List Mgmt. 2020 List Management

Remove this Banner Ad

Status
Not open for further replies.

Brutalitops

Premiership Player
Feb 6, 2016
3,522
6,812
AFL Club
Carlton
With Papley gone do you actually think we have the answer with our #25 as a small-fwd for a 2021 finals side?

Do we actually think Zac Fisher as a small fwd will get 35+ goals a season?
Absolutely. Has the skills and showed he was wily enough to outsmart defenders in congestion yesterday. To borrow a term from the NBA he was breaking ankles left, right, and centre.
 

mochacinolatte

Premiership Player
Mar 6, 2018
3,946
11,237
AFL Club
Carlton
Other Teams
Timberwolves(RIP), Baghdad Bombers
You dont trade players who have shown nothing. Put his name out there and see if there is any takers. WCE throw up Petrucelle then consider it. Doubt Freo would bother. Doubt he'd go to a non-Vic club that isn't back home. Future 2nd round pick perhaps if the next draft looks good?
How is trading Petrucelle going to the imrpove the list by trading Fisher? We can get there by trading our 2nd rounder for him.

Petrucelle has only played 4 games this year.
Petrucelle kicked 20 goals in 2019 which is averaged as a small forward.

Why bring up the future 2nd when no one has any idea the draft strength? You assuming that a future 2nd rounder will be small than Fisher.

People get so defensive of our list like its actually their own child or has delivered exceptional results. If there are no takers he comes back and tries to make a C-grade career as a small forward or he improves out of sight. He isn't a write off and with no Papley coming in he'll get 15-22 games next year for an at worst C-grade year or he improves out of sight and proves me wrong. But we have too many in the "needs to improve another 20%" category to actually take this 7-10 season and turn it into 12+ wins for finals in 2021
People aren't getting defensive, your suggestion of trading Fisher has no merit because it doesn't improve out list.
 

(Log in to remove this ad.)

Opine

Premium Gold
Aug 30, 2018
5,251
10,195
AFL Club
Carlton
They two are linked. There would be talks happening behind closed doors and it became obvious Carlton and Sydney were too far off on agreeing a deal to even ask the question this year and go through trade week with uncertainty and damaging his reputation with another failed trade. As Ricky Mott suggested last week Sydney wanted two first rounders plus one of Harry Charlie or TDK

It’s not like he was available and selected a different Vic club. His manager also said he would stay with Sydney for 2021 (not Swan for life).
I would have thought an effective negotiation strategy is to separate nomination from asking price, Get a commitment first, then deal with pragmatics. Ricky spoke about Sydney, no one spoke about whether Paps was sold on the Blues; per last year.
 

Opine

Premium Gold
Aug 30, 2018
5,251
10,195
AFL Club
Carlton
Could be a range of reasons but I wouldn’t instantly blame the CFC recruitment department.

Papley may simply want to stay in Sydney. He’s said “no” to leaving Sydney, not “no” to Carlton specifically.




Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com
Yes, indeed it could be a multitude of reasons.
 

BlueBlood15

Senior List
May 25, 2020
223
1,000
AFL Club
Carlton
Even though I really wanted him, Papley was going to cost a fortune in trade capital. Our time to get the trade done was last year.

In a way, despite how much we need someone of his ability and age in that position, I'm ok with moving onto other targets because I felt we may have had to overpay a lot due to his weird contract situation.
I agree with this.

Now we need to pivot to other less expensive options. There are players available for the right price if we pull the right levers. We should look at a Lonie, Sexton, Bruest type if the price is right. We should also look to the state leagues for the best mature small forward. Eagles plucked Ryan from the WAFL 3 years ago and that was a master stroke. Whoever we pick doesn’t have to be that good but they need to be able to put on significant pressure. Let Eddie develop them next year. He’s contracted in 2021 for an off field role. We should leverage his knowledge in developing the next small forward.
 

dylan_mike

Team Captain
Mar 18, 2008
374
136
Torquay
AFL Club
Carlton
Other Teams
Carlton
.

He's too small for a modern-day midfielder. Same as SPS.

Look at Ports midfield - Boak, Rockliff, Wines. Richmonds - Dusty, Prestia, Graham, Cotchin. All big agile bodies. Fish is 177cm ffs, how is he meant to line up against those blokes and have an impact? He got moved from the midfield because he's too small in the modern era, simple. He needs to re-invent himself, which he is.

Imagine lining up in a final against someone like the Dogs and Fish is standing next to Bont or Macrae, I mean seriously.
Too small?Isn't the best mid in the comp only 177cm? Lachie Neale, Zorko is small,- Sam Mitchell was pretty small. They don't have the brute strength of the big lads but they are much more agile and usually much quicker to react. Nothing wrong with rotating more agile players through the midfield.

Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk
 

chunkylover53

Norm Smith Medallist
Aug 13, 2008
5,780
11,850
From Where You'd Rather Be
AFL Club
Carlton
Too small?Isn't the best mid in the comp only 177cm? Lachie Neale, Zorko is small,- Sam Mitchell was pretty small. They don't have the brute strength of the big lads but they are much more agile and usually much quicker to react. Nothing wrong with rotating more agile players through the midfield.

Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk
Lachie Neale is literally 10kg heavier than Fisher will ever be. Ditto Mitchell. Completely different players.
 

Blue__Balls

Norm Smith Medallist
Aug 22, 2014
9,263
28,439
AFL Club
Carlton
I can't say that I'm disappointed at Paps not wanting to join the Blues. But it's necessary to ask why? was our newly formed crack recruiting committee unimpressive in its pitch? I'll have to ponder this for a little while. I'll be back.
Hahahahahaha!

You're kidding, right?

All along it's been "we shouldn't bother with Papley, let him stay in Sydney or piss off to Essendon".

And now that he's confirmed as staying in Sydney it's "looks like our recruiting team weren't good enough to get him".

Spare me.
 

Cripptonite

Team Captain
Sep 11, 2016
386
1,698
AFL Club
Carlton
I would have thought an effective negotiation strategy is to separate nomination from asking price, Get a commitment first, then deal with pragmatics. Ricky spoke about Sydney, no one spoke about whether Paps was sold on the Blues; per last year.
Completely understand in a normal trading environment. Unfortunately Sydney held all leverage in negotiations considering Papley is contracted for a few years. Players and managers are more reluctant to go public with “nominations” these days because of the damage to a players rep/brand if a deal falls through. For example Daniher, Gibbs, Papley having to deal with intense media scrutiny and supporter vitriol in some cases.
 

(Log in to remove this ad.)

La Dispute

La Dispute
Jul 14, 2005
12,022
15,836
AFL Club
Carlton
Other Teams
Manchester City, Boston Bruins
I'm also hating Fisher sitting on a forward flank. He's an elite ball user and excellent in traffic, and we have zero forward connection as it stands, yet we're trying to shoehorn him as small forward? It beggars belief.

Fisher can no doubt pinch hit in a pocket. We know what his goal sense and vision around 50 is like, but we're wasting him running around in the forward line. He needs to be up the field.
 

Blue__Balls

Norm Smith Medallist
Aug 22, 2014
9,263
28,439
AFL Club
Carlton
Chanel 7 saying Saturday will be Simmo’s last game
Dig up my Kreuzer post.
[Copy + Paste]

Time is right on this one. Need to let these blokes go and set the expectation that the younger group can't hide behind them anymore.

Reckon 2021 will be Murph's last year.
Probably 2022 for Ed (he'll be fit enough to go on, but we'll have 2 more years experience in Cripps, Setters, Walsh and all our younger mids).

Immense respect for Simmo and what he's given the club. ******* gutted we couldn't deliver some finals action to see him off. But the call had to be made if we want to progress.
 

Opine

Premium Gold
Aug 30, 2018
5,251
10,195
AFL Club
Carlton
Hahahahahaha!

You're kidding, right?

All along it's been "we shouldn't bother with Papley, let him stay in Sydney or piss off to Essendon".

And now that he's confirmed as staying in Sydney it's "looks like our recruiting team weren't good enough to get him".

Spare me.
That's a lazy argument; one which I preempted and addressed within my initial post. Whether I wanted him or not isn't relevant to the question of whether he wanted us
 

chunkylover53

Norm Smith Medallist
Aug 13, 2008
5,780
11,850
From Where You'd Rather Be
AFL Club
Carlton
I disagree, it's not hard to put a few extra If its required. Anything to suit your narrative I guess.

Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk
Cool if you want Fisher to put on 10kg you reckon he's going to keep that leg speed which is his main attribute?

It's actually incredibly hard to put on that much weight without any fat, if it were easy, he'd be heavier than 75kg by now.
 

Cripptonite

Team Captain
Sep 11, 2016
386
1,698
AFL Club
Carlton
Chanel 7 saying Saturday will be Simmo’s last game
😭 Hope not but all signs point to that. In my opinion he is still contributing the most when compared with our older brigade. Absolute legend of the club is Simmo.

I think his retirement would point to us having some sort of indication or commitment from Zac Williams who is as good of a replacement as we will get.

We will have plenty of cap space to attack the trade period with no Papley Kreuze Simmo potentially Betts. We are also able to pay 105% of the cap next year.
 

HARKER

Hall of Famer
Oct 15, 2008
49,918
81,070
Melbourne
AFL Club
Carlton
I'm also hating Fisher sitting on a forward flank. He's an elite ball user and excellent in traffic, and we have zero forward connection as it stands, yet we're trying to shoehorn him as small forward? It beggars belief.

Fisher can no doubt pinch hit in a pocket. We know what his goal sense and vision around 50 is like, but we're wasting him running around in the forward line. He needs to be up the field.
Get used to it because there is no way known we can fit in all the mids we have, into our starting line-up

If we do acquire another senior midfielder via the trade period, our principle starting mids will likely be; Cripps, New Player, Setterfield, Walsh and ECurnow.
Where the hell are SPS, Fisher, Dow, Kemp, Philp, Stocker etc going to go?

There's a lot to work out and I know that this player will be great.....and that player will be great....but the balance has to be right and we have to play players where they perform best, as otherwise we'll manufacture ourselves a terrible domino set.
If we don't move any players off, we'll see a lot of premium picked mids spending plenty of time in the 2's.....developing. Yeah right....developing. :)
 

mochacinolatte

Premiership Player
Mar 6, 2018
3,946
11,237
AFL Club
Carlton
Other Teams
Timberwolves(RIP), Baghdad Bombers
Cool if you want Fisher to put on 10kg you reckon he's going to keep that leg speed which is his main attribute?

It's actually incredibly hard to put on that much weight without any fat, if it were easy, he'd be heavier than 75kg by now.
Should be playing the role Macrae does at the doggies, but thats my opinion.
 

Aphrodite

Moderator
Aug 26, 2004
75,871
110,806
CHANEL BOUTIQUE!
AFL Club
Carlton
Other Teams
"Goddess"
Yes I know I know it's Tom Browne ...

Nothing official from the Club!







Carlton are set to farewell Kade Simpson as the club faces a difficult decision on celebrated forward Eddie Betts.

7NEWS.com.au sources have indicated the 36-year-old Simpson’s career will come to a close on Saturday night.
He is due to play his 342nd AFL game when the Blues take on Brisbane at the Gabba.
 

mochacinolatte

Premiership Player
Mar 6, 2018
3,946
11,237
AFL Club
Carlton
Other Teams
Timberwolves(RIP), Baghdad Bombers
Get used to it because there is no way known we can fit in all the mids we have, into our starting line-up

If we do acquire another senior midfielder via the trade period, our principle starting mids will likely be; Cripps, New Player, Setterfield, Walsh and ECurnow.
Where the hell are SPS, Fisher, Dow, Kemp, Philp, Stocker etc going to go?

There's a lot to work out and I know that this player will be great.....and that player will be great....but the balance has to be right and we have to play players where they perform best, as otherwise we'll manufacture ourselves a terrible domino set.
If we don't move any players off, we'll see a lot of premium picked mids spending plenty of time in the 2's.....developing. Yeah right....developing. :)
Should be similar to the Doggies midfield, except none of our mids can kick goals (beside walsh)

 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Top Bottom