Play Nice 2020 Non AFL Admin, Crowds, Ratings, Participation etc thread

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jatz14

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I'm not even remotely thinking of it like the AFL. It's the A League so I'm thinking of it like the A League

My original point is the A League could well be better off with lower TPP and a far greater share of players being younger.

I suspect it would lose no net interest and could even increase revenues as you'd be able sign kids for longer than journey men and even get extra transfer fee revenues.
Transfer fees are the A league golden goose. Pump 20 year olds through, tell them they have 5 years to generate international interest. Replace them at 25 with more 20 year olds.

They are a feeder league, but they don't act like it, and it costs them.

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BringBackTorps

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1. According to the usually knowledgeable SBS (Soccer Broadcasting Spruikers), the A League owners have lost, since 2005 to this 2019/20 season, collectively, "over $500m".


The last estimate, IIRC in 2019, was from the respected sports' economist J. Stensholt in The Australian- who wrote the total losses of all the Clubs was c. $350m.
Can anyone explain the large disparity?


2. The Age M.Lynch 12.9

The impasse between the players & A League clubs over the size of pay cuts for 2020/21 season shows few signs of resolution- & may force the FFA to try to "impose" an "agreement" (but if many players are unhappy, many would decide to play overseas for higher $- gutting the quality of the A League).

FFA's J. Johnson also confirms there is no guarantee the A League will resume in December- may be in Feb.2021, due to covid-19 restrictions.


Will Foxtel renege on it s new A League Rights' deal, if the season doesn't start in December 2020?
Foxtel won't be happy with a Feb.2021 start, competing much more against the AFL & NRL seasons- siphoning off more viewers if the A League has less clean air from the AFL & NRL.
 
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Kwality

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According to the usually knowledgeable SBS (Soccer Broadcasting Spruikers), the A League owners have lost, since 2005 to this 2019/20 season, collectively, "over $500m".


The last estimate, IIRC in 2019, was from the respected sports' economist J. Stensholt in The Australian- who wrote the total losses of all the Clubs was c. $350m.
Can anyone explain the large disparity?
The body accounting for the loss is not public, does not report as say the Broncos or Eagles must, so they are guesstimates +/- 50%.
I dont know anything beyond whats in the public domain, e.g the Lederer family have an interest in GWS, https://www.lederergroup.com.au/
 

NoobPie

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1. According to the usually knowledgeable SBS (Soccer Broadcasting Spruikers), the A League owners have lost, since 2005 to this 2019/20 season, collectively, "over $500m".


The last estimate, IIRC in 2019, was from the respected sports' economist J. Stensholt in The Australian- who wrote the total losses of all the Clubs was c. $350m.
Can anyone explain the large disparity?
The estimates are reasonably wild guesses


2. The Age M.Lynch 12.9

The impasse between the players & A League clubs over the size of pay cuts for 2020/21 season shows few signs of resolution- & may force the FFA to try to "impose" an "agreement" (but if many players are unhappy, many would decide to play overseas for higher $- gutting the quality of the A League).

FFA's J. Johnson also confirms there is no guarantee the A League will resume in December- may be in Feb.2021, due to covid-19 restrictions.


Will Foxtel renege on it s new A League Rights' deal, if the season doesn't start in December 2020?
Foxtel won't be happy with a Feb.2021 start, competing much more against the AFL & NRL seasons- siphoning off more viewers if the A League has less clean air from the AFL & NRL.
very much doubt it. apparently the deal doesn't even include production costs....and it includes socceroos WCQs and matildas games. They've already saved an enormous amount of money from their old soccer contract
 

Our Game

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1. According to the usually knowledgeable SBS (Soccer Broadcasting Spruikers), the A League owners have lost, since 2005 to this 2019/20 season, collectively, "over $500m".


The last estimate, IIRC in 2019, was from the respected sports' economist J. Stensholt in The Australian- who wrote the total losses of all the Clubs was c. $350m.

Can anyone explain the large disparity?


Most of the "owners" would be writing off the losses as tax deductions though companies they own!
 

Rob

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The body accounting for the loss is not public, does not report as say the Broncos or Eagles must, so they are guesstimates +/- 50%.
Yeah, these are small private companies, they're not required to submit financial reports to ASIC in the same way public companies (like AFL clubs) do. And in any case, i'd imagine a lot of these companies would have injections from private trusts to soak up the losses, or consolidated into larger groups for the same reason. So financials might not be that helpful in any case.
 

NoobPie

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Yeah, these are small private companies, they're not required to submit financial reports to ASIC in the same way public companies (like AFL clubs) do. And in any case, i'd imagine a lot of these companies would have injections from private trusts to soak up the losses, or consolidated into larger groups for the same reason. So financials might not be that helpful in any case.

To that extent, A League franchise losses are effectively tax payer subsidised
 

Rob

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To that extent, A League franchise losses are effectively tax payer subsidised
Well, to an extent in that they're deductible against other income (assuming it's set up in the right way, which it probably is).

Profitable clubs would pay tax though - which I believe the Victory is (or has been).
 

NoobPie

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Well, to an extent in that they're deductible against other income (assuming it's set up in the right way, which it probably is).

Profitable clubs would pay tax though - which I believe the Victory is (or has been).
Pretty sure Victory have a constitution to not pay dividends to the owners....not sure what the tax implications are but, certainly, they would be the only franchise that may have paid taxes at some point
 

Rob

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Pretty sure Victory have a constitution to not pay dividends to the owners....not sure what the tax implications are but, certainly, they would be the only franchise that may have paid taxes at some point
I'd be astounded if it did.....so if it sold the next Messi for $50 million they wouldn't be able to pay out shareholders? Nah, they wouldn't be that stupid.

Funnily enough, they're actually a public company so you could get hold of their financials if you really wanted a look. It might be that someone has done that already and they're on the web somewhere.

Edit: Wookie's already done it!

 

NoobPie

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I'd be astounded if it did.....so if it sold the next Messi for $50 million they wouldn't be able to pay out shareholders? Nah, they wouldn't be that stupid.

Funnily enough, they're actually a public company so you could get hold of their financials if you really wanted a look. It might be that someone has done that already and they're on the web somewhere.

Edit: Wookie's already done it!

The thing is, that's never going to happen anyway so we'll never know. CFG can put players on the types of contracts that could result in larger transfer fees but even these will be hens teeth

The all time record for the A League is apparently 1.4M euros...



Even in the leagues the A League has fantasised about being at the level of like the J-League and K League there's never been a transfer over 7.5 euro and they average 1 or 2 a year over 2million....


 

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Rob

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The thing is, that's never going to happen anyway so we'll never know. CFG can put players on the types of contracts that could result in larger transfer fees but even these will be hens teeth

The all time record for the A League is apparently 1.4M euros...



Even in the leagues the A League has fantasised about being at the level of like the J-League and K League there's never been a transfer over 7.5 euro and they average 1 or 2 a year over 2million....


That's not really my point - more that these shareholders are putting millions in, you really think they'd want a clause in there guaranteeing that they'd never see a cent of it back? Nah.
Of note, having a read of the Victory's financials and over time they've made a cumulative loss of about $2.5M. They may never have actually paid any tax at all.
 

NoobPie

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That's not really my point - more that these shareholders are putting millions in, you really think they'd want a clause in there guaranteeing that they'd never see a cent of it back? Nah.
Of note, having a read of the Victory's financials and over time they've made a cumulative loss of about $2.5M. They may never have actually paid any tax at all.

I have read previously that Victory co-owners have signed off on a constitution that prevents them from extracting dividends. I have no idea how that actually binds them in a legal sense if at all (probably not at all)

I suspect if it came to it they could sell off shares and achieve a similar outcome

BTW, I wasn't contesting your point....just thought I'd contest the idea (which I know wasn't your point) that there is some possibility of freakishly large transfer fee. The reality is the only clubs / leagues that receive them are the ones that already have a lot of money
 

Kwality

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That's not really my point - more that these shareholders are putting millions in, you really think they'd want a clause in there guaranteeing that they'd never see a cent of it back? Nah.
Of note, having a read of the Victory's financials and over time they've made a cumulative loss of about $2.5M. They may never have actually paid any tax at all.
5 years back but:

The journo is a soccer hack, so you can take the numbers as maybe, its an unlisted public company as I understand so the numbers are available for a fee.
 

Rob

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5 years back but:

The journo is a soccer hack, so you can take the numbers as maybe, its an unlisted public company as I understand so the numbers are available for a fee.
Yeah, but it doesn't necessarily mean they paid tax as they may have used prior year losses to offset it.
 

Bjo187

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You would think there would be well in excess of 50k nsw and queenslanders in adelaide and its a one off game so of course it should sell out.
 

manicmagpie

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Seven (and now Foxtel) making good on their threats to withhold money from Cricket Australia:

https://www.theage.com.au/sport/cri...ox-refuse-to-pay-in-full-20200915-p55vo2.html

The debt-laden Seven would not comment on how much it had paid but sources said it was less than $25m. The network is due to make its three final payments in November, December and January but managing director James Warburton declared it would not make those instalments, effectively valuing the free-to-air rights at a quarter of their $82m annual value.
 

Kwality

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The NRL have another round of cost cuts*, another $50 mil:

'The NRL informed staff on Monday morning of plans to cut 25 per cent of the organisations’s workforce in a bid to shave up to $50 million.
NRL chief executive Andrew Abdo addressed staff over a Zoom conference, laying bare the extent of cost cuts at Rugby League Central.

The NRL had foreshadowed savage cuts as the code attempted to shore up its financial position in the wake of the coronavirus.
The NRL said the changes already announced had resulted in their executive team being reduced from 11 members to eight.'


* still no agreement on player payments going forward.
 

TWLS

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The NRL have another round of cost cuts*, another $50 mil:

'The NRL informed staff on Monday morning of plans to cut 25 per cent of the organisations’s workforce in a bid to shave up to $50 million.
NRL chief executive Andrew Abdo addressed staff over a Zoom conference, laying bare the extent of cost cuts at Rugby League Central.

The NRL had foreshadowed savage cuts as the code attempted to shore up its financial position in the wake of the coronavirus.
The NRL said the changes already announced had resulted in their executive team being reduced from 11 members to eight.'


* still no agreement on player payments going forward.
In todays Australian Newspaper- the paper edition - The back page NRL news leads with - NRL has 3 billion call to go down private road- by Brent Read.
A private Consultancy firm is handling the basics for the ARL Commission. The NRL Competition as a whole is initially valued at 2.4 Billion the article said.
Apparently other sports overseas have been involved with this type of set up. We live in interesting times.
 

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