Training 2020 Pre-Season

[tomjoad]

That's pretty funny, Daw is elite, Connor Mc Kenna and Hugh Greenwood. Hmmmm, I'd take Tom Mitchell over any of the Hawks listed guys. These champion data things are very silly. Remember when Sinclair was elite.

Sinclair elite...I forgot about that. Funny stuff. If guys like him, Daw, and a couple of others mentioned are "elite" then the word has lost all relevant meaning.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Make our own then.

We have to. There has to be a limit to how many players we import.
Keep doing it and we will simply max out our cap. ( Every time you lure a player in , you have to pay them overs ).

 

[BrutThough]

Sinclair elite...I forgot about that. Funny stuff. If guys like him, Daw, and a couple of others mentioned are "elite" then the word has lost all relevant meaning.

While Sinclair being rated Elite shows how irrelevant Champion Data's ranking systems are, how he got that rating makes slightly more sense than how Hugh Greenwood is elite despite all the gun midfielders in the comp, or Daw gets elite despite not playing in 2019.

The year that Sinclair got an Elite rating, there was only about 6-8 players in CD's Wing category and there system overrates contested possessions so despite his overall rankings being mid tier, he averaged a decent amount of CP's a game so he was still one of the highest in the wing category since that bar was so low and someone in there had to be ranked elite.

 

[Grav]

thats interesting we are who we are i guess theres no escaping that...but interestingly i Have written an imagery evaluation on some of the AVATARS of the all the users on this forum...what they reveal about the poster...well about ten of the ones i see a lot.. like yourself pluggers mine and brains trust ursing Fi Jian stewart 66 and so on.. im dying to post them but im a little worried....there just in fun but attempt to have genuine insight....dont know but ive enjoyed it...yeah i know too much time on my hands.......

Would be interesting to see, off season we need someone to stir the pot & give us a bit of a laugh.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

While Sinclair being rated Elite shows how irrelevant Champion Data's ranking systems are, how he got that rating makes slightly more sense than how Hugh Greenwood is elite despite all the gun midfielders in the comp, or Daw gets elite despite not playing in 2019.

The year that Sinclair got an Elite rating, there was only about 6-8 players in CD's Wing category and there system overrates contested possessions so despite his overall rankings being mid tier, he averaged a decent amount of CP's a game so he was still one of the highest in the wing category since that bar was so low and someone in there had to be ranked elite.

Greenwood probably scores well from his contested possessions. A lot more than Sinclair and a lot more than most mid's. IF he's a mid, he's kicked a lot of goals , so that would have boosted him.
He gets a lot, and because of his late start in AFL may have gone under the radar.
He could well have a big season at his new club.

Sinclair became elite from his "meters gained " stats. He was playing mostly on the wing that year, and he was pretty good at it.

What category is Majak in? A missed season doesn't necessarily drop them, but how did Majak get up there in the first place?

 

[Left_Billings]

Weird note, Max King is on the 18th line of betting for the 2019 Coleman, paying less than the likes of Membrey, Taylor Walker, Bruce, Ben King, Bruest, Stringer Etc. and hasn’t even stepped foot on the field yet.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Weird note, Max King is on the 18th line of betting for the 2019 Coleman, paying less than the likes of Membrey, Taylor Walker, Bruce, Ben King, Bruest, Stringer Etc. and hasn’t even stepped foot on the field yet.

Jesus , i'd rather put money on Bruce or Membrey.

 

[CaptainRisky]

Weird note, Max King is on the 18th line of betting for the 2019 Coleman, paying less than the likes of Membrey, Taylor Walker, Bruce, Ben King, Bruest, Stringer Etc. and hasn’t even stepped foot on the field yet.

They need to be drug tested

 

[Dr Spaceman]

Weird note, Max King is on the 18th line of betting for the 2019 Coleman, paying less than the likes of Membrey, Taylor Walker, Bruce, Ben King, Bruest, Stringer Etc. and hasn’t even stepped foot on the field yet.

They need to be drug tested

Max is $151 on TAB which seems reasonable (Membrey $67, Bruce $51 etc)

 

[BrutThough]

Greenwood probably scores well from his contested possessions. A lot more than Sinclair and a lot more than most mid's. IF he's a mid, he's kicked a lot of goals , so that would have boosted him.
He gets a lot, and because of his late start in AFL may have gone under the radar.
He could well have a big season at his new club.

Sinclair became elite from his "meters gained " stats. He was playing mostly on the wing that year, and he was pretty good at it.

What category is Majak in? A missed season doesn't necessarily drop them, but how did Majak get up there in the first place?

They classified Greenwood as a mid/fwd, so the contested possessions is what would have boosted him alongside the others in that category since many would be getting a lot of outside ball and hitting up long targets (something CD doesn't value as highly). Considering he's rated as a mid/fwd and spending about 40% of game time in the fwd line, he only averaged 8m gained per possession, 2 score involments a game and had 0 goal assists. Thats pretty woeful stats to be considered elite. I dont see him getting much game time at GC next season. His only real attributes is winning contested possessions and clearances, yet those were two of the only things GC did well that year. Plus they are adding in three highly rated midfield draftees who should be prioritised midfield time. He cant win the ball on the outside at all, so unless he is playing in the centre square the whole game, he doesn't add much around field.

Daw is ranked as a Key Defender. And looking at his stats, I have no clue how he got ranked aside McGovern, Rance and Harris Andrews as an elite KD, especially with a year off. I think he might be boosted because he spent time in the ruck, and judging by the amount of ruckman who are rated elite, CD also overrate ruckman considering 7/51 players listed are ruckman which is too many.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

They classified Greenwood as a mid/fwd, so the contested possessions is what would have boosted him alongside the others in that category since many would be getting a lot of outside ball and hitting up long targets (something CD doesn't value as highly). Considering he's rated as a mid/fwd and spending about 40% of game time in the fwd line, he only averaged 8m gained per possession, 2 score involments a game and had 0 goal assists. Thats pretty woeful stats to be considered elite. I dont see him getting much game time at GC next season. His only real attributes is winning contested possessions and clearances, yet those were two of the only things GC did well that year. Plus they are adding in three highly rated midfield draftees who should be prioritised midfield time. He cant win the ball on the outside at all, so unless he is playing in the centre square the whole game, he doesn't add much around field.

Daw is ranked as a Key Defender. And looking at his stats, I have no clue how he got ranked aside McGovern, Rance and Harris Andrews as an elite KD, especially with a year off. I think he might be boosted because he spent time in the ruck, and judging by the amount of ruckman who are rated elite, CD also overrate ruckman considering 7/51 players listed are ruckman which is too many.

If Daw is a key defender, and gets to play in the ruck, his possession count should be massive compared to the likes of Nathan Brown.
If he was rated as a ruck, he'd be crap.

 

[CaptainRisky]

Max is $151 on TAB which seems reasonable (Membrey $67, Bruce $51 etc)

That seems more like it , old mate Billings has a different sauce

 

[Left_Billings]

That seems more like it , old mate Billings has a different sauce

Max is $151 on TAB which seems reasonable (Membrey $67, Bruce $51 etc)

Sportsbet he’s at $51

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Sportsbet he’s at $51

How much could i get for a bet that both Bruce and Membrey kick more goals than him?

 

[BrutThough]

If Daw is a key defender, and gets to play in the ruck, his possession count should be massive compared to the likes of Nathan Brown.
If he was rated as a ruck, he'd be crap.

Possessions were mid teens got most of 2018 compared to a Brown is rarely gets over 10. Slightly above what McGovern, Andrews and Phil David average so I'm guessing his time in the ruck helped boost that. Since Goldstein plays majority of game time, Daw wouldnt attend many run contests but it would help boost his rating (based off the things they value) compared to most key defenders who attend zero ruck contests a game.

 

[CaptainRisky]

Sportsbet he’s at $51

Wow , thats a massive difference , anyway he can be 1000-1 and still wont be getting mine , im a punter not an idiot

 

[Dr Spaceman]

im a punter not an idiot

In your case the two aren't mutually exclusive

 

[DarkSaint]

You know you have had a bad year when you get the coached sacked! Yes that was us and we still missed the finals by a couple of wins and if we beat Freo/North/Blues we would have been playing finals.... i'll let that sink in. On top of this we had 5 of our most important players out for 3/4 of the year Robbo/Carlsile/Hanners/Geary/Steven and throw in Webster/McCartin/Kent that would have been starting 22 and that's 3/4 of a team out.

This year we have added 5 players from other team's that will all be best 22 imo and we have Robbo/Carlisle/Hanners/Geary to add into the side as well. There will be sides that improve and sides that drop off every year which is a given. I believe if we add in the above 9 players, we will be playing finals footy.

We have been ravaged by injuries last year to our best and most important players and still managed to miss the finals by a couple of games. Our draw is no worse off than last year, and we have some sides that look to be on the decline that we have been their bunnies for a while (Port/Crows/Swans and i will even put the pies in this list).

So far i see no reason not to be optimistic of playing finals as we stand.

 

[Jade Buddha]

You know you have had a bad year when you get the coached sacked! Yes that was us and we still missed the finals by a couple of wins and if we beat Freo/North/Blues we would have been playing finals.... i'll let that sink in. On top of this we had 5 of our most important players out for 3/4 of the year Robbo/Carlsile/Hanners/Geary/Steven and throw in Webster/McCartin/Kent that would have been starting 22 and that's 3/4 of a team out.

This year we have added 5 players from other team's that will all be best 22 imo and we have Robbo/Carlisle/Hanners/Geary to add into the side as well. There will be sides that improve and sides that drop off every year which is a given. I believe if we add in the above 9 players, we will be playing finals footy.

We have been ravaged by injuries last year to our best and most important players and still managed to miss the finals by a couple of games. Our draw is no worse off than last year, and we have some sides that look to be on the decline that we have been their bunnies for a while (Port/Crows/Swans and i will even put the pies in this list).

So far i see no reason not to be optimistic of playing finals as we stand.

Having Hanners consistently will be significant his impact in the few games he played was pleasing

 

[Dr Spaceman]

Sportsbet he’s at $51

 

[plugger66]

They need to be drug tested

Id suggest the people backing him need the drug test. That's how markets are done.

 

[plugger66]

You know you have had a bad year when you get the coached sacked! Yes that was us and we still missed the finals by a couple of wins and if we beat Freo/North/Blues we would have been playing finals.... i'll let that sink in. On top of this we had 5 of our most important players out for 3/4 of the year Robbo/Carlsile/Hanners/Geary/Steven and throw in Webster/McCartin/Kent that would have been starting 22 and that's 3/4 of a team out.

This year we have added 5 players from other team's that will all be best 22 imo and we have Robbo/Carlisle/Hanners/Geary to add into the side as well. There will be sides that improve and sides that drop off every year which is a given. I believe if we add in the above 9 players, we will be playing finals footy.

We have been ravaged by injuries last year to our best and most important players and still managed to miss the finals by a couple of games. Our draw is no worse off than last year, and we have some sides that look to be on the decline that we have been their bunnies for a while (Port/Crows/Swans and i will even put the pies in this list).

So far i see no reason not to be optimistic of playing finals as we stand.

Another falling for the injury trap as a reason to improve. Reckon I could find a similar post like yours now from someone last year.

 

[Yawkey way]

I'm not sure why you are getting so upset to be honest. I don't see us jumping up the ladder unless our players improve. I don't think that's a huge stretch either. Carlton lost plenty of games under a few goals, we won a lot of our close ones for instance. They also lost players to injury and were much better under Teague. They should expect finals on that.

Melbourne and Essendon are better than their ladder position, Dogs look better with Bruce, Brisbane might struggle to make the same impact if injury hits, North Melbourne aren't the shitbox people thought, basically there are probably only a few clubs unlikely to improve from last year, there is no reason we can't shoot up the ladder just as much as any other team. That said we need to get improvement first.

I think we still lack star quality and our best players are inexperienced or injury prone. If everything falls our way we could do a Brisbane for sure but likely outcome is we get injuries, we take time to gel and haven't got as easy draw as last season. To me around 8 to 10 wins looks right unless we have drastic improvement. That's going through the fixture and giving us every win against Carlton, North, Dees, Sydney, Freo and Adelaide in Melbourne etc. Obviously we are unlikely to win all of those but also likely to pick up a couple of unlikely ones.

2021 is when we should have games under the youth side of Clark, Battle, King etc. To me that looks like when we are a realistic potential finals side that could actually give it a shake. Hopefully I'm like a Jewish kid at Christmas and after 9 years of running down the stairs and hoping for presents, I get a nice surprise next year.

Best 22 pace gringo, adding some players results in a small incremental improvement.

Adding the right pieces can result in huge improvements, I suspect St Kilda will look radically different with hill and Jones at marvel.

 

[gringo2011]

Best 22 pace gringo, adding some players results in a small incremental improvement.

Adding the right pieces can result in huge improvements, I suspect St Kilda will look radically different with hill and Jones at marvel.

I'm not suggesting we can't improve, I'm just not a huge fan of getting yourself salivating about how amazing the year will be and finding that by round 10 that all hopes and dreams were for nothing. I'm more an improvement agnostic. Could happen, might not. I'm a Footy-Buddhist. Have no expectations and everything is a bonus.

 

[DarkSaint]

Another falling for the injury trap as a reason to improve. Reckon I could find a similar post like yours now from someone last year.

You have lost the plot. If you miss having 6 or 7 best 22 players for a year and then they play the following, of course you will improve. What universe are you living in.