Play Nice 2020 Non AFL Admin, Crowds, Ratings, Participation etc thread

Remove this Banner Ad

Log in to remove this ad.

Gigantor

Brownlow Medallist
May 13, 2012
15,020
5,114
AFL Club
GWS
Other Teams
Brumbies, Socceroos
Foreign investors betting on Australia producing talent sad you think different - of course they putting money on it....
Once up on a time, Australia's richest mining magnates each owned a team.
Those days are gone.
Now we get anonymous overseas bidders, i.e. money launderers and others hoping to get access to Australian real estate.
Personally, I wouldn't hang my hat on that.
As for transfer fees, well, to quote one smart bloke: Tell 'im he's dreamin'!!
 

Pippen94

All Australian
Jun 12, 2019
628
123
AFL Club
Sydney
Once up on a time, Australia's richest mining magnates each owned a team.
Those days are gone.
Now we get anonymous overseas bidders, i.e. money launderers and others hoping to get access to Australian real estate.
Personally, I wouldn't hang my hat on that.
As for transfer fees, well, to quote one smart bloke: Tell 'im he's dreamin'!!
World is bigger than afl bubble;
 

threenewpadlocks

Brownlow Medallist
Sep 10, 2012
11,038
14,238
Melbourne
AFL Club
Western Bulldogs
World is bigger than afl bubble;
The fact that Mooy was sold for more than Man City's initial investment is actually a bad thing, not a good thing, because it means that the difference in profit isn't retained by Australian soccer as a concept (ie the seller wasn't an Australian owner or an owner in which the only club they own at all is an Australian one)? Everyone in this thread knows who Mooy is and it's weird that you're promoting it as a positive as a result.
 

Pippen94

All Australian
Jun 12, 2019
628
123
AFL Club
Sydney
The fact that Mooy was sold for more than Man City's initial investment is actually a bad thing, not a good thing, because it means that the difference in profit isn't retained by Australian soccer as a concept (ie the seller wasn't an Australian owner or an owner in which the only club they own at all is an Australian one)? Everyone in this thread knows who Mooy is and it's weird that you're promoting it as a positive as a result.
Argument has gone from a league clubs can't make money from players to OK, they can but it's bad because owners are foreign. Ignoring there can be local owners, if league allows locals to be paid to play & develops future socceroos how is this a bad thing??
 

Gigantor

Brownlow Medallist
May 13, 2012
15,020
5,114
AFL Club
GWS
Other Teams
Brumbies, Socceroos
World is bigger than afl bubble;
Case in point.
City took him for nothing.
Not one cent flowed back into Australian soccer.
You're making the argument for me! You are backing me up 100%!
I repeat: Tell 'im he's dreamin'!!
The fact is, Australian soccer is broke and about to get broker, and no amount of wishful thinking will change it.
 

Pippen94

All Australian
Jun 12, 2019
628
123
AFL Club
Sydney
Case in point.
City took him for nothing.
Not one cent flowed back into Australian soccer.
You're making the argument for me! You are backing me up 100%!
I repeat: Tell 'im he's dreamin'!!
The fact is, Australian soccer is broke and about to get broker, and no amount of wishful thinking will change it.
In space of a post you've gone from nobody will pick players up from lowly a league to it's bad because money goes overseas (I think you stole above poster's angle).
I wonder how many premier league teams have foreign owners? Those fans don't care because they get to watch professional comp & locals get paid to play - so much for no cent flowing back.
Why so negative??
 

Gigantor

Brownlow Medallist
May 13, 2012
15,020
5,114
AFL Club
GWS
Other Teams
Brumbies, Socceroos
In space of a post you've gone from nobody will pick players up from lowly a league to it's bad because money goes overseas (I think you stole above poster's angle).
I wonder how many premier league teams have foreign owners? Those fans don't care because they get to watch professional comp & locals get paid to play - so much for no cent flowing back.
Why so negative??
No - you're not listening mate.
I said nothing will flow back to Australian soccer, certainly nothing within the realms of the wishful thinking of the new CEO (recalling that A-League clubs have always been able to earn transfer fees from overseas sales).
So why do they earn bugger all?
Well, in case you missed my first post on the subject, here it is again:

Tell 'im he's dreamin'!!
Nothing stopping A-League clubs selling players overseas now.
So why isn't $40 million flowing into Australia right now from transfer fees?
1. Talent or lack thereof.
2. Short term contracts mean players can move to India and Bangladesh for free.
3. Did someone mention India and Bangladesh?
4. A top European club buying a young player from the Ajax Academy is one thing, but as if any of those clubs are going to view an A-League academy in the same light.
5. You would have to be the dumbest player agent in the world to sign your young, up and coming star to an A-League club on a long term deal without a quick and easy release clause if a Euro club comes knocking.
6. A club like Man City doesn't have to pay a cent for any young player coming through melbourne city - takes him for nothing - will onsell once he's in Europe.

Once again, tell 'im he's dreamin'!!
 

BobbyMorri

Community Leader
May 4, 2009
7,855
5,920
Tasmania
AFL Club
Sydney
Other Teams
Scunny, Furth
Tell 'im he's dreamin'!!
Nothing stopping A-League clubs selling players overseas now.
So why isn't $40 million flowing into Australia right now from transfer fees?
1. Talent or lack thereof.
2. Short term contracts mean players can move to India and Bangladesh for free.
3. Did someone mention India and Bangladesh?
4. A top European club buying a young player from the Ajax Academy is one thing, but as if any of those clubs are going to view an A-League academy in the same light.
5. You would have to be the dumbest player agent in the world to sign your young, up and coming star to an A-League club on a long term deal without a quick and easy release clause if a Euro club comes knocking.
6. A club like Man City doesn't have to pay a cent for any young player coming through melbourne city - takes him for nothing - will onsell once he's in Europe.

Once again, tell 'im he's dreamin'!!
it is a plan to increase to J-league levels(so not a fantasy number). You gotta start somewhere. You would have been dreaming 10 years ago if you thought Newcastle Utd would pay 20 mil for a player from the MLS. that happened last year. It is not a complete fantasy

but. you are not wrong about the issues. For me, I dont know if that is a solid aim. transfers should be the icing, not the cake. You don't want to get to a stage where young products are held back in Australia and their development stalls. And I think the biggest issue is, again, money. You can fix short term contracts and clauses by paying players more money to basically trade away these "bonuses". but you can't build a business reliant on transfer incomes and you certainly can't afford a dud on a huge contract just because of this either.
 

Gigantor

Brownlow Medallist
May 13, 2012
15,020
5,114
AFL Club
GWS
Other Teams
Brumbies, Socceroos
it is a plan to increase to J-league levels(so not a fantasy number).
Clearly it is a fantasy number, a bit of a wish list.
A-League clubs have always been able to sell players overseas, but the amount of transfer fees earned over a 15 year stretch is negligible.
Now all of a sudden, that's' going to jump from an average of about $800,000 per annum to $40 million per annum?
Yeh, it's fantasy all right, especially with the A-League at its lowest ebb in its 15 year history
Just reading now, two more A-League players are about to sign with the Indian league - and yet again - zero transfer dollars involved.
So players going to India and Bangladesh, for zero transfer dollars, but wait - we're going to start selling players to the big European clubs for tens of millions of dollars?
Pure fantasy.
 

(Log in to remove this ad.)

BobbyMorri

Community Leader
May 4, 2009
7,855
5,920
Tasmania
AFL Club
Sydney
Other Teams
Scunny, Furth
Clearly it is a fantasy number, a bit of a wish list.
A-League clubs have always been able to sell players overseas, but the amount of transfer fees earned over a 15 year stretch is negligible.
Now all of a sudden, that's' going to jump from an average of about $800,000 per annum to $40 million per annum?
Yeh, it's fantasy all right, especially with the A-League at its lowest ebb in its 15 year history
Just reading now, two more A-League players are about to sign with the Indian league - and yet again - zero transfer dollars involved.
So players going to India and Bangladesh, for zero transfer dollars, but wait - we're going to start selling players to the big European clubs for tens of millions of dollars?
Pure fantasy.
of course it was zero income. the players are not getting paid and are free to do what they want. and you are just repeating yourself with everything else.

the a-league is indeed at its lowest ebb atm. You don't change things by standing still. the fact is, transfer income everywhere is stupid and way worse than 5 years ago. IF the a-league improves the quality by several notches, and the age of players, pay the players and incentivise longer, clause free, contracts, then perhaps they can raise income to match the best in Asia. personally, can't see it but again, I couldn't see anyone pay 20 mil for MLS player. transfers are stupidity stupid and make no sense is something I learned a long time ago. the biggest issue is the above(quality of player etc), not the transfer side of things

I also think the FFA said this, and they would be all for a player development angle.
 

NoobPie

Norm Smith Medallist
Sep 21, 2016
6,269
4,296
AFL Club
Collingwood
Just for the benefit of the fantasists, here are the total value of "outgoing" transfers in 2019 in $USD. Note that this includes clubs within leagues (so no increase in revenue from outside) and is not net of incoming transfers.

The J-League had $29.4M in 2019 which was 75% higher than the previous year. The J-League has over half the revenues of the AFL, it is several times bigger than the A League.

1601522665349.png


It is indeed delusional to think the A League will ever get close to Japan and Japan's annual outgoing transfers are about the same as the A League just lost in annual TV revenues
 

jatz14

Norm Smith Medallist
Dec 13, 2011
7,721
8,931
WA
AFL Club
West Coast
Other Teams
Perth Glory W-League
Papas has bought a second division Greek club with the intention of setting it up as a place young Australians can go to get experience in Europe, and develop.

1. Doubt transfer fees are involved. He wants them young.

2. Wonder what the locals think. Imagine someone buying WSW, and stating it's to be filled with young Kiwi players. Locals need not apply. Perhaps they are saying, foreign investment, Yee hah?



On moto g(6) plus using BigFooty.com mobile app
 

BobbyMorri

Community Leader
May 4, 2009
7,855
5,920
Tasmania
AFL Club
Sydney
Other Teams
Scunny, Furth
Papas has bought a second division Greek club with the intention of setting it up as a place young Australians can go to get experience in Europe, and develop.

1. Doubt transfer fees are involved. He wants them young.

2. Wonder what the locals think. Imagine someone buying WSW, and stating it's to be filled with young Kiwi players. Locals need not apply. Perhaps they are saying, foreign investment, Yee hah?



On moto g(6) plus using BigFooty.com mobile app
depends if they are successful.

sports fans are very fickle as long as that happens.
 

Gigantor

Brownlow Medallist
May 13, 2012
15,020
5,114
AFL Club
GWS
Other Teams
Brumbies, Socceroos
of course it was zero income. the players are not getting paid and are free to do what they want. and you are just repeating yourself with everything else.

the a-league is indeed at its lowest ebb atm. You don't change things by standing still. the fact is, transfer income everywhere is stupid and way worse than 5 years ago. IF the a-league improves the quality by several notches, and the age of players, pay the players and incentivise longer, clause free, contracts, then perhaps they can raise income to match the best in Asia. personally, can't see it but again, I couldn't see anyone pay 20 mil for MLS player. transfers are stupidity stupid and make no sense is something I learned a long time ago. the biggest issue is the above(quality of player etc), not the transfer side of things

I also think the FFA said this, and they would be all for a player development angle.
But even with your reasonable suggestions of what is possible, a lot of fantasy is still involved.
Let's take release clauses.
So yes, A-League clubs have to start tieing down talent with 3 or 4 year contracts (at the moment, over half are on one year deals, meaning they all walk away for nothing at the end of their contracts).
I'm a manager and have a young socceroo who is already attracting interest from overseas. He's 19 years old.
I would have to be the dumbest player agent in the world if I was going to let some pissant A-League club tie him down for 4 years paying a pittance, with no release clause.
That ain't going to happen. I can tell you right now, that will NEVER happen.
So bang, there goes that potential $10 mill transfer before he kicked a ball in anger.
I mean, it wasn't long ago that even a big Australian club like the Victory, had to let one of their promising youngsters walk for free to join one of the Dutch academies.
I mean seriously, if a big A-League club can't even tie down a 16/17 year old for one year, what are the chances of any other club tieing down a promsing 19 year old for two years with no release clause?
Buckleys and none.
What's more likely is that a serviceable A-League player, in mid 20s, maybe a strong, tall centre half catches the eye of some Asian team who desperately needs a defender, so they might grab him mid season.
So far so good, except he only has 6 months left on his contract, AND, his contract is worth a pittance anyway, so what is the Asian club going to pay as a transfer fee? Couple hundred grand? Tops.
 

Pippen94

All Australian
Jun 12, 2019
628
123
AFL Club
Sydney
Just for the benefit of the fantasists, here are the total value of "outgoing" transfers in 2019 in $USD. Note that this includes clubs within leagues (so no increase in revenue from outside) and is not net of incoming transfers.

The J-League had $29.4M in 2019 which was 75% higher than the previous year. The J-League has over half the revenues of the AFL, it is several times bigger than the A League.

View attachment 974648

It is indeed delusional to think the A League will ever get close to Japan and Japan's annual outgoing transfers are about the same as the A League just lost in annual TV revenues
What is that table? Is that part of transfers paid to association?
 

Pippen94

All Australian
Jun 12, 2019
628
123
AFL Club
Sydney
Clearly it is a fantasy number, a bit of a wish list.
A-League clubs have always been able to sell players overseas, but the amount of transfer fees earned over a 15 year stretch is negligible.
Now all of a sudden, that's' going to jump from an average of about $800,000 per annum to $40 million per annum?
Yeh, it's fantasy all right, especially with the A-League at its lowest ebb in its 15 year history
Just reading now, two more A-League players are about to sign with the Indian league - and yet again - zero transfer dollars involved.
So players going to India and Bangladesh, for zero transfer dollars, but wait - we're going to start selling players to the big European clubs for tens of millions of dollars?
Pure fantasy.
Not true - transfer fees limit to a tiny amount to prevent top clubs stripping weaker teams of best players.
 

Pippen94

All Australian
Jun 12, 2019
628
123
AFL Club
Sydney
of course it was zero income. the players are not getting paid and are free to do what they want. and you are just repeating yourself with everything else.

the a-league is indeed at its lowest ebb atm. You don't change things by standing still. the fact is, transfer income everywhere is stupid and way worse than 5 years ago. IF the a-league improves the quality by several notches, and the age of players, pay the players and incentivise longer, clause free, contracts, then perhaps they can raise income to match the best in Asia. personally, can't see it but again, I couldn't see anyone pay 20 mil for MLS player. transfers are stupidity stupid and make no sense is something I learned a long time ago. the biggest issue is the above(quality of player etc), not the transfer side of things

I also think the FFA said this, and they would be all for a player development angle.
Soccer has outgrown a league just like it had nsl. Next step is promotion & relegation. Investors are still buying into league despite all the ranting here. Transfer fees are a big part of this.
 

Gigantor

Brownlow Medallist
May 13, 2012
15,020
5,114
AFL Club
GWS
Other Teams
Brumbies, Socceroos
My god that is comedy gold! The delusion!
Well, the FFA, A-League and most of the clubs are flat broke, so in that sense, there might be some sense in stating that soccer has outgrown the A-League.
Apparently, there are NPL clubs much richer than the majority of A-League clubs (but what are the chances of the current owners allowing these clubs into their cosy little comp?)
 

Remove this Banner Ad