List Mgmt. 2020 List Management

[DangerousD]

Last time I looked McGovern is going at 7.5 possessions per game this season.

Last time I checked SOS is going at 5.33.

 

[Obeanie1]

wouldnt do it if i was sydney. they dont need another player like blakey and mccartin as one of those "could be anything" players

And they certainly don't need to trade in a mid aged "once was a gun" who is always injured such as Daniher.

But they need tall's back and forward.

Actually don't understand TBH, when drafted aren't most players "could be anything" players.

Swans will not want a slow rebuild, their fan base isn't that patient. They need to stay competitive to keep members.

 

[FRUMPY]

Doing it on paper as opposed to?

We have been discussing at length how Jack fits in to the side, how Charlie fits in to the side, how Marchy fits in to the side, how Kemp next year will fit in to the side. I certainly hope a lot will miss out as I think we are too tall, hence the discussion.

Form should be the biggest factor well one of the biggest but I don’t think it is, forward line structure, cohesion and continuity are really important and I don’t see many coaches dropping players in and out of their preferred structure.

Then we go on to the another part of this which we have been discussing, most players do t want to wait for game in the VFL and hope for injuries to specific players so they can play, especially if they are 2nd or third in line, this is why I ask and why I’m bringing up who goes out and who comes in, so we can asses who’s in the VFL and if we are carrying too many of one sort and if we are, do they hold any value to help us get something else.

I love the idea of once being in the team it’s your spot to lose, so far this year a few players have continually been poor and haven’t lost their spot but the idea is good. Of course every team has injuries, some more than others, plan for the worst and hope for the best, still players won’t stick around and wait years for another player to retire or will be happy to play 2nds if there are other clubs willing to give them a go.

But you were saying next year if/when charlie comes back that Casboult doesnt get dropped for example - who knows if Casboult is the number 1, 2 or 3 forward by round 1 next year - he may very well be in the VFL come round 1

 

[CJMB]

Last time I looked McGovern is going at 7.5 possessions per game this season.

Our talls are hardly ball magnets in 2020, looking purely at season averages.

Levi 9.2
Mitch 7.6 (8.4 if you deduct his rd 8 game where he was injured early)
Harry 6.5
Jack 5.3 (7.5 if you deduct his rd 4 game where he was injured early)
Moore 3.0

 

[ItsAllAboutMe]

Start at $700 base, plus incentives

Where would $700k place him in order for Carlton.. Obviously behind Cripps.. But if we believe what is said that Charlie & Mitch are on $800k.. Who else would be infront of Zac? We allegedly had 1.2+ a year available for Shiel & Coniglio

 

[ItsAllAboutMe]

correct me if I am wrong but isn't Gov uncontracted at the end of the year.. I cant imagine he will be getting offered anything close to what we were paying to bring him across, could he be a trade option?

 

[DangerousD]

But you were saying next year if/when charlie comes back that Casboult doesnt get dropped for example - who knows if Casboult is the number 1, 2 or 3 forward by round 1 next year - he may very well be in the VFL come round 1

I think he will be in the VFL, I like the discussion around how the team will look going forward, what our best side looks like, There are Lots if players that people want in the side but not much talk of who they replace.

 

[Arr0w]

Where would $700k place him in order for Carlton.. Obviously behind Cripps.. But if we believe what is said that Charlie & Mitch are on $800k.. Who else would be infront of Zac? We allegedly had 1.2+ a year available for Shiel & Coniglio

A bit of that was taken by Martin

Expect retirements, delistings

 

[Ricky Mott]

Last time I checked SOS is going at 5.33.

2 games and 30secs

 

[ItsAllAboutMe]

A bit of that was taken by Martin

Expect retirements, delistings

With this years draft being a cluster**** i can see us encouraging guys that probably should retire.. Murph, Kruez, Simpson to play 1 more year..

 

[bigm386]

Mentioned this in the past, but surely in the off season we need to target 1 or two ruckman.

We seem to be very thin on rucks especially considering Kruzer's age and durability. Pittonet can't actually be dropped at the moment because the only other option is TDK who also has his own injury issues and is developing.

Would love to have a go at getting Callum Coleman-Jones from the Tigers. Would even consider making a play for Pruess who went to Melbourne and I still have no idea why! Sam Hayes is also interesting who went to Port.

 

[CJMB]

2 games and 30secs

Which is why I said that he goes up to 7.5 if you ignore his injury game. Similarly Gov goes up to 8.4 if you ignore his last game where he was off injured early.

The gist is that pointing at Gov and saying his 7.5/8.4 a game is too low is a bit rich when he's in the 3.7 disposal window between Harry (6.5) and Levi (9.2), along with Jack if you ignore his 3rd game. And none of our forwards are getting heaps of it.

Geez it'd be nice to have Charlie racking up his 12-20 each week....

 

[Aphrodite]

correct me if I am wrong but isn't Gov uncontracted at the end of the year.. I cant imagine he will be getting offered anything close to what we were paying to bring him across, could he be a trade option?

Contracted until end of 2023.

From memory he signed a 5yr deal.

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

I would be very surprised if he was on under $500,000

Yeh I’m obviously guessing but he was fairly young when he signed and only probably had one good season under his belt so I don’t think it would be anything over that. Some players for GWS are obviously getting under what people suspect because they are working to the same salary cap as everyone else so I would guess guys like him aren’t on what people expect.
It’s hard to believe we have paid at least 90% of what they have over the last 5 years.

edit I just read he is also an Unrestricted FA. Aidan Corr is restricted so I would imagine that he would probably be more likely to be on closer to $400k then $500k

 

[Jeremias]

Phillips wasn’t one of the guys I thought were very bad, he played semi regularly and I disagree with the justification that he and others allowed us to get Plowman cheaper, I don’t think we got a bargain.

So forget Phillips, similar could have been said for many others on that list.

With regards to Plowman, we got a versatile defender, a certain 150+ game player, a leader who was young and rated very highly internally at the time...for a second round pick.

Of course taking on those salary dumps were designed to allow us to get certain players cheaper than we otherwise would have been able to, Plowman included.

when I mentioned culture, I am referring to the the many times that I’ve read on here, the lack of care, effort displayed by some of the poor recruits over the past 5 years, the ones who know they’re not part of anything long term, it’s my opinion that bringing in lots of players and cutting lots of players, sometimes even the ones you have just recruited, would not be good for club culture.

Without labouring the point, I think this is a very long bow to draw and there's no clear link there.

Club culture is built over a long period of time, few of the players we brought across would have known with any certainty that they were only there for a year.

I don’t think it’s ignoring anything, the story and context you are talking about is largely exaggerated in my opinion and a justification that makes many feel better about getting a lot of these players. We don’t have to agree on this, but just because lots of people agree does not make your context or version of the story, the truth.

And just because we choose to ignore something or brush it off as an exaggeration, doesn't make it so.

There is a lot more to a complete list build than you seem to be suggesting.

I think it’s a lot more simple, SOS recruited these guys, he obviously really rated them, he picked a lot of them up with 1st round draft choices, he may have liked them as people and I think gambled by bringing them across, he gambled that more of them would pull their finger out at a new club or more would have a better injury run and make good on their talent.

Do you really think SOS expected the likes of Palmer, Smedts, Pickett etc. to perform as first round picks, because he had taken them in the first round previously?

Come on. SOS would have known as well as anyone that despite the talent they hadn't shown that at the level yet and were all facing uphill battles to show anything that closely resembled that.

And it would have been a complete bonus had they reached that level, which obviously they didn't.

If you're using some of your list spots for salary dumps, there's every reason to target youngish unfulfilled talent who may turn things around when given a second opportunity.

He also would have known that bringing them in would cost us 3/4 of **** all from a salary perspective (yes I know they cost a list spot but when you're rebuilding and building a core they're not as important) so the cost and risk of doing so was pretty much negligible.

SOS gambled on these guys but when the cost is virtually nothing and there's immediate benefit to doing it, that's a gamble well worth taking.

 

[norway blue]

Blakey from Sydney . On The Bus . Dropped this week . A good half forward .


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Jeremias]

Blakey from Sydney . On The Bus . Dropped this week . A good half forward .

Hasn't found his spot yet at AFL level and may not for a few more years yet, but he's rated extremely highly internally.

They'd ask for a fortune and certainly way more than what he is worth based on performances to date.

Reckon it'd just about be easier to get Papley out of them.

 

[Opine]

Last time I checked SOS is going at 5.33.

and?

 

[Jimmae]

What? He’s not good enough to be a ‘genuine backup’? Jesus Christ. If you could just run us through all the ‘backup’ ruckmen in the comp better than Pitto that would be great.

Ladhams, Hickey, Williams, Marshall, Zac Smith, McInerney, Archie Smith, Cameron.

Of those, not all of which would have been realistic given how much we're doubling down on TDK's ability at the position (which I don't agree with), probably just Archie Smith and Cameron, really.

From my point of view, it highlights how little investment there has been developing rucks, with Cameron being skipped over for 2 or 3 drafts, for example. If they're not seen as an extremely athletic at the position, they now tend not to get drafted unless they're physically good to go from day 1.

It's been absurd, but the trend appears to be changing.

 

[DangerousD]

2 games and 30secs

That’s why we use averages and that’s why I quote career averages, it smooths out any years affected by injury, games where they play a different role.

it gives a bigger sample size to compare

 

[DangerousD]

Yeh I’m obviously guessing but he was fairly young when he signed and only probably had one good season under his belt so I don’t think it would be anything over that. Some players for GWS are obviously getting under what people suspect because they are working to the same salary cap as everyone else so I would guess guys like him aren’t on what people expect.
It’s hard to believe we have paid at least 90% of what they have over the last 5 years.

edit I just read he is also an Unrestricted FA. Aidan Corr is restricted so I would imagine that he would probably be more likely to be on closer to $400k then $500k

both are restricted on footy wire and the roar

 

[DangerousD]

and?

If you lay the boot in to a player and reference specifically that he’s only averaging 7.5 disposals a game, then praise and talk up another as being his replacement Who averages 5, you look a little silly.

do you think I just made a statement about someone’s disposal without any reference?

 

[DangerousD]

Ok ow it’s been mentioned before but what would be the negatives of Ed transitioning to the small lockdown defender role?

He’s a great runner, decent pace, agile but more importantly, he has aggression, he tackles, he has a crack.

 

[Arr0w]

Ok ow it’s been mentioned before but what would be the negatives of Ed transitioning to the small lockdown defender role?

He’s a great runner, decent pace, agile but more importantly, he has aggression, he tackles, he has a crack.

His disposal

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

The sooner Ed is pushed out the team the better. Absolute champion of a man and very good contributor to the team but ideally someone like Stocker ups the anti and forces his way into the team over Ed. Same with Murph, same with Simmo, same with all our older players.

Until they get overtaken keep them where they do best, Ed tagging, Simmo off half back etc. Ed isnt a Pendles type who you want for class regardless of position, he's a workhorse. We'll be a better team if someone with the natural talents of SPS, LoB or Stocker break their way into the team