List Mgmt. 2020 List Management

[blue_trinity]

We may not but you have to think of it this way -
Players do get paid on performance. Dow playing midfield may have an x value but playing forward only has a y value.

I see us losing some of our mids for opportunity/money over the course of the next couple of years and I don't mind that as long as we trade up to advantage that situation and I'm not suggesting that we'll lose Cripps or Walsh, but Dow, Kennedy, O'Brien, Fisher and SPS may keep an eye open to possibilities.

The mids I think we'd really want to hang onto are Setterfield and Stocker and of course Kemp and Philp, given they'll be contracted and a potential to fulfil.

Not really sure where you’re going with this? That they’ll leave cause even though they’re playing games, they’ll make more money playing more midfield minutes at another club?

Again, I can’t see us losing any of the players mentioned for lack of being selected.
SPS potentially for other reasons, but still think it’s relatively unlikely. Kennedy perhaps, if he stagnates as a mid/fwd and a team like Essendon come knocking... again, unlikely but may... not a huge loss regardless, and not really for the reasons you’ve specified.
The others I don’t agree are in any danger of not fitting into a potential future line up whatsoever.

People have brought up gws as a case study. But gws are unique and incomparable. They lost players firstly due to having to cut into an extended list. And secondly due to players returning to play in their home state for a team that has history and a meaningful existence.
It’s a completely different lifestyle to be drafted and have to live in western Sydney, playing for a club that has little relevance, in front of a none existent crowd.
Very few of their players left for more opportunity in their preferred position anyway. And the ones that may have said that (Setterfield?) I don’t really believe that that was the real reason anyway. What’s a 19/20 year old really going to say? It’s either homesickness, or lack of opportunity, when imo the real reason is, it just sucks playing there.

Devon Smith is the only one that really sticks out because he wanted to play more midfield, and in reality, he’s an ok mid, but he’s better off a hff anyway.

Who was the last Victorian player to leave to due to lack of playing in their preferred position anyway? (Genuine question)

 

[blue_trinity]

Newnes is on our list isn't he?
Wasn't he 'disappointed' for being played away from where he was most effective? It happens a lot and it comes about for teams seeing potential in players that are seen to not be maximising their ability.

Like I said; I can only state what I see coming up for us and only time will prove it to be right or wrong.

The other thing is we have to be clear on what we call midfielders.
I call players that win their own ball, start in the middle and play between the arcs to be genuine midfielders.
To me at least, I'd sooner call guys like O'Brien, Cuningham, JSilvagni, Martin, Docherty, Williamson, Newman, Newnes etc flankers.

They're not the players you'll rely on to extract the ball out of the centre repeatedly, as others will be preferred.......genuine midfielders.

Newnes is one i guess, but jeez, he was just about as close to being delisted without being delisted as you can get, wasn’t he?
I’m still not convinced it “happens a lot”.

 

[Arr0w]

Players move all the time and just because the motives aren't presented on face value, they are there.

Carlton has recruited two midfielders alone in Kennedy and Setterfield form GWS.
Had have Kennedy known there were regular games ahead of him, would have he left? Setterfield?
All one has to do is to place oneself in the same situation and ask; What would I and my manager want to do?

We are nearing the situation GWS was in and to suggest that it's all so different is somewhat folly as we're all now operating within the same parameters via list size and TPP. There are no more favours for GWS and the list has largely been whittled back and settled, whereas our list is nearing theirs in potential.

Anyway, it's all in the realm of possibilities and no one way will be the right way, but when our youth starts looking elsewhere for opportunity, I won't be surprised.

Now that is folly

We are nothing like GWS, who have only come into line in 2019 both with list numbers and salary cap.

They were massively overpaying players, due to TPP and for retention

What I dont understand is why you persist in using GWS as a comparison, rather than the likes of the Hawks, Tigers, Lions, all of which went through a rebuild, rather than a unique expansion club

 

[Stamos]

Now that is folly

We are nothing like GWS, who have only come into line in 2019 both with list numbers and salary cap.

They were massively overpaying players, due to TPP and for retention

No, they’ve had the sam salary cap and list numbers for the last 3 years. 2016 was their last year of concessions (unless you’re talking Coniglio’s unofficial extras).

 

[Arr0w]

What's GWS's TPP?
What's GWS's list size?
They're the same as ours aren't they?
We can't keep using the early leg up they had and utilised to advantage as something that's going to be a contributing factor for what they do for ever and a day.

Again, let's pick it up at years end, in the same way we picked up a. Carlton will not be looking for small forwards. b. Small forwards are over-rated. c. Clubs always select best available at drafts. etc etc. We'll see.

Have just stated that GWS had a bigger list and more TPP until it came back to the norm in 2019.

We never had their quality of draft picks

We were never an expansion club

You keep saying we will review it end of year, yet you keep bringing it up, so I will keep calling you on it

We secure 1 small forward who has 2 years max

Tigers GF, 17 goals, 2 from small forwards, overrated

We took 3 mids and a 3rd tall forward in the draft, no small forwards. Looks like best available again Harks

 

[Stamos]

Caddy would be another one who moved. Was getting a game at Geelong, was more appreciated at Richmond. It happens.

 

[Arr0w]

No, they’ve had the sam salary cap and list numbers for the last 3 years. 2016 was their last year of concessions (unless you’re talking Coniglio’s unofficial extras).

Go back and do some research Stamos

 

[Stamos]

Have just stated that GWS had a bigger list and more TPP until it came back to the norm in 2019.

Again, this is incorrect

 

[Stamos]

Go back and do some research Stamos

Seriously?

Redirect Notice

www.google.com.au

 

[Red Bull]

I see Caleb in direct competition with Plowman for a spot in our defence. Both versatile defenders who can play tall and small. Not sure our backline can carry both of themMy biggest concern with Marchbank is when he has ball in hand. Tends to hold up our defensive rebounds giving the opposition ample time to retreat into their defensive zones and his decision making is average at best. For these reasons would not play him on the wing. His best attribute is his mobility and intercept ability.

Agree with your summary.
Takes far too long to move the ball on.

 

[Stamos]

Agree with your summary.
Takes far too long to move the ball on.

You reckon that’s the player, or the way our midfield has run to make position over the last 3 years?

 

[thylacine60]

it's like one of those underground fires that no-one can put out.........

 

[Red Bull]

You reckon that’s the player, or the way our midfield has run to make position over the last 3 years?

The latter is definitely a factor no doubt.
Still, its been the same scenario for everyone but Marchy just seems to take forever.

 

[Arr0w]

We started from ground zero in 2015 via our rebuild, so the comparison with GWS stands stronger than for any comparison with Hawthorn etc........and getting back to the point being our midfield - We have a lot of premium picks that will not be able to co-exist over the course and some will look for opportunities elsewhere. To me this is clear and for you this is somehow muddy...but again, we'll see.

Best available? This again is folly and let me allow you to prove this to yourself; Where did you have Weightman? Where did you have Pickett?
Small forwards are over-rated but...and but again. Tell me what you said about just these two players alone. There may be something there for you.

So you don't want to leave it till the end of the year, you want to keep banging on about it every opportunity?

Lions were ground zero 2013, which superstar has been squeezed out wanting to play his preferred role? NONE

In your opinion some of our mids will be squeezed out, yet apart from an expansion club, there is no evidence of this happening anywhere else, mind you, we have yet to make finals

I have provided facts, rebuttal to your gut feel with no facts of it taking place at a non expansion club

I had Pickett as a 2nd rounder, Weightman wasn't in my top 30 and as it played out, 2 small forwards taken in the top 30, less than 10% of all players

List Mgmt. - Carlton's 2019 Draft Thread

Happy Draftmas, bitches!

www.bigfooty.com

But back to your suggestion that we were targeting small forwards, why didn't we draft one then?

Keep firing Harks and I will rebutt every scenario

 

[blue_trinity]

Players move all the time and just because the motives aren't presented on face value, they are there.

Carlton has recruited two midfielders alone in Kennedy and Setterfield form GWS.
Had have Kennedy known there were regular games ahead of him, would have he left? Setterfield?
All one has to do is to place oneself in the same situation and ask; What would I and my manager want to do?

We are nearing the situation GWS was in and to suggest that it's all so different is somewhat folly as we're all now operating within the same parameters via list size and TPP. There are no more favours for GWS and the list has largely been whittled back and settled, whereas our list is nearing theirs in potential.

Anyway, it's all in the realm of possibilities and no one way will be the right way, but when our youth starts looking elsewhere for opportunity, I won't be surprised.

You honestly think Setterfield wouldn’t have been getting games had he been fit?

Obviously players leave all the time, and obviously they have motives, just disagree they’re leaving due them not being played in their favoured positions

 

[Mr_Plow]

If this Moore guy wasn't good enough to get a game at Richmond, what makes anyone think he'd be able to crack the Carlton 22?

 

[The Bighouse]

If this Moore guy wasn't good enough to get a game at Richmond, what makes anyone think he'd be able to crack the Carlton 22?

Think he had a decent game against the NB’s at the ‘G last time around IIRC. Always helps...

 

[DirkDiggler]

You reckon that’s the player, or the way our midfield has run to make position over the last 3 years?

Its a combination but Caleb comes across like a procrastinator. Needs to have options run past him for handball receives. Definitely have him in my best team and think he has a lot more to offer than he has shown to date.

Similarly, Kade Simpson frustrates me with his kick ins. Takes way too long to kick the ball into play giving the opposition sufficient time to set up their defensive zone. Needs to be relieved of those duties.

 

[chipzac]

If this Moore guy wasn't good enough to get a game at Richmond, what makes anyone think he'd be able to crack the Carlton 22?

Yep, being delisted by the premiers maybe ain't that bad.
Webb wasn't good enough to be kept on the list at WB and Sturgess wasn't good enough to be picked up by any club even in the rookie draft.
In fact, I don't think there is anyone remaining who could put their hand up for our last list spot that hasn't been rejected in some way.
Like Webb, I think injuries may have played a part in Moore's delisting but if his body is right now, he may be worth a go.
I do like the look of him (what little I've seen).

 

[Blue__Balls]

Yep, being delisted by the premiers maybe ain't that bad.
Webb wasn't good enough to be kept on the list at WB and Sturgess wasn't good enough to be picked up by any club even in the rookie draft.
In fact, I don't think there is anyone remaining who could put their hand up for our last list spot that hasn't been rejected in some way.
Like Webb, I think injuries may have played a part in Moore's delisting but if his body is right now, he may be worth a go.
I do like the look of him (what little I've seen).

This.

Astounding that people seem to think we should be finding a Nat Fyfe-level footballer in the SSP.

It's the last-chance-saloon or an overlooked draftee, lower your expectations folks.

 

[true blue19]

If this Moore guy wasn't good enough to get a game at Richmond, what makes anyone think he'd be able to crack the Carlton 22?

If we pick up Moore it makes me think there is more going on with Curnow injury.

 

[DirkDiggler]

Just saw highlights of Callum in his under 18 days. Woeful kick. In my eyes should be overlooked

 

[Pafloyul]

How long will Curnow be out for and how long does a player need to miss to be put on the LTIL?

 

[Pafloyul]

If we pick up Moore it makes me think there is more going on with Curnow injury.

It's already been stated that he'll be out for half the season and it's not as if our other talls are exactly match fit at this stage. Bringing in another tall forward makes sense, even if the details aren't perfect.

 

[ferrisb]

If this Moore guy wasn't good enough to get a game at Richmond, what makes anyone think he'd be able to crack the Carlton 22?

Not sure if you've been to the main board recently, Plowy, but it appears Richmond's premiership side contained the 22 best players of all time.

Pretty sure...