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AirWinmar

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Jun 18, 2018
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Av 17 kicks per game and 2.7 clangers per game , I dont dislike the bloke i just think we can do better anyway all good :thumbsu:
Fair enough, it is positive we have guys like Coff, Clarke, Paton and Wilkie coming through and fingers crossed Roberton makes a successful return and Long so far looking very good on the hbf. All + Jweb and geary will be competing for around 4 spots. Am hopeful Clarke makes it as a mid this year that can rotate thru hbf. So minus Clarke thats 7 decent players who are competing for 4 spots..
Edit: left out Savage - 8 players for 4 spots
 
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Av 17 kicks per game and 2.7 clangers per game , I dont dislike the bloke i just think we can do better anyway all good :thumbsu:
I think Webster is a very good 1 v 1 defender, who is best suited playing deep in defence. I have seen nothing to suggest he would provide a better option further up the field than the guys already playing in those positions. My main frustration with him is too often he tries to blast very long pin point passes instead of just taking the shorter option. Longer kick =longer time in the air =more opportunity for the opposition to pick off the kick. Sometimes the shorter option is the best option
 
Apr 5, 2016
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Please dont tell me you think he could play as a mid or on a wing , blokes like him and DMac dont seem to have the smarts to find the ball , they need to be led to it ,

Thats exactly the thinking of our past coach!

He is very different to DMac and he can actually hit a target, take a mark and has a good penetrating long kick. How would we know if he could play another position, he never had the opportunity?

He was drafted as midfielder/back flanker it doesnt surprise he remained as a BP when we had 42 on our list and no one else with talent to play further up the ground.
 

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AirWinmar

Premiership Player
Jun 18, 2018
3,328
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I think Webster is a very good 1 v 1 defender, who is best suited playing deep in defence. I have seen nothing to suggest he would provide a better option further up the field than the guys already playing in those positions. My main frustration with him is too often he tries to blast very long pin point passes instead of just taking the shorter option. Longer kick =longer time in the air =more opportunity for the opposition to pick off the kick. Sometimes the shorter option is the best option
Its a balance, at times we have guys chipping it around to the short option instead of taking an agressive kick and it results in us getting hemmed in in our backline, then we revert to the bomb it down the line - throw in- lose clearance - back in our d50 time and time again.

For my view, guys with the skills to hit aggressive kicks if there there should take them, thats what they were drafted for. Eg, When Billings has it, i dont want to see him chip it sideways when there is a player leading into a hole on a 45deg, etc.

I reckon last year going into the fwd 50 there was heaps of times a player had the ball around wing, could take a shorter option around the 50mt arc, but opted the more direct route, which would then get spoiled or cutoff and we lost scoring opportunities. Had we taken the shorter option, the oppo defense would get drawn up the ground potentially leaving holes deep in our fwd 50
 

RobbieMuir

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Oct 28, 2013
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With Long’s move to defence over the pre-season, it got me thinking about how many of our champion defenders over the years started out as forwards.

It seems that the majority of them got their grounding in their early years in attack before swapping ends:

Verdun Howell (Brownlow)
Bob Murray (BnF)
Cowboy Neale (BnF)
Trevor Barker (BnF x 2)
Barry Lawrence (2nd in BnF)
Barry Breen - admittedly later on (3rd BnF)
Sam Fisher (2 x BnF)

All these players ended up being top performers down back.

Perhaps Long has served his apprenticeship up forward and, like the above players, he can apply what he has learned at the other end of the ground, and become a very good backman.

It did seem at times last year that he was allergic to leather, but this may have been because he is more suited to a defensive role.

We will find out soon.
 

Moorabbin Ghost

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Apr 28, 2015
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I’ve read a bit about him in here, and I’m not suggesting that he’ll be as good, but Nicholas Coffield reminds me so much of a young Brendon Goddard. The size, the skill, and the need to be patient.
Ratts has already got these kids eating out the palm of his hand simply by allowing them to play their natural game, and not trying to turn them into something they’re not.
I’m expecting huge improvements this year from the likes of Coffield, Clark, Billings, Dunstan, Steele, Lonie, Long, Sinclair.
We all go into a new season optimistically even when we are no good, but I genuinely believe that this coming season will be our launching pad, similar to 03. We’ve got the talent, we have a coach which the players adore, now to get to work on getting these players used to a new St Kilda way of playing footy.
 

Keg on legs

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I’ve read a bit about him in here, and I’m not suggesting that he’ll be as good, but Nicholas Coffield reminds me so much of a young Brendon Goddard. The size, the skill, and the need to be patient.
Ratts has already got these kids eating out the palm of his hand simply by allowing them to play their natural game, and not trying to turn them into something they’re not.
I’m expecting huge improvements this year from the likes of Coffield, Clark, Billings, Dunstan, Steele, Lonie, Long, Sinclair.
We all go into a new season optimistically even when we are no good, but I genuinely believe that this coming season will be our launching pad, similar to 03. We’ve got the talent, we have a coach which the players adore, now to get to work on getting these players used to a new St Kilda way of playing footy.

Gr8 to see you back MG
 
Webster is a good player, and an underrated defender. If injuries hadn't been a consistent enough problem for him, he may have been a very good player...he has good pace and is a pretty accurate kick. Something we have desperately needed. However, I think after nearly a decade in the game, his chances may have petered out. I wouldn't be too surprised to see him gone come the season's end. Guy's like him and Sinclair really need to get it together for longer, if they are to remain in St.Kilda colours.


Or was he good when measured against a poor list? Maybe now he's plummeted to the bottom rung and has a lot in front of him. To me he plays a bit loose, isn't super fast, lacks a bit of agility and is an inconsistent kick. Savage has his long kicking, Geary wears players, Paton, Clark, Coffield, Wilkie and Robertton need spots, Mc Kenzie on the list for years more. I'd be worried if I was Jimmy. Even Sinclair played back.
 
Jun 17, 2018
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I think Webster is a very good 1 v 1 defender, who is best suited playing deep in defence. I have seen nothing to suggest he would provide a better option further up the field than the guys already playing in those positions. My main frustration with him is too often he tries to blast very long pin point passes instead of just taking the shorter option. Longer kick =longer time in the air =more opportunity for the opposition to pick off the kick. Sometimes the shorter option is the best option


It's an interesting one.
AFL has been a pretty congested game over the years, so much so, that the powers that be want to open the game up to create more open play. You are right with the short options, but I think the entire state of play and tactics nowadays is to be prepared for that sort of thing. The long kick looks bad, but I think it's because players are no longer able to do it effectively. It is almost a bygone skill...something AFL house did not count on when coming up with their new/old "Let's get back to 90's style, great spectacle footy" ideology.
The long kick done skilfully, will destroy the modern style game. It can completely open up play. Unfortunately the Nicky Winmar's of the world are too old to drill a 60 metre, 100 mile an hour kick to the chest, of which receivers of the Iilk of Plugger, or Buckets, or even more modern, a guy like Riewoldt would have salivated over.
That's the kind of skill level, and natural ability required to do a long kick effectively.
 
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Thats exactly the thinking of our past coach!

He is very different to DMac and he can actually hit a target, take a mark and has a good penetrating long kick. How would we know if he could play another position, he never had the opportunity?

He was drafted as midfielder/back flanker it doesnt surprise he remained as a BP when we had 42 on our list and no one else with talent to play further up the ground.
He is best suited to the backline. Nothing to do with Richo. Haven’t seen rats try elsewhere and neither he should. It’s fantasyland stuff. And the reason I say that is I’m sure he would have been tried elsewhere is intraclub games. As if supporters know more than coaches especially as we don’t see them train.
 

WhiskySaint

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Nov 23, 2016
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Some short memories on here re Jweb.

He was good for us when fit the last few years playing behind arguably the worst midfield in the comp. we have been deplorable in moving the ball out of our back 50.

I’d rather have the ball in JWebs hands then Gears, Dmacs, Brown or Savage. Long bombs have got us nowhere, and we are have been so static up the ground which just makes those game changing kicks so much harder.

If all fit and firing my backline is....
JWeb Howard Wilkie
Robo Carlisle Long

Coff and Clark on the bench rotating through.
 
Jun 17, 2018
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Or was he good when measured against a poor list? Maybe now he's plummeted to the bottom rung and has a lot in front of him. To me he plays a bit loose, isn't super fast, lacks a bit of agility and is an inconsistent kick. Savage has his long kicking, Geary wears players, Paton, Clark, Coffield, Wilkie and Robertton need spots, Mc Kenzie on the list for years more. I'd be worried if I was Jimmy. Even Sinclair played back.

Agree, I think his time is running out. What do you make of Sinc's? I can't see him lasting. A bit like JWeb and past blokes like Acres, in that you can see the ability, and potential to become something good, but it just doesn't happen.
 

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Or was he good when measured against a poor list? Maybe now he's plummeted to the bottom rung and has a lot in front of him. To me he plays a bit loose, isn't super fast, lacks a bit of agility and is an inconsistent kick. Savage has his long kicking, Geary wears players, Paton, Clark, Coffield, Wilkie and Robertton need spots, Mc Kenzie on the list for years more. I'd be worried if I was Jimmy. Even Sinclair played back.
Yeah that’s pretty much what I’m thinking. Moving Long and trying Sinclair back says to me that Ratts doesn’t like who’s been playing back there, or that it needs a change. Webster is another one like Newnes/Acres etc that has been ok without setting the world on fire. I can see him being another victim of a change up.
 
Aug 30, 2017
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Some short memories on here re Jweb.

He was good for us when fit the last few years playing behind arguably the worst midfield in the comp. we have been deplorable in moving the ball out of our back 50.

I’d rather have the ball in JWebs hands then Gears, Dmacs, Brown or Savage. Long bombs have got us nowhere, and we are have been so static up the ground which just makes those game changing kicks so much harder.

If all fit and firing my backline is....
JWeb Howard Wilkie
Robo Carlisle Long

Coff and Clark on the bench rotating through.

Webster hasn’t faired that great in club B&F’s & he has never been talked about as being one the good to better small defenders in the league. If he continues to get a game then we are stuffed because it means we don’t have anybody good enough to replace a very mediocre player. Not a personal attack. We have a number in the 22 who need to be replaced or overtaken by younger players that hopefully have upside.
 

WhiskySaint

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Webster hasn’t faired that great in club B&F’s & he has never been talked about as being one the good to better small defenders in the league. If he continues to get a game then we are stuffed because it means we don’t have anybody good enough to replace a very mediocre player. Not a personal attack. We have a number in the 22 who need to be replaced or overtaken by younger players that hopefully have upside.
I’m comfortable if a better player overtakes him, I just think he’s getting a bit of a raw deal on here and he is easily best 22 when firing.

Most games he has ever played in a season is 18, which will sku the bnf results and I guess back pockets don’t fair that well generally?

I also remember when he was firing the commentators giving him a heap of love.

Main knock on here is his disposal, but his disposal is better then DMac, Sav, and Gears. Sav and gears are in plenty of beat 22s on here.
 
Aug 30, 2017
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I’m comfortable if a better player overtakes him, I just think he’s getting a bit of a raw deal on here and he is easily best 22 when firing.

Most games he has ever played in a season is 18, which will sku the bnf results and I guess back pockets don’t fair that well generally?

I also remember when he was firing the commentators giving him a heap of love.

Main knock on here is his disposal, but his disposal is better then DMac, Sav, and Gears. Sav and gears are in plenty of beat 22s on here.

DMac is lucky to be on the list IMO so no arguments from me.

Gears is captain so he’s obviously going to be in best 22’s. I didn’t put him in mine though. Partly because of his injuries & also because he’s at the age where form can suddenly dip.

Savage I put into a similar category to Webster as someone we need to replace in order to improve. But I thought Savage showed a bit of improvement last year. He started to back himself more in the air & also lower his eyes coming out of defence. I think Long takes his position though.

Webster & the other three you mentioned aren’t in my best 22. I might have put Savage in there when I did my 22 a month or so ago but definitely not the other three. I’m prioritising skill & composure. I like the idea of Clark, Sinclair, Long, Coffield & Paton being preferred small-medium backs. If Roberton also plays then that will be huge.
 

Phoenix_9

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Feb 12, 2010
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Webster hasn’t faired that great in club B&F’s & he has never been talked about as being one the good to better small defenders in the league. If he continues to get a game then we are stuffed because it means we don’t have anybody good enough to replace a very mediocre player. Not a personal attack. We have a number in the 22 who need to be replaced or overtaken by younger players that hopefully have upside.
You have a very short memory.
Webster was 6th and 7th in the best and fairest in 2017 and 2018, placing above some pretty good players.
 

Ducky Tie

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There is a notion every year in pre season that we have new found depth. I'm not saying it is not true this time around, but I'll wait and see some games before making judgement on the depth of our list. It's easy to have competition for spots in February. It is quite often a different conversation come April. Again, not saying we don't have improved depth, but we don't yet know.
 
Aug 30, 2017
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You have a very short memory.
Webster was 6th and 7th in the best and fairest in 2017 and 2018, placing above some pretty good players.

Memory is fine & those two okay B&F finishes do not impress me. This is Jimmy’s 9th season on the list & he’s soon to be 27. Players such as Webster being preferred best 22 players is why we’ve been so poor for so long.
 

WhiskySaint

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Nov 23, 2016
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DMac is lucky to be on the list IMO so no arguments from me.

Gears is captain so he’s obviously going to be in best 22’s. I didn’t put him in mine though. Partly because of his injuries & also because he’s at the age where form can suddenly dip.

Savage I put into a similar category to Webster as someone we need to replace in order to improve. But I thought Savage showed a bit of improvement last year. He started to back himself more in the air & also lower his eyes coming out of defence. I think Long takes his position though.

Webster & the other three you mentioned aren’t in my best 22. I might have put Savage in there when I did my 22 a month or so ago but definitely not the other three. I’m prioritising skill & composure. I like the idea of Clark, Sinclair, Long, Coffield & Paton being preferred small-medium backs. If Roberton also plays then that will be huge.
Happy to prioritise skills, (although we don’t agree on JWebs), but I still think we need a player to lock down on the opponents best small. I don’t think Clark, Coff are those players and I’ve not seen enough of Paton or Long to make the call.

I agree that along will likely play Savs role. So that leaves Paton.... have I missed someone?
 
Aug 30, 2017
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I really don't get the Webster hate tbh. He was almost our bnf for the first 8 games of 2018 with both him and Robbo playing.

It’s not hate, crusty. Fans have lost patience & are beyond accepting mediocrity. It took me a while to accept the club trading Acres but in hindsight I love that the club got onto the front foot & moved on GOP’s. From memory last year there was a few ITK’s saying Webster was on the trade table but there wasn’t any bites. Now we are seeing Sinclair & Long training with the backs. I like where the clubs thinking is at.
 

Ducky Tie

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Memory is fine & those two okay B&F finishes do not impress me. This is Jimmy’s 9th season on the list & he’s soon to be 27. Players such as Webster being preferred best 22 players is why we’ve been so poor for so long.
Yes and no. Yes, if we are to move forward as a list, we need middle of the road players to be overtaken by better options. No, that doesn't happen just because we want it to. No point throwing the baby out with the bathwater. Webster is a good player and there's a decent chance he's in the best 22 for a lot of the year.
 
Aug 30, 2017
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Happy to prioritise skills, (although we don’t agree on JWebs), but I still think we need a player to lock down on the opponents best small. I don’t think Clark, Coff are those players and I’ve not seen enough of Paton or Long to make the call.

I agree that along will likely play Savs role. So that leaves Paton.... have I missed someone?

I’ve always liked Sinclair’s one on one work. Maybe he could play as a lockdown small back?
 

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