Play Nice 2020 Non AFL Admin, Crowds, Ratings, Participation etc thread

Les Malone

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Nah

It shows that the AFL went very close to getting two of the best handful of under 23 players in the NRL while still getting the likes of Heeney, Mills, Harris Andrews, Eric Hipwood in the same period
There is a certain cross over of players that suit both games( AF, RL) but in general players such as Hipwood, Andrews were never going to be RL players, more likely to be Volleyball players or basketball or if put on stacks of weight a tall line out RU player.

Heeney and the big type of midfielders may suit both games, possibly as a center, winger or 5/8 etc in the rugby codes.

I really think the codes have a bit in common but not a great deal when looking for players.
 

Gigantor

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Hyundai, the biggest sponsor, will be finishing its $6m pa sponsorship of the A League-will not renew at a lower rate. A League hopes it may agree to a 1year extension. It is joining the long list of other major sponsors to quit.


Bring Back Frank!

Daily Telegraph's P. Rothfield has today predicted that Bet 365 will also soon quit; & that "soccer is in big trouble in this country".
if you can't even hold onto a betting company....
 

manicmagpie

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Does anyone know if those that attend the 'Live Stage' at the tennis are counted in the attendance?
They have to pay to enter, so Yes they should count.
The attendance for Sunday at the Aus Open is given as 31,020 so they are definitely counting the Live Stage.

This year saw a daily record of 93,709 on Day 6, as well as the 4th and 5th highest days ever (Days 5 and 2).

Source: https://www.austadiums.com/sport/sport.php?sid=10
 

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Rabman

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Arrogance, that's the failure of soccer in this country. To many individuals who have a naive view that because it's played everywhere in the world its a matter of time it takes over here. I think soccer has underestimated the ingrained religious like following Australian Rules Football, Cricket and Rugby have in this country and have thought that the younger generation wouldn't be interested in those sports and follow soccer instead. I also believe individuals like Simon Hill and others have given soccer a poor image by there constant sniping of other sports. There doesn't seem to be an article without derogatory or demeaning views shown towards Australian Rules or Rugby, leading to a view that the rise of soccer has to come at the expense of other sports. Soccer fans seem very easily triggered when others are critical of there sport, ignoring the fact many of there own have made similar disparaging comments to other codes. It disappointing these voices are heard considering there are very good people in soccer like Mark Bosnich and Adam Peacock who are very realistic and passionate about there game.
 
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Kwality

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There is a certain cross over of players that suit both games( AF, RL) but in general players such as Hipwood, Andrews were never going to be RL players, more likely to be Volleyball players or basketball or if put on stacks of weight a tall line out RU player.

Heeney and the big type of midfielders may suit both games, possibly as a center, winger or 5/8 etc in the rugby codes.

I really think the codes have a bit in common but not a great deal when looking for players.
Talented sportsmen in my experience can turn their hand to many different sports but are forced to commit young, it takes guts to not go down the AFL route if you have the opportunity.
How many young Aussies are trying their hand at soccer in Europe?
 

Kwality

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Re: A-League's ratings decline on Foxtel, I've mentioned this before on this thread but it bears repeating. It's never really recovered from when Fox got the cricket rights as its totally devoted its advertising and promotion in summer based around cricket; understandably considering how well it rates compared to the best of A-League.

It was struggling a bit already, but being treated as a an afterthought by Fox since the cricket arrived when it used to be it's main summer sport product has really hurt it imo. They'd probably be better off trying to join up with Optus' streaming EPL coverage mixed with FTA coverage once this current deal ends if they can get decent money.
Its not as if Fox has only one sports channel.
 

BobbyMorri

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Why will that stop any Asian country/city looking to snaffle it. Look at how easily India took over cricket.
China already has several major tournaments, including the WTA End of Year champs at Shenzhen(on a huge and long contract) plus top-level tournaments in Beijing, Shanghai and Wuhan. The next step is for them to have a week and a half tournament like Indian Wells and Miami, where the draw is 96 players. I can foresee that happening one day and it should happen. but I can't see another "grand slam", or them taking the Aus Open away from us. the calendar is too stacked as it is.

The Australian Open makes a lot of money and we spend a lot of money on it. Our grounds are the best in the world in terms of size, location, access and state of the art courts.

interesting news which came on my twitter feed was that the ITF and the ATP are talking to each other about merging the ATP Cup and Davis Cup. Tennis Australia also wants to add a WTA Cup to compliment the men's version. So, the Australian Summer of Tennis could easily shift...again.
 

Kwality

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Average of what, per event telecast?
China already has several major tournaments, including the WTA End of Year champs at Shenzhen(on a huge and long contract) plus top-level tournaments in Beijing, Shanghai and Wuhan. The next step is for them to have a week and a half tournament like Indian Wells and Miami, where the draw is 96 players. I can foresee that happening one day and it should happen. but I can't see another "grand slam", or them taking the Aus Open away from us. the calendar is too stacked as it is.

The Australian Open makes a lot of money and we spend a lot of money on it. Our grounds are the best in the world in terms of size, location, access and state of the art courts.

interesting news which came on my twitter feed was that the ITF and the ATP are talking to each other about merging the ATP Cup and Davis Cup. Tennis Australia also wants to add a WTA Cup to compliment the men's version. So, the Australian Summer of Tennis could easily shift...again.
Nope its the prestige they want, a 5th grand slam is our only hope long term.
 

Minka Beaver

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The Australian Open may actually be more secure as a long-term Grand Slam tournament than the French Open, because the perceived risk of rising Asian interest motivates governments to keep investing in facilities and hospitality. Melbourne Park is a phenomenal venue and Tennis Australia have worked very smartly with the Victorian Government to market the tournament as 'the Grand Slam of the Asia-Pacific'. It's a huge money-spinner. There's more risk of the tournament shifting to Sydney than there is to China.

The French Open on the other hand is held at a very tired facility in a city with neither the inclination or the need to upgrade the venue. Roland Garros (and the nearby Parc des Princes) are a pain to get to, plus there's currently no capacity to play at night. History and precedent are the tournament's greatest attractions, but - as the Australian Open discovered in the 1980s - goodwill on that front is a finite resource. There's a real risk in coming decades that the clay court major is instead played in Rome, Madrid, Berlin, China or even the Middle East.
 

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BobbyMorri

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Nope its the prestige they want, a 5th grand slam is our only hope long term.
considering Melbourne Park has a contract til 2037, that is a very long time.

It won't happen. Tennis politics is not like the AFL. It's full of conflicting politics by numerous organisations. See The ATP Cup/Grand Slam. The Grand Slams are ITF event run by Tennis Australia for example, not an ATP/WTA event. It is slow to change, and when it does, there is so much infighting over it that you end up with the same tournament within 8 weeks of each other.

you are underestimating what Australia brings to tennis. the largest attendance of any tennis tournament in the world, in the winter timeslot of Europe(something Asia can't do unless it is fully indoors) and a fully captive market. Plus History and prestige.
 

BobbyMorri

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The Australian Open may actually be more secure as a long-term Grand Slam tournament than the French Open, because the perceived risk of rising Asian interest motivates governments to keep investing in facilities and hospitality. Melbourne Park is a phenomenal venue and Tennis Australia have worked very smartly with the Victorian Government to market the tournament as 'the Grand Slam of the Asia-Pacific'. It's a huge money-spinner. There's more risk of the tournament shifting to Sydney than there is to China.

The French Open on the other hand is held at a very tired facility in a city with neither the inclination or the need to upgrade the venue. Roland Garros (and the nearby Parc des Princes) are a pain to get to, plus there's currently no capacity to play at night. History and precedent are the tournament's greatest attractions, but - as the Australian Open discovered in the 1980s - goodwill on that front is a finite resource. There's a real risk in coming decades that the clay court major is instead played in Rome, Madrid, Berlin, China or even the Middle East.
actually, the FFT have finally spent money on Roland Garros.


Night play incoming. Plus a roof.

I found Wimbledon more of a pain to get to than Roland Garros. But both are small complexes compared to Melbourne Park
 

Minka Beaver

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actually, the French Open has finally spent money on Roland Garros.


Night play incoming. Plus a roof.

I found Wimbledon more of a pain to get to than Roland Garros. But both are small complexs compared to Melbourne Park
That's awesome, because it noticeably lags behind the other majors on TV. I've only been to that complex outside of tournament play, but did once travel to Parc des Princes for a night match. It was an annoying trip from central Paris because it's beyond the Périphérique.
 

RussellEbertHandball

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Why will that stop any Asian country/city looking to snaffle it. Look at how easily India took over cricket.
Has India really taken over cricket?

If they generate 70% of the games revenue, shouldn't they have 70% of the say?

Remember it is Indian TV $$$ that is the ICC's biggest income earner, from the ODI WC and now T20 WC, to develop the game world wide and to advance female cricket, and the test playing countries have only ceded certain powers over to the ICC.

Australia and England ran the game for years and they refused to give up their powers to the ICC compared to what powers football nations have ceded to FIFA and its confederations. Same with many other international sports. Then the $$$ made them less relevant, and they couldn't complain, as English cricket has been about the $$$ since the 1850's when they had professionals and WSC in Oz was all about the $$$.

WSC was about the $$$ and that saw Australia have some control over the cricket calendar once the cricket war was over. Ie they got to play their summer 5 or 6 tests when they wanted, play 3 teams in their ODI comp and they set the rules on who got invited into the tent and drove the rules for ODI's re colour clothing, white ball, lights and day/nighters etc.

T20 was new when the Indian's turned the IPL into a mega rich competition. So yeah the Indian's control that 6 weeks of the calendar. But they don't the other 46 to anywhere near the same extent.

Did they take over ODI's?? Yes they played plenty of them both at home and away in the 1990's and 00's, but all the countries have their comps and its not like India has played 50% more ODI's than any other nation.

India hasn't taken over Test cricket. Yeah they said they don't want to play with the pink ball until they tried it out. Fair enough why give the other side a big advantage. India didn't like the DRS and said it has too many errors before they accepted it. This summer I reckon has proved them right.

The only country that would be able to buy the Australian Open off the ITF (who have control of the 4 slams and Davis cup) are the Chinese, unless something very dramatic happens in Oz and people don't wont to go to the Oz Open. And that wont happen.

The players on the ATP and WTA will have a say if any slam was to be removed. Listen to the players talk about the Oz Open. They love it and all talk about it being the best run and/or their favourite. They know there are plenty of tournaments to make big $$$ - in Qatar, Dubai, China etc, but history is history and the slams have cache in their 4 current cities that no new city would have.

There is more chance of a 5th "major" being introduced, than Melbourne losing its grand slam event.
 

BobbyMorri

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That's awesome, because it noticeably lags behind the other majors on TV. I've only been to that complex outside of tournament play, but did once travel to Parc des Princes for a night match. It was an annoying trip from central Paris because it's beyond the Périphérique.
At is at least nearish the city and the Paris Metro. Though I must admit I got lost both going to and leaving via the Metro, so perhaps I am forgetting how much of a pain it was. it is no Richmond or Flinders St in terms of simplicity. The venue is so small. impossible to move around. that is Roland Garros biggest issue.

At Wimbledon, you end up in the village via the tube and then you gotta work in suburban residential streets before you get to Wimbledon. I am sure there are busses around but it is in a shocking location for a major event. But that is part of its charm.

never been the US Open, but I think it is a fair way out of the city proper. Though, New York is so big, what is the city proper...

I don't think people understand how great Melbourne Park is. In the city, with great transport and with plenty of room. It craps on the other 3 places. We will never lose our Open because of it. Players love it, fans love it and broadcasters love it.
 

RussellEbertHandball

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never been the US Open, but I think it is a fair way out of the city proper. Though, New York is so big, what is the city proper...
Depends what you call the city proper. If you mean Manhattan, or Brooklyn by the East River, then no. It's in Queens - Flushing Meadows. I have been there but not when US Open is on and whilst its only on 1 train line, its about a 15-20 minute trip, about 10 miles east, from Grand Central Station, so lots of connecting lines go through Grand Central to link up.

I don't think people understand how great Melbourne Park is. In the city, with great transport and with plenty of room. It craps on the other 3 places. We will never lose our Open because of it. Players love it, fans love it and broadcasters love it.
And this is another reason why a lot of the players rave why Melbourne is their favourite tournament, especially when they bring family and friends. It is so easy for them to get to Melbourne Park, so they don't have to worry about organising their family and friends to get there, especially at a different time to the player, even if they aren't a top 10 player who has everything laid out for them.
 

Kwality

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The Australian Open may actually be more secure as a long-term Grand Slam tournament than the French Open, because the perceived risk of rising Asian interest motivates governments to keep investing in facilities and hospitality. Melbourne Park is a phenomenal venue and Tennis Australia have worked very smartly with the Victorian Government to market the tournament as 'the Grand Slam of the Asia-Pacific'. It's a huge money-spinner. There's more risk of the tournament shifting to Sydney than there is to China.

The French Open on the other hand is held at a very tired facility in a city with neither the inclination or the need to upgrade the venue. Roland Garros (and the nearby Parc des Princes) are a pain to get to, plus there's currently no capacity to play at night. History and precedent are the tournament's greatest attractions, but - as the Australian Open discovered in the 1980s - goodwill on that front is a finite resource. There's a real risk in coming decades that the clay court major is instead played in Rome, Madrid, Berlin, China or even the Middle East.
The Chinese want our Open. Not suggesting for one minute the Aus Open isnt good, the best even.

Australian Open is billed as the grand slam of the 'Asia Pacific' — but is it?
In 2011, China's Li Na became the first Asian tennis player to win a grand slam title: the 2011 French Open. She later took the AO in 2014.

In 2008, Li called for the AO to be permanently relocated to Shanghai — citing concerns over extreme heat and distance from China — but in 2014, she revised her position, saying the AO "felt closest" to the Chinese.

AO tournament director Craig Tiley estimated in 2018 that China had some 330 million tennis fans, "220 million" of whom were AO fans.

 

Kwality

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Rugby Australia blows its Fox Sports broadcast deal
not unexpected, now official.

.....

Signs of unrest emerged last year when RA failed to finalise their television deal for 2021-25, despite partner nations New Zealand and South Africa signing theirs.

In attempting to gain more money for rugby, Castle refused Fox’s initial offer, which is when Optus emerged as a candidate. Problems were clear when just before the season kicked off last week, Fox released highly respected rugby commentator Nick McArdle and former Wallaby Drew Mitchell from their roster, and cut their weekly rugby show.

The first round matches averaged just 33,000 viewers last weekend, down 19 per cent on round one last year and more worryingly, games with Australian teams were down 35 per cent.

In their attempt to pitch a multi-layered package, RA has blocked Fox Sports’ offer to broadcast the Shute Shield and Queensland Premier Rugby this year. The Sydney club competition, owned by Club Rugby TV, is broadcast by Channel Seven, who are paid by Sydney Rugby Union to show the match of the round each Saturday.

Fox Sports offered to pick up the $300,000 annual fee to show Shute Shield matches and Queensland club rugby games, with Seven — who have the rights until the end of 2024 — agreeing to the proposal.

But RA want club rugby as part of their entire package and blocked the move, presumably so if they could not make a deal with Fox Sports, they could sell it to Ten and Optus.

....
 

wagstaff

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The decline of RU in Oz in the past 15 years has been staggering.

The 2003 WC was a major event in Oz; even in Victoria it created huge interest. I recall the Oz/Eng final getting astonishing FTA ratings that iirc was superior to what SOO and AFL GF can't reach. I recall even members of my own family who usually had no interest in the sport watching the 03 final.

It would've been unthinkable that the sport could decline so rapidly in less than 20 years but here we are. I'm just curious as to what the prime causes of it are. Obviously the decline of the Wallabies (especially their constant Bledisloe failures) is a factor, but it shouldn't be this severe.

I recall on the Titus O'Reilly/Sergio Paradise podcast they discussed why the Melbourne Storm have gained a much better foothold on the town than the Melbourne Rebels. They observed from personal experience how when interacting with RU types who were supposedly trying to entice Vics to get on board they were largely full of contempt and complacency. So perhaps that insularity and snobbishness has been a constant problem for them.
 

Gigantor

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The decline of RU in Oz in the past 15 years has been staggering.

The 2003 WC was a major event in Oz; even in Victoria it created huge interest. I recall the Oz/Eng final getting astonishing FTA ratings that iirc was superior to what SOO and AFL GF can't reach. I recall even members of my own family who usually had no interest in the sport watching the 03 final.

It would've been unthinkable that the sport could decline so rapidly in less than 20 years but here we are. I'm just curious as to what the prime causes of it are. Obviously the decline of the Wallabies (especially their constant Bledisloe failures) is a factor, but it shouldn't be this severe.
1. As you mention, 15+ years of getting clobbered in the Bledisloe Cup.
2. Out of the ARUs' control, but the expansion of Super Rugby to some of these overseas clubs, while a good thing for rugby in global terms, is a bad thing for increasing support in Australia for the game. Australians do not get invested in watching overseas clubs. Once the Australian team drops out of the finals series, Australian interest plummets to zero.
3. The game has never had the broad based support of aussie rules and rugby league, and while it made big steps forward in the first decade of professionalism, ultimately, it has continued to suffer from having a narrow support base (in Australia).
4. Modern rugby is often difficult to watch. It's light years away from the McQueen coached Brumbies of the mid-late 90s (a warning to the AFL, year on year of crap footy will have an affect over a long period).
 

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