Play Nice 2020 Non AFL Admin, Crowds, Ratings, Participation etc thread

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BringBackTorps

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1. Re the WU club (A League) proposal to build their own 15,000 capacity soccer stadium in the sheep paddocks in Tarneit.

On 4.2.20, Wyndham Council responded to 5 earlier written questions by a resident (A. Sati) about the proposal.

In the Council Minutes, the Council said it is granting 6.5 hectares to Western Melbourne Group Holdings "...at no cost to WMG, in exchange for the building of Wyndham City Stadium..."
"...it's a Value-Add model".

On Sati's other questions requesting details of:-

. how much Wyndham City Council is providing financially, or in kind, for the stadium?
. how much WMG has contributed financially, or will contribute?
. how will WMG arrange the funding for the stadium?
. the extent of the commercial & residential development attached to the stadium precinct land grant?

the Council replied it could not give full (or any!) details, due to "Commercial-In-Confidence".

(then go to pages 87-88, for the detailed questions & answers)











EDIT:

2. P. Rothfield, in the Daily Telegraph 16.2.20 (paywall), has said the NRL will "expand" to 17 teams only in 2023- by adding an extra team in Brisbane. Rothfield also says the poor crowds for the RL Nines comp. in Perth would have hurt their chances of joining the NRL.

P. V'landys recent views, therefore, have prevailed with the ARLC -no Perth team, as the NRL team will "not waste its money on a rusted-on AFL heartland".

There will be a bye every week; no mention if there will be extra H & A games pa.


(Click on "Old" Comments first- then go to 11th comment by Goobefull, for the full DT transcript)


This 17th Brisbane team (notwithstanding the Super League failure of the South Qld. Crushers c. 22 years ago) will create a significant boost in NRL:-

. total annual ratings.

. broadcast $

. total Brisbane crowds

. MSM RL interest

Possibly, also, an increase in male GR RL regd. Qld. comp. players.

The only possible negative is that, as many RL experts have predicted, a dilution in the average NRL player skill levels. Depth is poor, due to the long term decline in male GR RL comp. player nos.
Can the NRL recruit more NZ & Pasifika players for the 17th team?
 
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NoobPie

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1. Re the WU club (A League) proposal to build their own 15,000 capacity soccer stadium in the sheep paddocks in Tarneit.

On 4.2.20, Wyndham Council responded to 5 earlier written questions by a resident (A. Sati) about the proposal.

In the Council Minutes, the Council said it is granting 6.5 hectares to Western Melbourne Group Holdings "...at no cost to WMG, in exchange for the building of Wyndham City Stadium..."
"...it's a Value-Add model".

On Sati's other questions requesting details of:-

. how much Wyndham City Council is providing financially, or in kind, for the stadium?
. how much WMG has contributed financially, or will contribute?
. how will WMG arrange the funding for the stadium?
. the extent of the commercial & residential development attached to the stadium precinct land grant?

the Council replied it could not give full (or any!) details, due to "Commercial-In-Confidence".

(then go to pages 87-88, for the detailed questions & answers)

There is no way that Wyndham council has only gifted 6.5 hectares to whatever dodgy operation sits behind Western United. I suspect that is for the stadium alone. They must have handed over several dozen hectares.

Something stinks enormously here. I suspect mono-rail type grotesque incompetence on behalf of the council
 

Aucklander

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Rothfield also says the poor crowds for the RL Nines comp. in Perth would have hurt their chances of joining the NRL.
That's an incredibly dumb thing to say after over 59,000 people turned up to Origin last year and NRL games are well attended when compared with Sydney.

P. V'landys recent views, therefore, have prevailed with the ARLC -no Perth team, as the NRL team will "not waste its money on a rusted-on AFL heartland".
So the lack of any sort of support is going to continue in Victoria, or will they just pull the plug here too?

Can the NRL recruit more NZ & Pasifika players for the 17th team?
They could try here.


Also some nice insights into how hard it must have been to sustain a team there.
 

BringBackTorps

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Wyndham Council is saying they are "hopeful" that work could start on building the new stadium this winter ie within the next 6 months.

However, as no building application has been lodged, nor the necessary period for advertising the project/seeking public feedback- & obviously no building permits issued until these occur- this prediction seems extremely optimistic.

Have the detailed architectural plans been completed- or even commenced? I have seen no public comments on these plans.

 
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Rob

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Wyndham Council is saying they are "hopeful" that work could start on building the new stadium this winter ie within the next 6 months.

However, as no building application has been lodged, nor the necessary period for advertising the project/seeking public feedback- & obviously no building permits issued until these occur- this prediction seems extremely optimistic.

Have the detailed architectural plans been completed- or even commenced? I have seen no public comments on these plans.

Didn't they just get 2k to a home game?

Nah, this news story which doesn't report anything new - or even anything at all except a glossy brochure - isn't a distraction at all.
 

Our Game

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There is no way that Wyndham council has only gifted 6.5 hectares to whatever dodgy operation sits behind Western United. I suspect that is for the stadium alone. They must have handed over several dozen hectares.

Something stinks enormously here. I suspect mono-rail type grotesque incompetence on behalf of the council
Would a lot more than 6.5 hectares for car parking!
 

Our Game

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The latest BS from Wyndham Council.Lets see the first sod turned!

Construction of new Western United ground scheduled
Michael Lynch
By Michael Lynch
February 17, 2020 — 6.24pm

  • Struggling A-League club Western United and their partners at Wyndham City Council are hopeful they will be able to begin work on the construction of their new ground at Tarneit by winter.
Wyndham Council's latest glossy publication for residents and ratepayers has a full page piece promoting Western updating the situation around the proposed venue, which, when constructed, will make them the only team in the competition to own and operate their own venue.
United's Connor Pain signs autographs fans. It's hoped the Tarneit ground will strength the new club's fan base.

United's Connor Pain signs autographs fans. It's hoped the Tarneit ground will strength (sic) the new club's fan base. CREDIT:GETTY IMAGES
"Plenty of work has gone on in the background to ensure the site at 1160 Sayers Road is ready," the article read.
"These works include Geotech reports, soil testing and flora and fauna analyses – all critical steps before construction can commence.
 

NoobPie

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The latest BS from Wyndham Council.Lets see the first sod turned!

Construction of new Western United ground scheduled
Michael Lynch
By Michael Lynch
February 17, 2020 — 6.24pm

  • Struggling A-League club Western United and their partners at Wyndham City Council are hopeful they will be able to begin work on the construction of their new ground at Tarneit by winter.
Wyndham Council's latest glossy publication for residents and ratepayers has a full page piece promoting Western updating the situation around the proposed venue, which, when constructed, will make them the only team in the competition to own and operate their own venue.
United's Connor Pain signs autographs fans. It's hoped the Tarneit ground will strength the new club's fan base. 's Connor Pain signs autographs fans. It's hoped the Tarneit ground will strength the new club's fan base.

United's Connor Pain signs autographs fans. It's hoped the Tarneit ground will strength (sic) the new club's fan base. CREDIT:GETTY IMAGES
"Plenty of work has gone on in the background to ensure the site at 1160 Sayers Road is ready," the article read.
"These works include Geotech reports, soil testing and flora and fauna analyses – all critical steps before construction can commence.
Have I just been hit with a profound sense of deja vu or has Michael Lynch written a half dozen PR pieces on behalf of Western United and their elusive stadium?
 

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Gigantor

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Have I just been hit with a profound sense of deja vu or has Michael Lynch written a half dozen PR pieces on behalf of Western United and their elusive stadium?
there was a near identical press release about 3 months, talking about planning process, almost complete, about to start building, etc.
 

Freo88

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With the AFL just releasing their 2019 results yesterday, has the NRL released theirs or do they even advertise that sort of result to main stream media?

I'm interested to see what sort of financial foundation they have and if they are making a regular profits. V'Landy's comment around not wasting money on rusted on supporters in an AFL state just got me thinking whether or not the NRL are unable to be as optimistic and aspirational about expanding to new markets.

I actually think an NRL side there would be a reasonable commercial success in Perth with the added bonus of increasing their grass root numbers. English and New Zealand expats i'm sure would support the team and with the Force no longer a serious professional entity i do think there is a gap in the market for a rugby code. I'm not sure you can call it an expansion by introducing another team in RL heartland Brisbane - they're banking on a lot of Broncos fans to defect to make it a worthwhile venture and even then is it really expanding the game?
 

BringBackTorps

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1. It appears the NRL, in its rumoured decision to add a 17th team in Brisbane only, is adopting a "Fortress Sydney & Brisbane" strategy.
P. V'landys has said recently the NRL "should forget wasting millions on rusted-on AFL states".

This is a very good article, from The Roar NRL expert A. Mithen, which persuasively rebukes the cashed-up NRL (c. $75m total net profits in financial y/e 2018 & y/e 2019) for deciding not to expand to Perth with a team.







2.[/QUOTE]
They could try here. (ie WA has the potential to create many more players, eventually, for the 17th NRL team- my words)

[/QUOTE]
The above linked article said that, re the number of RL players in WA in:-

. c. 1996, there were c. 10,000.

. 2010 (following the demise of the NRL Reds in 1998), there were 2000

. 2019, there were 4000

Can you advise how many of the above nos. were, or are, playing in a club contact RL competition?
And how many in at least 6 games of school contact RL competition?
(I would like to know the relevant nos. ie not one-off Gala Days etc, school phys. ed programs, or other short term programs, or community "events"; nor touch/tag players).

I would be surprised if, in c.1996, there were 10,000 contact RL players in WA.
 
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NoobPie

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With the AFL just releasing their 2019 results yesterday, has the NRL released theirs or do they even advertise that sort of result to main stream media?

I'm interested to see what sort of financial foundation they have and if they are making a regular profits. V'Landy's comment around not wasting money on rusted on supporters in an AFL state just got me thinking whether or not the NRL are unable to be as optimistic and aspirational about expanding to new markets.

I actually think an NRL side there would be a reasonable commercial success in Perth with the added bonus of increasing their grass root numbers. English and New Zealand expats i'm sure would support the team and with the Force no longer a serious professional entity i do think there is a gap in the market for a rugby code. I'm not sure you can call it an expansion by introducing another team in RL heartland Brisbane - they're banking on a lot of Broncos fans to defect to make it a worthwhile venture and even then is it really expanding the game?

The NRL is doing well commercially courtesy of a large TV deal. Had revenues of about $500M and a profit of $46M in the first year of its new TV deal....


They just off loaded the Titans at the end of 2017 as well. I think this is the issue with a Perth team. In addition to the costs it would add across the League, the NRL does not have sufficient independence / elevation above the parochial interests of the clubs to do what the AFL has done with the Giants and the Suns (and previously the Swans and the Bears / Lions). You would therefore need private ownership

In terms of viability, the Wookie has done a chronology of the Storm based on public information here


So over its first 17 years at least, the Storm lost a very large amount of money that was covered either by News Limited, the ARL or subsequent owners despite extraordinary on field success.

So it is fair to assume that a Perth team would lose a lot money for a long time, and perhaps in perpetuity. It would almost certainly require some private benefactor to lose money on the club in perpetuity and add another noisy, hungry stakeholder frustrating a move to a genuine AFL-like independent model
 

Rob

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The above linked article said that, re the number of RL players in WA in:-

. c. 1996, there were c. 10,000.

. 2010 (following the demise of the NRL Reds in 1998), there were 2000

. 2019, there were 4000

Can you advise how many of the above nos. were, or are, playing in a club contact RL competition?
And how many in at least 6 games of school contact RL competition?
(I would like to know the relevant nos. ie not one-off Gala Days etc, school phys. ed programs, or other short term programs, or community "events"; nor touch/tag players).

I would be surprised if, in c.1996, there were 10,000 contact RL players in WA.
4000 seems a bit of a stretch....at a very generous estimate of 30 players per team, that's 133 teams.

Last year there were 3 senior mens grades with 6-8 teams per grade. 1 womens grade (I dunno how many teams, but let's say 6). That's well under a thousand players. 3000+ juniors? I guess it's possible, but that's a lot of teams given there are usually a lot less players per team in junior sport. Probably 200+. I can't imagine where they'd be. I don't think i've ever seen an ad for a local junior rugby league club.

My guess is they're including touch players. Which I believe they've only just incorporated into the NRL. That may account for the increase since 2010.
 
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Aucklander

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Can you advise how many of the above nos. were, or are, playing in a club contact RL competition?
And how many in at least 6 games of school contact RL competition?
(I would like to know the relevant nos. ie not one-off Gala Days etc, school phys. ed programs, or other short term programs, or community "events"; nor touch/tag players).

I would be surprised if, in c.1996, there were 10,000 contact RL players in WA.
No idea. Maybe you could get in touch with the WARL and ask them.
 

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Netball Australia has announced Origin Energy as a naming rights partner, which will see the national team become known as the Origin Australian Diamonds.

The three-year partnership includes Origin investing in netball from a grassroots level all the way up to the national team, alongside Netball Australia and every state league, to grow the sport. The company will sponsor seven of the eight Suncorp Super Netball teams.

“Netball clubs are such an important part of our local communities, and Origin is excited to be working with Netball Australia to support the players, coaches, umpires and volunteers that are the lifeblood of the sport.”

How much?
 

Kwality

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In terms of viability, the Wookie has done a chronology of the Storm based on public information here
Melbourne Storm Financials

There is more:
Melbourne Storm have been independently valued in excess of $30 million after the club’s three owners agreed to allow a fourth prominent Victorian businessman to buy a stake in the side – Brett Ralph, the owner of transport company Jet Couriers.
It is believed the owners are also in talks to bring in a fifth shareholder, although it is understood that party is not Toronto Wolfpack owner David Argyle, despite part-owner Matthew Tripp holding talks with Argyle over a potential partnership between the NRL and Super League clubs.
 

Teen Wolf

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Tweet says "for a T20I" but I believe it's the biggest crowd for a standalone women's cricket match of any kind in Australia. Not aware of any peculiarities from back in the day like that 1920s football one.

Nevertheless, the scheduling for the group stage of the tournament is pretty lame. I find it hard to believe they wouldn't have got a much better turnout for this first match if it was played at Adelaide Oval, for instance. Likewise Aus v NZ at 3pm on a Monday at Junction Oval... would've been perfect as a Sunday game at the Gabba.
 

The_Wookie

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Melbourne Storm Financials

There is more:
Melbourne Storm have been independently valued in excess of $30 million after the club’s three owners agreed to allow a fourth prominent Victorian businessman to buy a stake in the side – Brett Ralph, the owner of transport company Jet Couriers.
It is believed the owners are also in talks to bring in a fifth shareholder, although it is understood that party is not Toronto Wolfpack owner David Argyle, despite part-owner Matthew Tripp holding talks with Argyle over a potential partnership between the NRL and Super League clubs.
 

BringBackTorps

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Sport24 South Africa website 21.2.20

"Super Rugby's Crisis"

Following the RU World Cup, there has been a large exodus of quality Aust., Sth. African, & NZ players from the Super Rugby competition- to the much richer clubs in Britain, France & Japan. This exodus includes not only players at the end of their careers, but also quality players in their prime.

Not surprisingly, Super Rugby has "alarmingly declining attendances" in SA, Aust., & NZ; & poor ratings (particularly in Aust.) cf. previous years. The problems may accelerate.
Many fans don't have an interest if too many teams have "low quality" RU "journeyman or rank rookies" playing in the Super Rugby comp.
The 4 Aust. Super Rugby teams have lost all their first 6 matches against foreign teams, some with very poor performances.

The apparent dire state/fading prestige of the current Super Rugby comp. may contribute to a poor Broadcast rights agreement for RA (Fox Sports has withdrawn its Bid, bit it might be a negotiating ploy).

 
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