List Mgmt. 2020 List Management

[smashbox gill]

Apologies for the length of this post, but hopefully it will be seen as considered. I watch every single game regardless of result (that has been hard at times). I do not watch junior footy other than youtube clips so have no idea about those not playing regular footy. I watch 5-9 games per week depending on work/family. I really believe we are at a cross roads. We have the A grade talent on the list to build a real flag contender over the next 3 years. But we need to make some hard decisions. If I was in charge of reviewing the CFC to put in place a 3 year plan for a flag I would approach this offseason as follows:

Coaching Staff

I believe we have too many voices looking at the coaching structure and taking into account budget cuts.

I would setup like this:

Senior Coach - David Teague
Senior Assistant - [insert experienced coach - Choco, Voss etc]
Defence - Amos has done enough to keep this IMO
Midfield - we need a gun retired mid with some edge. Hodge would be ideal. Voss? Stanton should not be retained
Forward - we need a gun retired forward with tactical nous. Sorry Cam Bruce
Strategy & Scouting - looks at opposition teams etc. Need to do our research here
Development - Luke Power deserves more time

That means moving on Stanton, Bruce and Barker. The roles underneath these can be filled based on views of the existing team and what we can afford. I believe we need a dedicated mentor program for each player, where we pair them with a gun player from the last 10 years (any club). Pay said ex-player $10k per year to be available for calls, coffee etc. A voice away from the club. That $400k is a better use of funds than on two assistants.

Playing List

Retire - Kreuzer, Simpson & Betts - thanks guys. Amazing servants to the club. Eddie perhaps as forwards coach
Delist - Lang, Polson, BSOS (depending on internal feedback), Finbar (again subject to internal feedback), Goddard and Moore
Trade - Levi (free agent so sign and trade to Pies for a second or let walk), Kennedy and McGovern

Trade Period

Free Agents - Crouch and Williams. If fail on one of those look at Viney. We have the money. Spend it
Trade for - Graham (pick around 25 - try and get this through trading out a combination of Levi, Kennedy and/or McGovern) and Hatley (second round pick - perhaps from this year. Need to convince him not to go to SA)

2021 Plan

The three tall experiment is over. It makes us too easy to run off and with mobile KPFs like Curnow and McKay they need space. Our third tall is JSOS rotating with Cripps. We need more run.

Forwards:

JSOS McKay Hatley

Fisher Curnow Martin

Midfield:

DeKonning Cripps Crouch

Walsh Setterfield Curnow

Defence:

Newman Jones Plowman

Williams Weitering Docherty

Bench:

Gibbons, Graham, Cunningham and Pittonet

Why the forward line? - McKay and Curnow need space. Fisher and Martin crumb well. JSOS is a good mark for his size so can create mismatches. Hatley is the experiment as you would start him there with a view to working into the midfield. People like Owies, Honey and even Kemp can push for selection.

Why the midfield? - Cripps, Crouch and Walsh can all get 25+ possessions, which helps control play. Setters is growing and Curnow has runs on the board. This would be the first rotation. You can then shift Cripps forward 20% with SOS coming in or even Graham. Gibbons, Cunners, Martin and Hatley also rotate through giving us a good balance of runners and blockers. You then have people like SPS, Dow, Kemp, LOB, Stocker, Newnes etc competing for spots. I would hope very quickly SPS and Dow break into this side. Murphy can earn a spot.

Why the defence - Good mix of pace and run. Perhaps slightly small but if you have your ruck rest down there it would work. People like Kemp, Williamson, Macredie and Marchbank can push for selection.

I believe in playing Pittonet as a second ruck because it means we keep a genuine ruck on the ball every minute. We can use this to stretch teams with great number one rucks but no backup. Having a more mobile forward line allows this.

Obviously it won't all work out this way. We will likely miss Hatley but then a Dow or SPS comes in first up. You could move first rounders for Wines or Kelly (if available). But based on what I think is reasonably attainable, this is how I would run things.

I posted in the David Teague thread.

Senior Assistant: Brad Scott, Ross Lyon
Midfield Coach: Scott Burns, Robert Harvey (both could be midfield/senior assistant)
Forward: Not to sure but I noticed Playfair who we let go due to Covid was the swans forward line coach during there premierships

 

[BigBreakfast]

I would never play Pitto and TDK in the same team. Having a less than dangerous forward just gifts the opposition a spare defender, and if that's someone like Jeremy McGovern it will cost the game

If I could like this 100 times, I would. Pitto is next to useless outside bashing bodies in ruck contests. TDK number 1 with Pitto backup or rest. Cas is not done yet and has been better as the 2nd ruck. Other option might be H does the 2nd ruck chop out but he seems to be a bit kids gloves managed.

 

[The Return of the Paf]

Delist/Retire:
Lang
Betts
Simpson
O’Dwyer
Goddard
Moore
Owies
Macreadie

Trade:
Dow
Casboult
O’Brien
Marchbank
Murphy

we need a semi rebuild. I don’t think finals are on the cards until we get our lost balance right and our coaching panel sorted. A lot can happen quickly but we need to be ruthless with this list. If they aren’t contributing or have value get them out now.

Yep, we need another mini rebuild, which doesn't preclude any natural improvement that might/should occur in the short term. Having said that, I don't think Marchbank is going anywhere and Murphy would bring us b-all. A lot would depend on who we think we could get in trade and at the draft.

 

[BRADLESTICKS]

Can you explain the conflict to uneducated posters like myself? What is the relationship between Barker and Cain?

Barker and Liddle went to school together in the same year level, Let me also say I have no idea if Barker is a good, bad or average coach I think you have to be inside the club to know that, what I do know is the reason given for SOS getting the flick was a conflict of intrest with his sons on the list I was just commenting on another poster wanting to see Barker gone.

 

[DangerousD]

Barker and Liddle went to school together in the same year level, Let me also say I have no idea if Barker is a good, bad or average coach I think you have to be inside the club to know that, what I do know is the reason given for SOS getting the flick was a conflict of intrest with his sons on the list I was just commenting on another poster wanting to see Barker gone.

They did go to school together but that doesn’t equal a conflict of interest, they last went to school together 27 years ago, this doesn’t make them best friends.

Barker has been with us a long time and has served under many coaches, I have no idea if he’s any good but you would hope that if he’s crap, he would of been found out by now. I hope we get a higher profile stoppages or midfield coach, I just think saying Liddle wouldn’t move him on because they went to school together 27 years ago is a long bow to draw.

i have played football and cricket with a lot of people, some of them for over 20 years, I know them, they are/were teammates /acquaintances but that doesnt mean we are great mates or I’d give them a job or not move them on if needed.

time will tell though.

 

[Poorman53]

It is going to be a significant off season. I hope we are bold and brave in the decisions we make.

Teague is starting to come across as stubborn and playing favourites. Hope this is just him as an inexperience coach and will improve over time.

 

[Beer n Skittles]

JSOS has always added more in that role, i dunno why SOS was hell bent on getting a bloke to take his sons place.

It really was an odd decision to court McGovern

 

[La Dispute]

It really was an odd decision to court McGovern

Should really have read the tea leaves on his interest in joining.

Bloke was always after a big pay day and to be hidden behind two other key forwards.

I half expected his form to taper off, but nowhere near the extent it has. He’s a shell of the player he was in 2017.

 

[new_blue]

Betts should 100% be moved on but I rekon the thinking of the club would be that our footy department spending is going to get slashed hugely meaning we will naturally lose people in player development roles so having a guy like Betts on the list may Help out in that regard, we are just paying him out of the players salary cap rather then the footy department’s for him to be some sort of a development coach with playing secondary. ATM developing what we have is miles more important then another list spot. We have about 20 players on our list who’s games need help in their development and losing more people from the club involved in helping out in that area is dangerous and is naturally going to happen with the lower footy department cap.

Great post

 

[djholmes]

Trade or delist the following players that are getting game time:

Murphy
Simpson
Jones
E. Curnow
Casboult
Gibbons

You will see the above players are not young and they cannot kick the football save for Simpson who needs to retire because him and murphy have a loser mentality that losing is ok.

 

[Beer n Skittles]

Should really have read the tea leaves on his interest in joining.

Bloke was always after a big pay day and to be hidden behind two other key forwards.

I half expected his form to taper off, but nowhere near the extent it has. He’s a shell of the player he was in 2017.

Just didn't need a key/third forward. Don't see how anyone could look at our list at the time and decide that was the deficiency to fix

 

[La Dispute]

Just didn't need a key/third forward. Don't see how anyone could look at our list at the time and decide that was the deficiency to fix

IIRC the rationalising on our board was that you don’t knock back quality players if you’re 18th and they want to join.

I think we can thankfully now knock that tangled logic on the head.

 

[Beer n Skittles]

If I could like this 100 times, I would. Pitto is next to useless outside bashing bodies in ruck contests. TDK number 1 with Pitto backup or rest. Cas is not done yet and has been better as the 2nd ruck. Other option might be H does the 2nd ruck chop out but he seems to be a bit kids gloves managed.

It's a tough caper in the ruck, maybe giving TDK and Pitto each games throughout the year would work.
Pittonet certainly looked at his best when he first started in round 2 and tapered off as he was worn down.

I think at some point we should look to Harry to give the chopout in the ruck.

 

[Kreuuuzeurns]

IIRC the rationalising on our board was that you don’t knock back quality players if you’re 18th and they want to join.

I think we can thankfully now knock that tangled logic on the head.

We wouldn’t be having these conversations if he was still the player he was when he came across.

His 2019 was actually quite promising.

 

[FairKouta]

Trade or delist the following players that are getting game time:

Murphy
Simpson
Jones
E. Curnow
Casboult
Gibbons

You will see the above players are not young and they cannot kick the football save for Simpson who needs to retire because him and murphy have a loser mentality that losing is ok.

Gibbons ed curnow and jones are walk up starts in our team unless we trade in better replacements

 

[choo]

Betts should 100% be moved on but I rekon the thinking of the club would be that our footy department spending is going to get slashed hugely meaning we will naturally lose people in player development roles so having a guy like Betts on the list may Help out in that regard, we are just paying him out of the players salary cap rather then the footy department’s for him to be some sort of a development coach with playing secondary. ATM developing what we have is miles more important then another list spot. We have about 20 players on our list who’s games need help in their development and losing more people from the club involved in helping out in that area is dangerous and is naturally going to happen with the lower footy department cap.

That is exactly what hawthorn are doing with Burgoyne. 6-8 games and development coach. With the huge cuts to soft cap it’s smart business.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Benaly28]

Trade or delist the following players that are getting game time:

Murphy
Simpson
Jones
E. Curnow
Casboult
Gibbons

You will see the above players are not young and they cannot kick the football save for Simpson who needs to retire because him and murphy have a loser mentality that losing is ok.

Keep Curnow and Gibbons.


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[THE_GUN]

Re: Mitch McGovern
I never understood what Carlton seen in him and why you traded for him in the first place, He was playing 3rd fiddle to Jenkins & Walker at their peak and getting the 3rd or 4th best defender with Lunch also in the team and apart from the Surname and his apperarance to his brother is nothing like his brother as a footballer but can mark in a similar way (just not anywhere near as good)

Carlton had as Fowards Curnow & McKay as well as Silvagni and Kennedy and he just didnt fit in that line up unless you got rid of the 2 players like Silvagni/Kennedy and that made your foward line slow/cumbersome and no pressure to keep the ball inside.

Why Keep him ? Whats to gain ? Whats his role ? What do you do with Silvagni/Kennedy if you keep him ?
Could that cash be used better elswhere Crouch/Williams ?

Just because a bad call was made no need to continue in hope it gets better will his currency improve after 2 years where he is older ?
Every club makes a bad trade (Yarran) just have to cut your losses and move on. Cant waste time trying to fit a ford wheel on a holden just go get the right wheel

 

[Brackets]

Another guy I think we could target is Jack Petruccelle from WC. Vic boy with elite speed, beautiful kick and struggling to get a game.

Disposal was poor on Thursday, though granted it's one game. That he avoided contact on more than one occasion however is reason enough to overlook.

 

[Navy_Blue91]

Dow, O'Brien, Stocker, Marchbank are trade bait

Probably all second rounders, but could compensate in a package for a Papley or Williams along with a first rounder

 

[I bleed Blue]

I don't give a toss who we bring in.

I just want a handfull of our own kids to take a giant leap forward.

Cunners- its time
Dow- has some good tools. Want a big offseason from him.
Setters- improved this year. Want anothrr big step next year.
Charlie- talent coming out of his ears. Get him on the park.
Fisher- release him
SPS- needs to lift
TDK- announce yourself
Stocker - push someone out od the side
Doc- year back from injury.. get your touch back
Phip/Honey/Owies- somone push betts out.

Our biggest improvements will come from within. Huge off season for the club. Very important some make the leap.

 

[The Bighouse]

serious question do we re-sign mcgovern?

he's not AFL standard in most areas. it's pretty simple.

he's holding up development of JSOS, TDK and potentially Kemp in that 3rd tall role. He's also no better on game-day than any of the 3 mentioned. But due to his salary and what we gave up for him in a high-profile trade, there's no doubt a pressure to play him and get the best out of him.

I'd rather see him off the list tbh. Sigh of relief for plenty involved. Mark that trade down as a loss and move on.

I’d be surprised if McGovern is OOC this year but a blessing if so (considerable $ shaving along with training, or trade if any takers), Pretty sure he was noted as 2022 with a whole list of longer term contracts we had signed on.
SEN also had Marchbank OOC last year which was reported elsewhere as 2020 (correct).

 

[Jimmyonesix]

With mcgovern staying and obviously in Teague plans I wouldn't be surprised silvagni look elsewhere/- would be a perfect fit for essendon or Melbourne

 

[therubbernub]

If the club isn't setting itself up to win a premiership in 2021, it is a failure.
Gain a couple of key players this year, get our guys fit and healthy and you just don't know should we get some continuity and a slice of luck with injury.

This year and its fallout has tipped many things around and we'd be smart to set ourselves up to take advantage of them.
Are we really that far behind Geelong? Brisbane? Port Adelaide? etc

This is a freak year for the obvious reason, but I feel that the club that gets its house in order best by years end, may surprise next year.

I agree.
What have we learned this year.
1. Our back 6 are very good: Weiters , Plowman, Jones, Williamson, Docherty, SPS, simpson
Time together has created synergies that will only get better.
We have Newman to come back on which will most likely release SPS or simmo if he retires.
But the key players Weiters, Jones, plowman, Docherty, williamson will only get better playing another season together.
Marchbank comes into play as well, but I am tipping a move to the wing for him as Newman slots straight back in to the D50.
For mine the defence is setup to be top 4 material.

2. Midfield: Here there are a lot of balls in the air waiting to come down. I see Walsh becoming a key player in our starting midfield. Perhaps he is replaced on the wing by Marchbank.
Setterfield has put his hand up this season and it is hard to see him going backwards next year. He is real support for Cripps.
Ed has gone up another level this year and is a lock.
That gives us a core of Cripps, Ed, Walsh, Setterfield.
We have Kemp ready to come in, but his position is far from clear. He could make a great forward - he can take a very good grab and is a good kick for goal. Exciting.
Will Murph go on? I think he is more than capable as a non key mid. He still has the run and can be very creative. He is no longer a frontline mid, but as a role player, its hard to argue against him
Dow , I have confidence in, he needs to have an uninterrupted preseason and start showing that he is improving. I think he will. But waiting in the wings are SPS, Kemp, Stocker , Kennedy and Cunningham.

3. Forwards: The return of Charlie , The continual development of Harry. Mitch -make or break?
Jack Martin. Thats a very solid 4 to build a forward line around.
Will we persist with Eddie?
We already have a few that can fill in the gaps- Zach, Cunners, Kennedy, Jack,Kemp, Gibbons

All in all , it seems obvious that an elite mid / forward like a jack martin would go a long way towards solving a few holes. Someone that could do, either role would give us max flexibility. Someone like a josh kelly or papley- prefer the JK option and I think he is gettable now with the GWS salary problems

 

[therubbernub]

Anyone get the chance to watch GWS last night? How did Williams go playing in the guts?

Hopefully our preoccupation with Papley has waned and we have set our sights out of contract B or C grade small forwards with potential. Think we have plenty of talent to develop from within this current playing group other than small crumbers with a nous for kicking goals.

Josh Kelly 10 inside 50s