List Mgmt. 2020 List Management

[HARKER]

I'm not worried or concerned about this -- I'd much rather have the problem of too many good players than too few. And if I'm wrong and we end up keeping everyone we want to keep, then I'll be pleasantly surprised.

That's the thing though. We have through SOS's tenure added a lot of high end talent and by weight, particularly in the midfield.

Not all will find a place in our main side as things go along, trading out to advantage makes for prudent list management.
Hanging onto quality players that may yet become 'emergencies' for our team is simply foolish and makes for poor list management.
We have to be prepared to let go of types we may find we don't need for types we do. This should make for common sense and practical list management.

It's really not a difficult sum to add up.

 

[Arr0w]

That's the thing though. We have through SOS's tenure added a lot of high end talent and by weight, particularly in the midfield.

Not all will find a place in our main side as things go along, trading out to advantage makes for prudent list management.
Hanging onto quality players that may yet become 'emergencies' for our team is simply foolish and makes for poor list management.
We have to be prepared to let go of types we may find we don't need for types we do. This should make for common sense and practical list management.

It's really not a difficult sum to add up.

Again, in 1 - 3 years time

Plowman Weitering Marchbank
Docherty Macreadie/BSOS Williamson
Walsh Cripps Setterfield
Martin Charlie Cuningham
Fisher McKay McGovern

TDK Kemp Stocker

LOB SPS Silvagni Dow

EMG : Newman Cottrell Kennedy Newnes Gibbons Lang Ramsay Philp Honey Pittonet

Which mid will be squeezed out Harks?

 

[Arr0w]

Again, in 1-3 years time things will change, as they invariably do, so saying look at me now, may not amount to how you will look tomorrow
Even without SOS, I doubt the CFC will sit on its hands because all the works is done and if they do.....then we may not be doing it right.

Clubs will start gunning for players on our list that SOS has assembled and some will take the bait and some will be let go, because better alternatives present.

I don't see any mystery nor conspiracy theory associated as you have claimed.
Not sure how you've been seduced into this lack of critical thinking. Who took you down this road?

Harks, I have already illustrated that flag winning sides have not suffered by losing a couple of best 22, while the majority are fringe players. We have yet to make finals, nor is it a fate of compli that we will this year

Have also provide examples of mids playing other roles

Really bewildered by your thought process

 

[therubbernub]

Cripps, Setterfield, Petrevski-Seton, Dow, Walsh, Stocker, Fisher, Kennedy, Kemp, Philp.

Cripps- MF lock
Setterfield MF lock
SPS HB if cant be fitted into MF
Dow MF lock
Walsh MF lock
Stocker HB if cant be fitted into MF
Fisher HF if needs be
Kennedy Forward
Kemp- utility
Philp- too early to tell

I dont see that group necessarily ALL having to play Midfield

 

[Arr0w]

Cripps- MF lock
Setterfield MF lock
SPS HB if cant be fitted into MF
Dow MF lock
Walsh MF lock
Stocker HB if cant be fitted into MF
Fisher HF if needs be
Kennedy Forward
Kemp- utility
Philp- too early to tell

I dont see that group necessarily ALL having to play Midfield

Yeap, spot on

 

[therubbernub]

It was interesting to read in the Riley Beveridge article on the AFL website that Marchy is in the top 5 runners at the club. Terrific footballer with terrific athleticism. I'm pretty sure we'll create a space for him in the team, when he's ready to go.

Thats why he could find his way onto the wing- he is ideally suited. Even if his best place is in defence, we might be better served with Jones in his place as interceptor and Caleb on the wing.

 

[blue_trinity]

Again, in 1-3 years time things will change, as they invariably do, so saying look at me now, may not amount to how you will look tomorrow
Even without SOS, I doubt the CFC will sit on its hands because all the works is done and if they do.....then we may not be doing it right.

Clubs will start gunning for players on our list that SOS has assembled and some will take the bait and some will be let go, because better alternatives present.

I don't see any mystery nor conspiracy theory associated as you have claimed.
Not sure how you've been seduced into this lack of critical thinking. Who took you down this road?

Will we lose players due to clubs throwing big money at them? Possibly.

will we lose players because they are fed up with not being played in their preferred position? Doubt it

don’t think we’ll lose any decent players to opportunity in the 1s either tbh. Maybe the odd fringe player that can see the writing on the wall perhaps.

 

[Accidental genius]

If we bring in a papley and/or an elite midfielder over the next 2 years it will lessen opportunity for a couple of our existing players. So it’s possible that we may lose players. It happens all the time. We are no different.

 

[Stefchook]

That's why he could find his way onto the wing- he is ideally suited. Even if his best place is in defence, we might be better served with Jones in his place as interceptor and Caleb on the wing.

I think it's an option. But I suspect we've got better options, in terms of finding the ball and delivering it forward.

 

[Blue__Balls]

I think it's an option. But I suspect we've got better options, in terms of finding the ball and delivering it forward.

This.

It'd be like finding another gun small defender who displaced Plowman, but then instead of dropping Plow we move him to a secondary position on-ball and drop Setterfield instead (sorry Lachie - you're just an easy example, I don't want you to go anywhere).

Marchbank is a good defender, potentially a reeeaaalllly good defender. But if we end up with heaps of really good defenders, that doesn't make it good idea to plonk Marchy on a wing just cause we want him in the side, at the expense of a genuine, quality winger.

Gonna say it again - Marchy will be our Schoenmakers. Talented player, but injuries kept him out of the side and in his absence the team built continuity without him. Became a versatile option and played an important role for the club, but won't be remembered as one of the core players of the "dynasty".

 

[ferrisb]

I think Kennedy might surprise as a medium forward.

Wouldn't shock me to see Levi, McGovern, McKay, Kennedy, Betts and Martin round 1 as our forward line

2 KPFs
2 med fwds
1 small fwd
1 mid-fwd

 

[ferrisb]

I think you play about 10-12 mids in the 22 each week (this includes 8-10 specialist mids plus some mid-HBF, fwd-mid hybrids).

Given injuries, this probably stretches the need to have about 15 AFL-quality mids at any one time. Plus you can always carry a few kids who are (patiently enough) waiting in the wings.

So....I think we can carry up to around 18 decent mid candidates on the list (ignoring Murph/Ed) before we start to worry about some getting squeezed out.

 

[therubbernub]

I think it's an option. But I suspect we've got better options, in terms of finding the ball and delivering it forward.

No doubt we have many other options for the wings. It remains to be seen whether Caleb is behind those options in terms of finding the ball and delivering it. He is strong overhead- probably stronger than most other options you are referring to. Thats an advantage- as is his running ability. Richo did very well at the Tigers playing a "wing" .

 

[Sector 7G]

No doubt we have many other options for the wings. It remains to be seen whether Caleb is behind those options in terms of finding the ball and delivering it. He is strong overhead- probably stronger than most other options you are referring to. Thats an advantage- as is his running ability. Richo did very well at the Tigers playing a "wing" .

Richo might have got a lot of the ball but it didn't translate into the Tigers becoming a successful football team (much the same as when Reiwoldt did the same at the Saints). Playing a KPP on the wing is possibly the most over rated tactic in AFL football

 

[HereComesJuddy]

Me when Arrow or Harks post in this thread...

 

[HARKER]

I think you play about 10-12 mids in the 22 each week (this includes 8-10 specialist mids plus some mid-HBF, fwd-mid hybrids).

Given injuries, this probably stretches the need to have about 15 AFL-quality mids at any one time. Plus you can always carry a few kids who are (patiently enough) waiting in the wings.

So....I think we can carry up to around 18 decent mid candidates on the list (ignoring Murph/Ed) before we start to worry about some getting squeezed out.

Can the TPP carry 18 decent mids though? Balance, balance and then some more balance.

Anyway, nothing is proven until it's proven. Some will side one way and others another. In the meantime.........let's wait and see.

 

[therubbernub]

Richo might have got a lot of the ball but it didn't translate into the Tigers becoming a successful football team (much the same as when Reiwoldt did the same at the Saints). Playing a KPP on the wing is possibly the most over rated tactic in AFL football

I think there were more than a few other missing pieces at the tigers at the time. That doesnt negate it as a tactic

 

[CJMB]

Can the TPP carry 18 decent mids though? Balance, balance and then some more balance.

Anyway, nothing is proven until it's proven. Some will side one way and others another. In the meantime.........let's wait and see.

Roughly 2 from each draft class (spreads a little thinner at the top age brackets approaching 30-odd), the youngest 4 would still be on base salary, the next 4 shouldn't be on crazy money yet as ideally we're at a position where it takes a really special kid to regularly get selected in their first few years. Hopefully a rookie or two in there as well, further keeping the cost down

 

[Robertio]

I think you play about 10-12 mids in the 22 each week (this includes 8-10 specialist mids plus some mid-HBF, fwd-mid hybrids).

Given injuries, this probably stretches the need to have about 15 AFL-quality mids at any one time. Plus you can always carry a few kids who are (patiently enough) waiting in the wings.

So....I think we can carry up to around 18 decent mid candidates on the list (ignoring Murph/Ed) before we start to worry about some getting squeezed out.

Absolutely spot on.

 

[therubbernub]

Absolutely spot on.

Thats doable if you have some fyffe cripps types who can go forward. But IMO you need more than 4 talls

 

[Sector 7G]

I think there were more than a few other missing pieces at the tigers at the time. That doesnt negate it as a tactic

And one of those key missing pieces was a dominant key forward because Richo was chasing kicks up the ground in non dangerous positions.

A player like that will attract the ball even if they aren't in the best position.

Until the tactic is proven to result in team success I am not going to rate it.

 

[Stefchook]

No doubt we have many other options for the wings. It remains to be seen whether Caleb is behind those options in terms of finding the ball and delivering it. He is strong overhead- probably stronger than most other options you are referring to. Thats an advantage- as is his running ability. Richo did very well at the Tigers playing a "wing" .

It's his ability to deliver the ball to advantage in overcrowded forward lines that might count against him.

 

[therubbernub]

And one of those key missing pieces was a dominant key forward because Richo was chasing kicks up the ground in non dangerous positions.

A player like that will attract the ball even if they aren't in the best position.

Until the tactic is proven to result in team success I am not going to rate it.

I think we can agree , that we are not short of either key forward or key backs. What I am suggesting , is trying to fit Caleb and our other back talls into the same team. Jones weitering plowman are defenders . Marchbank is competing with Jones and plowman and those 2 arent as flexible as marchbank.
" Use them or Lose them"

 

[therubbernub]

It's his ability to deliver the ball to advantage in overcrowded forward lines that might count against him.

I dont disagree. That may be his Achilles heel. But he could surprise. he has never played in open space before- always being under pressure in defence

 

[CJMB]

I think you play about 10-12 mids in the 22 each week (this includes 8-10 specialist mids plus some mid-HBF, fwd-mid hybrids).

Given injuries, this probably stretches the need to have about 15 AFL-quality mids at any one time. Plus you can always carry a few kids who are (patiently enough) waiting in the wings.

So....I think we can carry up to around 18 decent mid candidates on the list (ignoring Murph/Ed) before we start to worry about some getting squeezed out.

Thats doable if you have some fyffe cripps types who can go forward. But IMO you need more than 4 talls

Ferris was talking about 10-12 mids in the the match day team but around 18 in the list.

Playing 18 at a time would be ridiculous... here's one attempt:

FB: Stocker, J Silvagni, Williamson
HB: Docherty, WEITERING, SPS
FOL: KREUZER, Murphy, Curnow
C: Setters, Cripps, Walsh
HF: Martin, MCKAY, Cuningham
FF: Fisher, Kennedy, Gibbons
INT: CASBOULT, Newnes, Dow, O'Brien

Kreuz ruck, Weit back, Mckay fwd and Levi utility tall. Kennedy FF, Jack FB. Tried not to include HBFers but couldn't help myself to add Doc & Willo… could replace them with 2 of Philp/Lang/Ramsay if you really want to...

I really went off on a tangent there. To summarise, Ferris was saying 18 mids in the list but about 7 less on match day.