Play Nice 2020 Non AFL Admin, Crowds, Ratings, Participation etc thread

[RedV3x]

The writing has been on the wall for grass roots participation both seniors and junior RL at community level for quite a long time, its a tough game and it doesn't fit the current generational wrap your child in cotton wool mentality of smaller families and western living

Its a TV game.

In that regard it's similar to the NFL in the U.S.A.

The NRL have the luxury of Polynesian footballers in spades,

One problem the NRL has is the low number of Australians playing.

 

[Les Malone]

In that regard it's similar to the NFL in the U.S.A.



One problem the NRL has is the low number of Australians playing.

i am pretty sure its not what they want, but its what they are going to get, that doesn't mean of course the comp will fall on its arse, but it will not have the base below it like it traditionally has, does it mean less support - who knows.

you can not get around the fact it is a hard tough tackle based game, how do you sell that to parents, its actually an advantage our game has - is that it is always been based around going the ball and not the man, but in recent years with the huge tackle counts i don't think we can claim that, ugly tackle laden games with huge packs are not my idea of footy, i can watch rugby for that

 

[BringBackTorps]

1. The Australian L. Shanahan 29.5

For the 3 seasons 2020-2022, both Nine & Foxtel have each received a 30% discount, cf current pre-covid-19 NRL Rights' deals.

For the 5 years 2023-2027, Foxtel will pay the NRL c. $1b. (Nine FTA new deal only goes to 2022).

sportsindustry (@footyindustryAU) | Twitter

The latest Tweets from sportsindustry (@footyindustryAU): "News Wrap | Friday, May 8th | WA AFL teams miss out on home games early, India still plan on coming to Australia, Kayo subs take a 30% hit, RA solvency questions https://t.co/ZI3V1TYArR"

twitter.com

(Go to Sports Industry tweet 29.5- then Click on "The Australian $1b NRL Broadcast Deal Kicks off").


2. It has been reported recently the NRL owed its broadcasters $80m. Does anyone know the details of this?
(IIRC, the NRL asked its broadcasters, & was granted, a $30m advance Rights payment- not a loan- in 2017).

 

[Rob]

In that regard it's similar to the NFL in the U.S.A.



One problem the NRL has is the low number of Australians playing.

Which isn't necessarily a problem if you're ambition isn't mass participation. It may well be that the NRL have made the decision to run the game purely as a spectator sport, because the ROI on encouraging participation is so poor.

As you say, like the NFL. In saying that, American football still attracts the top junior athletes, even if average Joey doesn't want to play. The NRL still need to position rugby league so that it attracts good athletes, otherwise the standard at the top will decline.

 

[Gigantor]

Which isn't necessarily a problem if you're ambition isn't mass participation. It may well be that the NRL have made the decision to run the game purely as a spectator sport, because the ROI on encouraging participation is so poor.

As you say, like the NFL. In saying that, American football still attracts the top junior athletes, even if average Joey doesn't want to play. The NRL still need to position rugby league so that it attracts good athletes, otherwise the standard at the top will decline.

All good points.
Even with such poor participation, the NRL doesn't seem to have any trouble attracting good players to its ranks.
Its ethnic make up is slightly unusual. You can either see it as a disadvantage or an endless supply of footballers of the requisite standard.

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

All good points.
Even with such poor participation, the NRL doesn't seem to have any trouble attracting good players to its ranks.
Its ethnic make up is slightly unusual. You can either see it as a disadvantage or an endless supply of footballers of the requisite standard.

As long as they are the biggest sport in those areas they’ll always get the cream of the athletes regardless of participation numbers.
Edit I don’t think the ethnic make up will matter in the same way it doesn’t in basketball and NFL. Same way height doesn’t in basketball. (avg NBA player is 6’7)

 

[Pippen94]

Looks like it got 85K on gem across Melbourne, Perth and Adelaide....355K on foxtel so a bit over 1.2M all up

Solid ratings but given what was exerted to get the game back on early it is hardly a triumph. The Gem numbers are similar to what the AFL gets in Sydney and Brisbane on Friday nights every other week when it is up against the NRL.

There is no NRL team in Adelaide or Perth. Plus two AFL teams both in Sydney & seqld

 

[Pippen94]

1.3 million reasons to smile: NRL return most-watched since 2014

NRL return delivers bumper TV audience.

www.google.com

 

[Les Malone]

As long as they are the biggest sport in those areas they’ll always get the cream of the athletes regardless of participation numbers.
Edit I don’t think the ethnic make up will matter in the same way it doesn’t in basketball and NFL. Same way height doesn’t in basketball. (avg NBA player is 6’7)

look it doesn't matter, RL's traditional demographic was working class Anglo/Irish Australian families in NSW and QLD who probably had 4/5 kids or more, that was a couple of generations ago, that demographic has smaller families now is more mobile and probably better off and their kids don't use or need the game to 'breakout', the islander community has taken its place along with the indigenous community

so RL will continue to get the cream of those athletes in those areas

 

[RedV3x]

look it doesn't matter,

It certainly does matter.
In the non rl states, Australian Football has managed to maintain it's place despite continuous immigration.
In Queensland the contact codes have maintained their their place.
In NSW, the contact codes have lost out big time to soccer when it comes to participation.
The AFL has shown that junior participation is vital to obtaining a professional level.
Even with the best case scenario, the NRL cannot go anywhere with decreasing junior participation.

so RL will continue to get the cream of those athletes in those areas

No! the NRL may continue to find replacement players but "cream athletes" is hardly an apt descroption.

 

[RedV3x]

As long as they are the biggest sport in those areas

They may have the highest profile sport but they are far from the biggest participation sport and that participation is dropping.
Participation is a long term project. The AFL targets participation because kids drag their parents along to elite games.
The NRL may have a long-term market with adults but without junior particpation that won't be refreshed.

they’ll always get the cream of the athletes

Poor choice of words, but finding people with the ability to play NRL doesn't clash too much with other codes certainly not athletics.
Not many NRL players are suited to other codes except union and it's more of a case of keeping those interested in rl then playing rl.
If the huge soccer contingent swapped to rl then that wouldn't affect the NRL in player quality but would be a huge boost to crowds etc.

I don’t think the ethnic make up will matter

The function of elite professional sport is to act as a role model to attract followers especially young followers.
It is much easier for a sport to flourish if it has national icons as against imported players.

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

They may have the highest profile sport but they are far from the biggest participation sport and that participation is dropping.
Participation is a long term project. The AFL targets participation because kids drag their parents along to elite games.
The NRL may have a long-term market with adults but without junior particpation that won't be refreshed.



Poor choice of words, but finding people with the ability to play NRL doesn't clash too much with other codes certainly not athletics.
Not many NRL players are suited to other codes except union and it's more of a case of keeping those interested in rl then playing rl.
If the huge soccer contingent swapped to rl then that wouldn't affect the NRL in player quality but would be a huge boost to crowds etc.



The function of elite professional sport is to act as a role model to attract followers especially young followers.
It is much easier for a sport to flourish if it has national icons as against imported players.

There are some absolute freak athletes in the NRL who would be brilliant in our sport. Crowds may improve but compare Sydney TV ratings for NRL and Melbourne’s for AFL. These kids playing soccer probably still follow the sport but it’s just not a lot of fun getting smashed by bigger kids all the time. If they are good enough generally they will find them selves gravitating to League. Same happens in America with their sports.

Have a look at the EPL. They are doing alright even though they are being dominated by foreigners plus give it another 20 year and probably half the competition will be of African decent.

 

[NoobPie]

There is no NRL team in Adelaide or Perth. Plus two AFL teams both in Sydney & seqld

Hmmmm.....so which is it....nobody is interested in GWS and the Suns orrrr.....?????

Bottom line is, for all the loud noises coming out of NRL Land and even some hand wringing here about the free kick it was getting, these are pretty modest numbers

And they have signed a deal that massively cuts what they were going to get.....(but not as much as the soccer ;-) )

 

[Kwality]

Interesting observations from 9 CEO on the media rights discussions & the role of the clubs v the NRL admin plus more, I've just cherrypicked what I thought relevant, worth a read in full:

Marks stands by claims he would have walked away from rugby league had Nine's vision not aligned with the NRL's. He also stands by the fact he would have battled it out in a courtroom if it had come to it.

"There was this mentality that the NRL was superior," he said of the Todd Greenberg era.

"We don’t buy the NRL, we buy a competition of 16 clubs, State of Origin and grand final. OK, the NRL is the organisation that we deal with, but the competition that you’re buying is the players and the clubs - that’s what you’re buying.

"There was this superior attitude from the NRL towards the clubs, towards us, the broadcasters. Out of this crisis, all of that has been put behind us and everyone is recognising what is actually important."

There's no doubt the bottom line was of greatest importance to the free-to-air network, but it wasn't just a reduced rate Nine wanted before re-linking its future with the sport.

"Why do people watch rugby league?" Marks asks after securing an estimated $70 million in savings over the next three years.
"Because they want to watch Parra play the Bulldogs. That tribalism of the game is its actual strength. And how do you enhance tribalism? You enhance it by empowering the clubs to do more. If money is going into things like administration, or the bunker, or integrity units, or multiple referees or a digital platform - money isn't going to clubs.


In a series of meetings, ARL Commission chairman Peter V'landys managed to provide a blueprint Nine was willing to invest in. It included a major reduction of costs at head office, a guarantee the clubs would be empowered to grow their own brands and a willingness to change an on-field product that had become stale in the eyes of many.

"I think it’s the best television sport, by far, if it is conducted in the right way," Marks said.

'There was this superior attitude': Nine boss lifts lid on NRL negotiations

Nine boss Hugh Marks provides an insight into one of the most turbulent sports rights negotiations in the country's history.

www.smh.com.au

 

[NoobPie]

Interesting observations from 9 CEO on the media rights discussions & the role of the clubs v the NRL admin plus more, I've just cherrypicked what I thought relevant, worth a read in full:

Marks stands by claims he would have walked away from rugby league had Nine's vision not aligned with the NRL's. He also stands by the fact he would have battled it out in a courtroom if it had come to it.

"There was this mentality that the NRL was superior," he said of the Todd Greenberg era.

"We don’t buy the NRL, we buy a competition of 16 clubs, State of Origin and grand final. OK, the NRL is the organisation that we deal with, but the competition that you’re buying is the players and the clubs - that’s what you’re buying.

"There was this superior attitude from the NRL towards the clubs, towards us, the broadcasters. Out of this crisis, all of that has been put behind us and everyone is recognising what is actually important."

There's no doubt the bottom line was of greatest importance to the free-to-air network, but it wasn't just a reduced rate Nine wanted before re-linking its future with the sport.

"Why do people watch rugby league?" Marks asks after securing an estimated $70 million in savings over the next three years.
"Because they want to watch Parra play the Bulldogs. That tribalism of the game is its actual strength. And how do you enhance tribalism? You enhance it by empowering the clubs to do more. If money is going into things like administration, or the bunker, or integrity units, or multiple referees or a digital platform - money isn't going to clubs.


In a series of meetings, ARL Commission chairman Peter V'landys managed to provide a blueprint Nine was willing to invest in. It included a major reduction of costs at head office, a guarantee the clubs would be empowered to grow their own brands and a willingness to change an on-field product that had become stale in the eyes of many.

"I think it’s the best television sport, by far, if it is conducted in the right way," Marks said.

'There was this superior attitude': Nine boss lifts lid on NRL negotiations

Nine boss Hugh Marks provides an insight into one of the most turbulent sports rights negotiations in the country's history.

www.smh.com.au

You've gone to a lot of effort to bold elements that you've already cherry picked.....I'd be interested to know why?

So Channel 9 have got a massive reduction in rights costs but have not extended beyond 2022.....what is he actually "investing in"?

Channel 9 wanting extra money given to the clubs and players at the expense of game development and the digital arm the NRL invested heavily in....but did not extend its commitment.....hmmmm

 

[Kwality]

You've gone to a lot of effort to bold elements that you've already cherry picked.....I'd be interested to know why?

So Channel 9 have got a massive reduction in rights costs but have not extended beyond 2022.....what is he actually "investing in"?

Channel 9 wanting extra money given to the clubs and players at the expense of game development and the digital arm the NRL invested heavily in....but did not extend its commitment.....hmmmm

I bolded the bits I considered relevant going forward, to assist those who scan only.

Reckon 9 is investing in its own future in the long term, max its flex in a changing media landscape.

The NRL admin v clubs was interesting, possibly because of Mr V'L, remove Greenberg, look for a new start on negotiations. Grant, Beattie, V'L all have had problems with the club administrations.

The digital arm is work in progress.

 

[Ned_Flanders]

I bolded the bits I considered relevant going forward, to assist those who scan only.

Reckpn 9 is investing in its own future in the long term, max its flex in a changing media landscape.

The NRL admin v clubs was interesting, possibly because of Mr V'L, remove Greenberg, look for a new start on negotiations. Grant, Beattie, V'L all have had problems with the club administrations.

The digital arm is work in progress.

yep, this is all about repositioning in preparation for where this new media landscape will lie

 

[NoobPie]

I bolded the bits I considered relevant going forward, to assist those who scan only.

Reckon 9 is investing in its own future in the long term, max its flex in a changing media landscape.

Probably. It sure isn't making an investment in rugby league!

The NRL admin v clubs was interesting, possibly because of Mr V'L, remove Greenberg, look for a new start on negotiations. Grant, Beattie, V'L all have had problems with the club administrations.

It is a red herring. Channel 9 wanted to pay less and the clubs wanted more money. In combination they killed off Greenberg.

How is a greater share of a smaller pie going to the clubs a good thing for rugby league longer term?

The digital arm is work in progress.

It is as dead as the dodo. You don't honestly think the digital arm in any meaningful sense has survived this deal do you?

yep, this is all about repositioning in preparation for where this new media landscape will lie

Lol

 

[Ned_Flanders]

Probably. It sure isn't making an investment in rugby league!




It is a red herring. Channel 9 wanted to pay less and the clubs wanted more money. In combination they killed off Greenberg.

How is a greater share of a smaller pie going to the clubs a good thing for rugby league longer term?




It is as dead as the dodo. You don't honestly think the digital arm in any meaningful sense has survived this deal do you?




Lol

The three year reduction? Absolutely, ad revenues will be ****ed for the next three years.

After that, they are hedging their bets

If streaming is where the money is at, they will want to bid on that, not on FTA.

 

[Kwality]

The three year reduction? Absolutely, ad revenues will be f’ed for the next three years.

After that, they are hedging their bets

If streaming is where the money is at, they will want to bid on that, not on FTA.

& does Telstra have some sort of option enshrined in the Foxtel deal. It will come out.

 

[RedV3x]

does Telstra have some sort of option enshrined in the Foxtel deal. It will come out.

I read somewhere where Telstra had lost $x00 million in the deal so their participation is questionable.

"In the past year or so News Corp has lent Foxtel $700 million, with Telstra giving $200 million"

"As Foxtel's future becomes ever more precarious, News has written down the value of its investment by $1.4 billion.
Telstra, which owns the other 35 per cent, has taken a $300 million hit."

Coronavirus losses may force Newscorp to rethink Foxtel business model

After a 31 per cent drop in its latest earnings, News Corporation has some big decisions to make about its Australian pay TV operator, writes Andrew Robertson.

www.abc.net.au

 

[Our Game]

Really not looking good for either Foxtel or News Corp in Australia.I expect some big changes when Rupe finally drops off the perch
Also interesting the NSW govt cancelled the refub of ANZ Stadium today so if they wanted to the AFL can still play (finals) there for the foreseeable future.

 

[Our Game]

The NRL ratings on CH 9 Friday were nothing special considering the hype of it being the ONLY live sport on.
The early game got 311,000 across the 5 capitals and the later match had 493,000 to be equal 10th with the ABCs Gardening Australia.

 

[Pippen94]

The NRL ratings on CH 9 Friday were nothing special considering the hype of it being the ONLY live sport on.
The early game got 311,000 across the 5 capitals and the later match had 493,000 to be equal 10th with the ABCs Gardening Australia.

These are good numbers anyway you spin them.

 

[The_Wookie]

These are good numbers anyway you spin them.

Not really. These are fairly average friday night numbers in these parts. Might be good for you though - Friday night ratings havent been exactly stellar for the NRL for years now.