and TDK will split the duties 50/50 whilst the other rests forward, I'd imagine. Gov gets in the way of that.

As does he get in the way of McKay, Curnow, Cripps resting forward, and basically anyone else in the vicinity.

Gov seems like a good laugh to have a beer with, and I'm sure he wants to be a good player but his body and mind are just too fragile. Some blokes have exceptional attributed but can't string them together, I think he's one of them, unfortunately.

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

Plain to see this year that the game has moved past most of our senior players.

Id be trying to bring in the likes of Merrett, Graham, Williams, Papley and Hopper. Not gonna get all of them obviously but find a way to get a few of them over.

We need to secure some really driven players who give their all every game. None of those players are the talents of Judd or Dusty etc, they arent even the best of their craft in the AFL. But they all give their absolute all every game.

We already have the 'talents' on our list to make a push. We have Walsh, Weiters, Setters, SpS, Charlie, Harry, Stocker, Kemp, Tdk, Cripps.

We need blokes who are going to get the rest of the team revved up and give their all. Guys like Graham may not be anything special but the bloke works his ass off every week. Papley might be contentious but he tries to light the fire and create every week. Williams might not be the best kick in the AFl but hes willing to take the game on and run every week. Hopper may not be the best inside mid in the comp but he bashes and crashes every week.

For me its plain to see its time to move the old guard on and try everything we can to get some of these unrelenting players into the club to surround these top talents we have lying in wait.

Theyve been some of our most loyal players, but they are no longer physically capable of doing what we need of them anymore. We should be giving them the send off they deserve when we play Brisbane. Casboult, Simmo, Eddie its time to move on.

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

It can change quickly. Just really need Curnow back. Setterfield and SPS types going from C+/B graders to B+/A graders. Players like Dow/LOB to go from not being up to it to being handy AFL players, we have over a dozen players in this boat who we need to improve us naturally from within.

Thinking back to that game against Geelong where we came out and our intensity was through the roof compared to seeing us today and other weeks is the most upsetting thing. It all comes back to leadership and we just don’t seem to have enough guys who want to get in amongst it and make a stand. I guess that’s why we hope like hell a guy like Stocker comes on because he actually might. it’s also the most difficult thing to ever get right when it comes to a list, Richmond were seen as mentally weak and lacking leadership right up until the end of 2016 and then ended up winning the premiership the next year. How the hell you do it? I have no idea but I hope like hell we can.