Training 2020 Pre-Season

[SaintsSeptember]

Slight exaggeration that JWeb hits 1 out of 4 kicks. Looks a beautiful kick to me and I love it how he is so aggressive with his kicks rather than take the safe option, which is harder to hit but when it works opens up the other team. I would advocate for all our better kicks to be doing this, eg: Billings, Sincs, Clarke, Coff

Disposal Efficiency is a dodgy stat ,because , if you bomb it long to a contest it gets counted as OK.
Given what we are discussing here , if what risky said, was true it would show up in Websters disposal stats.

He DOES show up as worse than Savage ( Sav's long kicks forward are counted ok though even if they result in a turnover ) so Risky has a point, but we are talking about 1 kick in 20 worse than Savage or Battle.

In the AFL.
1st Nathan Brown ( should we play him instead of Howard ). 91%. Elite. No-one else hit the big 9.
15th Daniel McKenzie ( his couple of handballs were good ).
16th Callum Wilkie Him and Dmac 84% , similar to Howe.
22nd Shane Savage
24th Josh Battle. Him and Sav 83% , similar to Durdan, or Daniel Talia.
82nd Nick Coffield 79% Him and Carlisle a little better than Luke McDonald.
88th Jake Carlisle 78.4%
114th Paton 77.5 % Similar value to Weitering or Harry Taylor
184th Webster 74.2% similar value to Hamish Hartlett
204th Geary 73.4 % Similar number to Pierce Hanley
274th Clark 71% Very simililar to Zac Jones.
362nd Marsh 68% ( Pretty bad for a defender ).

 

[StCicatriz]

I recall Naughton was one of the best defenders in the draft.
If we'd picked him, there would have been serious melts on this forum.

Was also doing ok in stints as a fwd playing seniors for peel. But alas naughton is not who we should get hung up on

 

[gringo2011]

He is a better player than Savage - better one-on-one defender, just as attacking and I believe a more purposeful kick. He takes a lot more risk with his kicking, which you're right, sometimes dont pay off but he opens the game up more for us than someone like Savage who generally kick it down the line every time.

I disagree, he's always been about to break out but he's really just a player who is sitting around the fringe of best 22. He's been at the club since 2011 and hasn't played 100 games. For some reason he's always been given a lot of love despite only being average. He's had the odd great game but he isn't really that exceptional in any area. I would have him behind heaps of others this year. He hasn't earned a walk up start.

 

[gringo2011]

and i dont remember people on hear gnashing their teeth because the saints did not pick naughton. Never heard of him much until last year

He was a KPD, he looked amazing but we thought Snake was going to be elite and we needed mids. It made sense but you still want Clark and Coffield to be better than Acres and Dunstan, our last effort at getting a couple of first rounders.

 

[gringo2011]

Always said he looks like a Bob Murphy type.

Only if Murphy had tucked in to a heap of pies. Coffield's leg would weigh more than the young Murphy.

 

[BrutThough]

I disagree, he's always been about to break out but he's really just a player who is sitting around the fringe of best 22. He's been at the club since 2011 and hasn't played 100 games. For some reason he's always been given a lot of love despite only being average. He's had the odd great game but he isn't really that exceptional in any area. I would have him behind heaps of others this year. He hasn't earned a walk up start.

When fit, Jimmy has been in our best 22 since 2016. And the only reason he had missed games during that period is either injury or suspension - hamstrings in 2016, broken hand and eye gouging 2017, groins in 2018 and then reoccurrence of hand, soft tissue and illness last season.

I would also say he is better than average. When you look at his 2018 season, he was very good but since most others were awful, its easy to forget. Some journos had in him their AA squads at the mid point of the season. And when comparing to others on our list, he is ahead of many due to reasons already stated - can actually prevent a small/mid defender from scoring, adds run from the backline, can hit a target.

 

[AirWinmar]

I disagree, he's always been about to break out but he's really just a player who is sitting around the fringe of best 22. He's been at the club since 2011 and hasn't played 100 games. For some reason he's always been given a lot of love despite only being average. He's had the odd great game but he isn't really that exceptional in any area. I would have him behind heaps of others this year. He hasn't earned a walk up start.

The only reason I can remember in the last few years that JWeb has missed games is thru injury, so that would be the main reason he isnt up around the 120 to 140 game mark. For my feel he has been consistently good with the occasional great game

 

[triggering bro]

When fit, Jimmy has been in our best 22 since 2016. And the only reason he had missed games during that period is either injury or suspension - hamstrings in 2016, broken hand and eye gouging 2017, groins in 2018 and then reoccurrence of hand, soft tissue and illness last season.

I would also say he is better than average. When you look at his 2018 season, he was very good but since most others were awful, its easy to forget. Some journos had in him their AA squads at the mid point of the season. And when comparing to others on our list, he is ahead of many due to reasons already stated - can actually prevent a small/mid defender from scoring, adds run from the backline, can hit a target.

If we are to improve we either need our past 22 to improve or be replaced by better players. Otherwise we’ll continue to be in the wilderness for another decade.

Webster is one of many GOP’s & I reckon he’s reached his ceiling. Hopefully players such as Long, Paton, Coffield & Clarke push the likes of Webster out & improve our fortunes.

 

[King_Steele]

If we are to improve we either need our past 22 to improve or be replaced by better players. Otherwise we’ll continue to be in the wilderness for another decade.

Webster is one of many GOP’s & I reckon he’s reached his ceiling. Hopefully players such as Long, Paton, Coffield & Clarke push the likes of Webster out & improve our fortunes.

+1.

Love Jimmys aggression but you are right. I rate Paton highly.

 

[AirWinmar]

If we are to improve we either need our past 22 to improve or be replaced by better players. Otherwise we’ll continue to be in the wilderness for another decade.

Webster is one of many GOP’s & I reckon he’s reached his ceiling. Hopefully players such as Long, Paton, Coffield & Clarke push the likes of Webster out & improve our fortunes.

Agree, our best 22 needs to improve, but at the same time think that Jweb has been a good player and has some very good attributes, speed, raking left boot, good defensively, etc. With a new game plan and coach there is no reason he couldnt improve. Its awesome that we have young exciting players coming thru now and if they are better the JWeb, well he isnt going to be in the 22, but besides Clark I dont think any of them have put in a body of work so far to suggest they would be better as a hbf or bp consistently than JWeb

 

[The_Steadier]

If we are to improve we either need our past 22 to improve or be replaced by better players. Otherwise we’ll continue to be in the wilderness for another decade.

Webster is one of many GOP’s & I reckon he’s reached his ceiling. Hopefully players such as Long, Paton, Coffield & Clarke push the likes of Webster out & improve our fortunes.

If the rest of our team were as good as our backline we'd have been playing finals the last 5 years.

Improving our backline at this point would be like driving around with your handbrake on and switching to premium petrol.

Sure, in theory premium fuel will help you go faster... but in reality its not going to matter until you do something about your handbrake

 

[tomjoad]

Webster is a good player, and an underrated defender. If injuries hadn't been a consistent enough problem for him, he may have been a very good player...he has good pace and is a pretty accurate kick. Something we have desperately needed. However, I think after nearly a decade in the game, his chances may have petered out. I wouldn't be too surprised to see him gone come the season's end. Guy's like him and Sinclair really need to get it together for longer, if they are to remain in St.Kilda colours.

 

[Saint_Dos]

Disposal Efficiency is a dodgy stat ,because , if you bomb it long to a contest it gets counted as OK.

Webster DOES show up as worse than Savage ( Sav's long kicks forward are counted ok though even if they result in a turnover ) so Risky has a point, but we are talking about 1 kick in 20 worse than Savage or Battle.

In the AFL.
1st Nathan Brown ( should we play him instead of Howard ). 91%. Elite. No-one else hit the big 9.
15th Daniel McKenzie ( his couple of handballs were good ).
16th Callum Wilkie Him and Dmac 84% , similar to Howe.
22nd Shane Savage
24th Josh Battle. Him and Sav 83% , similar to Durdan, or Daniel Talia.
82nd Nick Coffield 79% Him and Carlisle a little better than Luke McDonald.
88th Jake Carlisle 78.4%
114th Paton 77.5 % Similar value to Weitering or Harry Taylor
184th Webster 74.2% similar value to Hamish Hartlett
204th Geary 73.4 % Similar number to Pierce Hanley
274th Clark 71% Very simililar to Zac Jones.
362nd Marsh 68% ( Pretty bad for a defender ).

Brown is high due to being the anchor on the switch kick which usually kicks to an uncontested mark on the other side of the field.
He is also one of Lade's "Swim Between The Flags" kickers which is one of the good things about him as he focuses on his strengths in defense are clearing the ball out under pressure or giving to someone better.

No place for Brown in round one but would be intrigued to see, given Howard's athleticism, if we do play 3 against the odd team like West Coast or Geelong who will play the 3 talls.

 

[Impatient Saint]

Webster like a lot of players got pidgeon holed as a back pocket which stifled his development. Perhaps now he is too old to change, but I would liked to have seen him moved further up the ground in his earlier years.

 

[plugger66]

Brown is high due to being the anchor on the switch kick which usually kicks to an uncontested mark on the other side of the field.
He is also one of Lade's "Swim Between The Flags" kickers which is one of the good things about him as he focuses on his strengths in defense are clearing the ball out under pressure or giving to someone better.

No place for Brown in round one but would be intrigued to see, given Howard's athleticism, if we do play 3 against the odd team like West Coast or Geelong who will play the 3 talls.

I certainly would hope not. Brown is surely back up if either Howard or Carlisle are injured or out of form. Our backline is bloody tall enough as it is.

 

[plugger66]

Webster like a lot of players got pidgeon holed as a back pocket which stifled his development. Perhaps now he is too old to change, but I would liked to have seen him moved further up the ground in his earlier years.

What’s wrong with getting pigeon holed. The fascination of thinking some are better in other spots amazing me. You obviously don’t think they try those things in match simulation. Well they do and that’s why he plays back pocket and hbf. Any reason to blame the previous coach but I’d say you are way off the Mark.

 

[PoppedCorn]

Jimmy was either leading turnovers by foot or at least top 3 in the league I think maybe couple years ago.
It was always from the low bullets across field that were getting picked off by the opp

 

[CaptainRisky]

I recall Naughton was one of the best defenders in the draft.
If we'd picked him, there would have been serious melts on this forum.

In saying that there are melts her just about every year hear

 

[PoppedCorn]

It's likes some sort of riddle !

 

[CaptainRisky]

Webster like a lot of players got pidgeon holed as a back pocket which stifled his development. Perhaps now he is too old to change, but I would liked to have seen him moved further up the ground in his earlier years.

Please dont tell me you think he could play as a mid or on a wing , blokes like him and DMac dont seem to have the smarts to find the ball , they need to be led to it ,

 

[AirWinmar]

Jimmy was either leading turnovers by foot or at least top 3 in the league I think maybe couple years ago.
It was always from the low bullets across field that were getting picked off by the opp

I checked this to 2017 and is incorrect. Interestingly Montagna was 3rd for avg turnovers in 17

 

[AirWinmar]

Please dont tell me you think he could play as a mid or on a wing , blokes like him and DMac dont seem to have the smarts to find the ball , they need to be led to it ,

Webster avg disposal in 18 was 22 -mainly kicks. How many disposals do you expect a hbf to get?

I wouldnt be opposed to the idea of him rotating thru wing. His kicking and vision can be a weapon.

He always looks to hit players up and use the footy creatively, rather than bomb it long. Would hate to have a wingman do that...

Fyi, im not JWebs dad or something, just love the way he plays

 

[CaptainRisky]

Webster avg disposal in 18 was 22 -mainly kicks. How many disposals do you expect a hbf to get?

I wouldnt be opposed to the idea of him rotating thru wing. His kicking and vision can be a weapon.

He always looks to hit players up and use the footy creatively, rather than bomb it long. Would hate to have a wingman do that...

Fyi, im not JWebs dad or something, just love the way he plays

Av 17 kicks per game and 2.7 clangers per game , I dont dislike the bloke i just think we can do better anyway all good

 

[pebblesofsand]

If he isn't fit at the start of the season, Webster will struggle to get a game.

 

[BrutThough]

Av 17 kicks per game and 2.7 clangers per game , I dont dislike the bloke i just think we can do better anyway all good

2.7 clangers per game isnt really that much - had him 175th in the league. Especially considering he is a kick first player and does take the risky kick.