List Mgmt. 2020 List Management

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

Floppers aren't September footballers? Tell that to Joel Selwood who is well known for looking for high free kicks, yet is also acknowledge as one of the toughest players in the comp which you yourself just mentioned.

Bottom line is you trying to use the fact Papley flops a bit to justify your argument he's not a 'September footballer' and not worth pursuing doesn't really make any sense and is really showing bias...especially when you defend Cripps' flopping. As Sydney's best forward you don't think Papley gets manhandled and plays through adversity? Cmon. Give me some real logical reasons why Papley apparently isn't very good in your eyes.

Papley has 13 goals in 7 finals and all those finals were played in his first three seasons when he was a lesser player/kid. He has actually exceeded expectations in finals.
the reason he is such an attractive target is because he has all the traits to exceed in finals. He has that mongrel/tenacity that the majority of our list lack and which shines in big matches

 

[Jeremias]

He was serviceable. Lots of poor play and mistakes riddled throughout those games.

Lots of very good moments in that time too, but of course you won't mention them or acknowledge them. As an under-developed 18/19 year old with less than 30 games under his belt.

But you're right. If you're not dominating by then, you never will.

Delist.

 

[El Topo]

A few posters subscribing to the 'buy high, sell low' approach regarding Dow/LOB/Samo. It's ok to be impatient or frustrated, but come on now.

 

[Bostonian]

As an under-developed 18/19 year old with less than 30 games under his belt.

You're right. If you're not dominating by then, you never will.

Delist.

He's barely sighted in games lately. Let alone dominating.

Dow does nothing to move the needle to make us a better team.

Obviously the people picking the team agree.

 

[Love the Drake]

A few posters subscribing to the 'buy high, sell low' approach regarding Dow/LOB/Samo. It's ok to be impatient or frustrated, but come on now.

I don’t get this at all. You can add Stocker to the ‘condemned list’. All are high end draft picks. All are in their 2nd/3rd/4th year. We must trust in our development program.

It’s Powers first year at the club. We’ve invested heavily in him. Maybe he’s working on the weaknesses we see and probably don’t see. Patience..

 

[Beer n Skittles]

I'd take Degoey over papley every day of the wk

He's a better footballer but would you really want him at the club?

 

[Bostonian]

A few posters subscribing to the 'buy high, sell low' approach regarding Dow/LOB/Samo. It's ok to be impatient or frustrated, but come on now.

We have a history of holding onto players too long until they are worth nothing.

That's why our list was turd for so long.

I'd rather trade him now while we might get a pick and back the new recruitment team in to replace him with a better player.

 

[Jeremias]

He's barely sighted in games lately. Let alone dominating.

Dow does nothing to move the needle to make us a better team.

Obviously the people picking the team agree.

Cool. but that has exactly 0 to do with what we were discussing.

Not many disagree he's in a rut at the moment.

 

[Bostonian]

A few posters subscribing to the 'buy high, sell low' approach regarding Dow/LOB/Samo. It's ok to be impatient or frustrated, but come on now.

Or its the sell now whole they still have a bit of value before they are worth nothing mindset.

There's more than a few teams that have started a rebuild after us and moved past us.

They were able to do that by being brutal and trading away players that had value but weren't going to take them to the next level.

They had draft captial galore to make moves.

 

[Bostonian]

Cool. but that has exactly 0 to do with what we were discussing.

Not many disagree he's in a rut at the moment.

More like a chasm than a rut.

 

[Jeremias]

More like a chasm than a rut.

Again, not particularly relevant to the discussion. You're shifting goalposts to create an argument.

 

[Jeremias]

There's more than a few teams that have started a rebuild after us and moved past us.

They were able to do that by being brutal and trading away players that had value but weren't going to take them to the next level.

Name them.

 

[Metalcrusher]

Cool. but that has exactly 0 to do with what we were discussing.

Not many disagree he's in a rut at the moment.

Dow is still carrying a knee injury just so you know.

 

[Beer n Skittles]

Not sure if its been mentioned already, but with Special K choosing to hang up the boots, I'd pitch the Suns a 2nd rounder for Will Brodie and 2MP.

They're likely to pay out some of Wright's contract and he's a talented kid stuck in his development. Gives us a third big man on the list - potentially a medium term replacement for Levi as a 2nd ruck. Worst case, he gives us backup in the ruck/forward for when we punt Moore and are a big man or two down in the reserves.

Brodie looks like he needs a good change up but has talent and commitment in spades. On Dew's wrong side for whatever reason but - with the Brodie connection here already - he could be a great fit for us.

He's the right size for a backup ruck and should be able to compete, but every time I see Wright in the centre he is beaten badly

 

[Blue__Balls]

No, the risk is we cut a gun because he hasn't hit his peak at age 20

It's got nothing to do with him not hitting his peak, and everything to do with him regressing dramatically over the last 12 months.

I'm under no illusion that there wouldn't be reasons for that. COVID shenanigans, hub life, injuries, lack of continuity etc. Those things, theoretically, all disappear next year and he could come back into a good run of form.

The question is whether those reasons are the main/only reasons, or if there are underlying issues in regards to competitive drive and desire - and if so, what is it going to take to overcome them.

As suggested, sometimes players need the massive reality check that comes with being delisted or traded. I hope Dow isn't one of those, because there's no way we come out ahead if so. Maybe he just needs a good preseason, back at home in Melbourne, some preseason games to get him back into the groove and then a big crowd at the G in round one.

It does concern me though, that the match committee deemed him "ready" a few weeks ago. Either he was talking the talk at training, and the MC got sucked in, or he wasn't and they selected him in the hope that it would just work. Still no doubt in my mind that he should not have played this year. We'd have been better off bringing Kennedy in - he lacks Dow's "x factor" but you know he'll get stuck in to the contest and he gives you a decent forward rotation as a bonus.

Same reason Newnes is getting games ahead of O'Brien. He provides consistent impact, and while his ceiling might not be huge, he's unlikely to go missing entirely. Dow needs to find that competitive mindset, where he crosses the white line and everything becomes about beating his man to the ball and coming out the other side with it in his hands.

Maybe playing alongside Cripps is problematic? He subconsciously defers to the more senior player and sits off the contest?

Maybe that's an unintended side effect of Cripps' play/leadership style, that he takes on so much responsibility himself that the players around him withdraw a bit. It works for a player like Walsh whose strengths suit playing as a wider receiver. But for a player like Dow, it leaves him in no-mans-land.

I'm heading off on a random tangent here....so back to my main point.

Dow needs to get his head right. It is possible that it won't happen with us. If it does, we're laughing. If it doesn't, then we're better off getting value for him now than waiting for 2 more years of lacklustre performances to drive his value even lower. I'm not offering him to anyone. But if someone comes asking for him, I'm playing hardball but secretly hoping their offer reaches "too good to refuse" levels.

 

[Beer n Skittles]

Is he?

Never been All Australian.

Only kicked 3 goals since round 8.

Plays for free kicks.

Dodgy disposal by foot.

Only averaging 11 disposals per game and that's including midfield minutes.

Everyone would take Dow as a developing midfielder on their list.

Explosive pace. Excellent ball winner at the stoppages.

He has the attributes to be an A grader. Just because he's been struck down with injury this season doesn't change the fact that he has the talent and attributes to be a very good player.

Seems like a pretty one eyed take

 

[Metalcrusher]

He's the right size for a backup ruck and should be able to compete, but every time I seem Wright in the centre he is beaten badly

Cuz he doesn't want to be there, bloke is a sook if he doesn't play FF

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

We have a history of holding onto players too long until they are worth nothing.

That's why our list was turd for so long.

I'd rather trade him now while we might get a pick and back the new recruitment team in to replace him with a better player.

disagree with your ratings but totally agree with this.
For me it’s too hard to make a judgment this year without VFL but if you could do trades to orchestrate say out Dow, LOB in Caldwell and B.Smith/Polec then it’s a no brainer if you don’t rate Dow/LOB and can maybe replace them with high ceiling similar players that we rate higher.

 

[Blue__Balls]

I'd be open to bringing in 2MP for a very late pick and trying to Jones him.

Give him the entirety of next season playing as a full back at reserves level, with a view to taking Jones' spot in 2022 if he comes on. And in the event that Harry or Charlie or Levi go down...well, he gets his opportunity at senior level earlier at FF.

Very low cost for:

a) short term KPF depth
b) long term KPD prospect

If the transition down back doesn't work...we're out a third rounder and who gives a shit.

 

[Yubby]

For all those suggesting we trade Stocker or Dow just consider for a minute that they are both contracted for 2 more years after this year. Having contracts until the end of the 2022 season is a clear sign that the Carlton football club value these young players highly. For comparison, Sam Walsh is contracted to 2022 as is Setters and Cuners.

Let's just give Dow, LOB and Stocker the courtesy of a bit more time to grow into the players they are capable of being especially as the club clearly believes in them. They are only 20 year olds with their whole career in front of them and pretty sure Soapy has said that Dow won't be leaving and that the club do not want to trade any of our young players including DOW, SPS and LOB.

I know we are impatient due to years languishing at the bottom however i'm confident that these players will be challenged by the club to reach their potential. With Russell and Power involved i have confidence in this occurring and that it will be clear to the players what they have to do exactly to make it. I'm sure we as supporters will never know what this is as and just need to trust the club knows what it's doing. Certainly i feel the improvement in recent years by the club is enough to give them my trust for a while still.

 

[Bostonian]

Name them.

St Kilda, Port, Brisbane.

 

[THE_GUN]

It was more realistic a few weeks back when he was getting dropped. Now back in the side and probably in their best 22, it seems less likely. Think Adelaide could have real shot at him. Whats his value? our 2nd?

I personally wouldnt trade him but if he insisted he wanted to leave and wanted a trade whilst it might sound strange due to him being drafted at #53 i would be asking a pick between #20-#25. He is certainly best 22 at Richmond and would have been an automatic selection in his 2nd premiership had he not done his shoulder in the Prelim.

The thing that distorts his value is the role he plays at Richmond being a defensive mid rather than a ball hunting midfielder but i think in another team with a different game plan he would be a mid that could get 20+ touches every game and does kick goals when he goes foward.

 

[Stamos]

Dow does nothing to move the needle to make us a better team.

Obviously the people picking the team agree.

How do you figure?
He played round 1, was injured, played 3 scratch matches and came into the side for 2 games. He has since missed 1.

He obviously has things to work on, mainly to do with his fitness and defensive work. But you really come across as having NFI.

 

[CJMB]

I'd be open to bringing in 2MP for a very late pick and trying to Jones him.

Give him the entirety of next season playing as a full back at reserves level, with a view to taking Jones' spot in 2022 if he comes on. And in the event that Harry or Charlie or Levi go down...well, he gets his opportunity at senior level earlier at FF.

Very low cost for:

a) short term KPF depth
b) long term KPD prospect

If the transition down back doesn't work...we're out a third rounder and who gives a sh*t.

You want us to take a guy with a $500k contract who only wants to play as a forward and chuck him down back in the reserves to try and 'Jones' him?!...

 

[CJMB]

St Kilda, Port, Brisbane.

ummmm