2020 New Zealand vs India (5 T20Is, 3 ODIs, 2 Tests)

Wedge McManus

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That's what poor teams overseas say. A drawn series is just that.
You really think we're a poor touring team? We would have won the ashes 3-1 if Paine hadn't misspoken at the fifth test's toss. We pushed India incredibly close the last time we toured there and if Warner hadn't have ordered the youngest member of the team to stupidly cheat we would have smoked the saffas during that horrible tour. We're easily the best team going round now
 
You really think we're a poor touring team? We would have won the ashes 3-1 if Paine hadn't misspoken at the fifth test's toss. We pushed India incredibly close the last time we toured there and if Warner hadn't have ordered the youngest member of the team to stupidly cheat we would have smoked the saffas during that horrible tour. We're easily the best team going round now

Could have, would have, didn’t.

Yes at this stage we are a very average touring side. It’s up to us to change that.
 
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You really think we're a poor touring team? We would have won the ashes 3-1 if Paine hadn't misspoken at the fifth test's toss. We pushed India incredibly close the last time we toured there and if Warner hadn't have ordered the youngest member of the team to stupidly cheat we would have smoked the saffas during that horrible tour. We're easily the best team going round now

Easily smoked the Saffers?

So the 2-1 series score BEFORE those players got suspended, including a 6 wicket South African win and a 220 run South African win, is proof that somehow if Bancroft didn’t cheat, Australia would have won.

Yeah, ok
 

Seedsfan

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Based on what? The only place Australia won its last tour outside of the West Indies, is New Zealand. That was when McCullum was still playing.
To be fair when we last played NZ away out of their squad of 14 included 9 players who were in the squad in 19/20 the kiwis have been a very stable side part of that is born out of the success they have been having but it is also partly the reason for their success.

When we last played them before this summer their IX was
Guptill
Latham
Williamson
Nicholls
McCullum
Anderson
Watling
Southee
Henry
Wagner
Boult

Santnar was a squad player, the point is 8 of that IX played in the most recent series. Taylor came back from surgery and replaced the retiring McCullum. Raval and now Blundell have had ago at locking down that second openers spot and Anderson has been lost to test cricket due to persistent back injuries replaced by de Grandhomme.

When you compare that to Australia who’s IX was made up of
Warner
Burns
Khawaja
Smith
Voges
M Marsh
Nevill
Pattinson
Hazelwood
Lyon
Bird

We only had 6 of those players feature in the next series and we have also had a merry go round for that second openers role

I don’t think anyone side can lay claim to being the kings of playing away though as since the fall of South Africa all countries are pretty bad at it. We are one of the better nations but the competition isn’t that high
 
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To be fair when we last played NZ away out of their squad of 14 included 9 players who were in the squad in 19/20 the kiwis have been a very stable side part of that is born out of the success they have been having but it is also partly the reason for their success.

When we last played them before this summer their IX was
Guptill
Latham
Williamson
Nicholls
McCullum
Anderson
Watling
Southee
Henry
Wagner
Boult

Santnar was a squad player, the point is 8 of that IX played in the most recent series. Taylor came back from surgery and replaced the retiring McCullum. Raval and now Blundell have had ago at locking down that second openers spot and Anderson has been lost to test cricket due to persistent back injuries replaced by de Grandhomme.

When you compare that to Australia who’s IX was made up of
Warner
Burns
Khawaja
Smith
Voges
M Marsh
Nevill
Pattinson
Hazelwood
Lyon
Bird

We only had 6 of those players feature in the next series and we have also had a merry go round for that second openers role

I don’t think anyone side can lay claim to being the kings of playing away though as since the fall of South Africa all countries are pretty bad at it. We are one of the better nations but the competition isn’t that high

Kiwis obviously lose a fair few points simply for how disgustingly bad they were here but their subcontinent efforts give them decent enough claims as far as away teams go. Outside of Asian teams travelling within Asia, Australia in NZ, and most sides going to the West Indies I wouldn’t really want to rely on anyone winning away so it’s a fair point
 

Seedsfan

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There is no good touring team at the moment. There is no standout among that mediocrity either, it's just one big blob of average to poor.
I agree but one thing we normally do is not get blown away. England come here and are just not in the contest. We may still underperform there but the drop off isn’t as bad.

Again India in 17 we took the series to the 4th test. South Africa 18 we were in the series they started getting on top in their second innings with the bat in the third test obviously we got caught ball tampering and s**t hit the fan and we shat the bed after that.

I think the biggest problem with Australia as a touring side is we can get complacent against the smaller nations. By that I mean 2017 we perform well in India then go to Bangladesh and lose the first test. I think we can get a bit ahead of ourselves and just think the result will take care of it’s and we lack respect for the opposition at times. That’s not to make excuses for us failing in Bangladesh in 17 or Sri Lanka in 16 but I think it’s room for growth and improvement in Australian cricket.
 

Seedsfan

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Kiwis obviously lose a fair few points simply for how disgustingly bad they were here but their subcontinent efforts give them decent enough claims as far as away teams go. Outside of Asian teams travelling within Asia, Australia in NZ, and most sides going to the West Indies I wouldn’t really want to rely on anyone winning away so it’s a fair point
Look I agree NZ performed really well to get the win over Pakistan and Sri Lanka especially for a team that struggles to produce spinners. Outside of that their haven’t been too many good touring performances outside of Sri Lanka in South Africa and England had a good win in Sri Lanka.
 

KiwiRoo

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I think they should move it around. Why shouldn’t it be in India or Australia? I would like it to always be held in a neutral country though with the ICC taking control of the wicket preparation so neither team is advantaged


yeah i can see that, but something quite nice about it being played at the home of cricket.
I agree that the neutrality of the pitch prep is important. All sides would try to get something to their advantage if the series final is played at their home
 

KiwiRoo

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I am not basing it of one series keep putting your head in the sand champ.

When did I base anything of one series? As much as you may like to dismiss it as just one series NZ just can not beat us, historically they can’t. We smashed them both home and away at the start of 2016 and again in 2019. It’s great to see them start to emerge as a cricketing nation but anybody with even half a brain would tell you that you are wrong if you said that they are currently a better side than Australia.

I get you love your rankings but their is no escaping the fact that Australia is punished in the rankings due to losing games in 2018 when we were missing our best players. Again anyone can see that is not a true reflection of this team yes NZ have done well there is no denying that but they are not a better test side than Australia.

Funnily enough you look at the rankings for the world test championship and we sit above them. So what rankings is right?


To be honest though its pretty disgusting how little you have played us over the journey considering we are your neighbours. If we play your regularly I'm pretty sure we would get better against you

for example how often did you play a game in NZ in the whole of the 80's when we had a good side ? Once ?
 
Australia played seven Tests in NZ in the 1980s. 3 in 1981/82, 3 in 1985/86 and one in 1989/90 (this last one was in March 1990 so technically not even 1980s). They won just one of these Tests and lost three.

It might be difficult to believe now, but after their 1976-77 series win, Australia didn’t win a series in New Zealand again until 2000.

KiwiRoo is correct also - Australia’s lack of Tests in NZ in general is criminal considering how close it is.
 

Seedsfan

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To be honest though its pretty disgusting how little you have played us over the journey considering we are your neighbours. If we play your regularly I'm pretty sure we would get better against you

for example how often did you play a game in NZ in the whole of the 80's when we had a good side ? Once ?
Yeah look I don’t disagree we should tour NZ more. I would like to see up play more test cricket in general. We only have 5 tests left this year and it’s not enough.
 

workhorse

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Easily smoked the Saffers?

So the 2-1 series score BEFORE those players got suspended, including a 6 wicket South African win and a 220 run South African win, is proof that somehow if Bancroft didn’t cheat, Australia would have won.

Yeah, ok
I take your point but Cape Town (sandpaper gate) was the third test. The series was 1-1 at the time. The momentum of the series had definitely turned in SA's way and they were on-track to win the 3rd test. However, you couldn't rule out the possibility of Australia turning around to level the series in the 4th test if the sh*t hadn't hit the fan. Easily smoked them is probably a stretch, though :tearsofjoy:
 
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It seems the best team in the world is purely down to luck, always felt the toss was crucial and the stats prove it. Also proves beyond doubt that Paine threw away the 5th test

 

KiwiRoo

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It seems the best team in the world is purely down to luck, always felt the toss was crucial and the stats prove it. Also proves beyond doubt that Paine threw away the 5th test


it shows that generally in most countries the tracks just aren't proving enough movement on day one, so its a no brainer to bat first. if you put some spice in the tracks then it should even things up and not make losing the toss such a big deal

the interesting thing in NZ recently is that the side batting second has had the best chance of winning
 
It seems the best team in the world is purely down to luck, always felt the toss was crucial and the stats prove it. Also proves beyond doubt that Paine threw away the 5th test


That decision at the toss was the most braindead decision he's made and boy he made some woeful ones with DRS! Whoever decided to be drunk enough to bowl first at the Oval when all we needed to do was get 350+ and England wouldn't have won...
 
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it shows that generally in most countries the tracks just aren't proving enough movement on day one, so its a no brainer to bat first. if you put some spice in the tracks then it should even things up and not make losing the toss such a big deal

the interesting thing in NZ recently is that the side batting second has had the best chance of winning

But that could still be a crucial toss, there are times at the GABBA, Bellerive, Lords etc where winning the toss and bowling first is a god send if you can make the most of the conditions, roll a team early and enjoy good batting conditions on day 2-3. The GABBA imo still has a habit of if they liven it up too much, it flattens out a lot and second innings is the time to bat. The Ashes test in 2010 was a prime example of a lively pitch becoming an absolute road so flat that its not usually seen outside of Sydney or Adelaide.

The Ireland v England test was a good example though of if you do get rolled, you have to then fight back whilst conditions are favourable.
 

KiwiRoo

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But that could still be a crucial toss, there are times at the GABBA, Bellerive, Lords etc where winning the toss and bowling first is a god send if you can make the most of the conditions, roll a team early and enjoy good batting conditions on day 2-3. The GABBA imo still has a habit of if they liven it up too much, it flattens out a lot and second innings is the time to bat. The Ashes test in 2010 was a prime example of a lively pitch becoming an absolute road so flat that its not usually seen outside of Sydney or Adelaide.

The Ireland v England test was a good example though of if you do get rolled, you have to then fight back whilst conditions are favourable.


Im not talking an absolute green top though, I'm talking about that if you lose the toss and the opposition bats, there is still enough in the track that it could be a good toss to loose.
 
Im not talking an absolute green top though, I'm talking about that if you lose the toss and the opposition bats, there is still enough in the track that it could be a good toss to loose.

I'm a fan of getting rid of the toss. The opposition decides.
 
We compete at least. Unlike India who get yellow belly at the sight of a green tinged wicket

India had a poor tour no doubt but they have won in Australia recently and have won in plenty of places. As for competing we’ve had our fair share of very poor performances
 

KiwiRoo

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I'm a fan of getting rid of the toss. The opposition decides.

now that would be interesting ! It would take away some of that anticipation on day one as to what your side will be doing, but has some merit

Don't think it would change the preparation of tracks too much in NZ. They have to leave plenty of grass on them anyway (so that they have some pace and bounce, Otherwise they are slow and low and boring). So tracks would still seam
 
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