Training 2020 Preseason

briztoon

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Funny how a few of the critics of CEY were also the ones so viciously critical of us trading for Charlie Cameron.

Sure, I admire the self-confidence to keep expressing incorrect views in such absolute terms year after year. It takes a special kind of “fan” to keep bagging club decisions and ultimately being proven wrong on almost every occasion.
Who was viciously critical of us trading for Cameron?

Genuinely want names.

Because, to me, this post is just as hyperbolic.
 

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Dylan12

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Who was viciously critical of us trading for Cameron?
I'd be interested to know too.

I sense those that were labelled "vicious" were those who at the time dared to question or were aggrieved that we gave up pick 12 for Cameron instead of pick 18 when he'd only really shown potential in bursts including an outstanding 5 goal PF haul. I was one of those people that at the time that thought pick 12 was too much, but I doubt you'll find anyone that was critical, let alone viciously critical, that we recruited someone of Cameron's ilk.

But I guess you dare not be too critical of recruiting for someone like CEY. :rolleyes:

While I'm here, I'll throw in Birchall too. Personally, I don't see why we went there with our list profile and given that he's played what, 5 games in total across 3 years? Sure, it didn't cost us anything, but I don't see why we want to give games over one of our younger guys when he won't be at the club in 2 years. Apologies if I'm being too vicious with my comments on Birchall...
 

Scubaveg

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Who was viciously critical of us trading for Cameron?

Genuinely want names.

Because, to me, this post is just as hyperbolic.
There were many posters critical of what we gave up for Cameron. Both doomsayers predicting beforehand what we may part with, how if we did it would be ridiculous, and then potting what we did give up for him.


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Dylan12

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There were many posters critical of what we gave up for Cameron. Both doomsayers predicting beforehand what we may part with, how if we did it would be ridiculous, and then potting what we did give up for him.
And what is wrong with that based off Cameron's inconsistent form at the time. To suggest that those that thought we should have paid less are doomsayers and being negative etc. are being pretty disingenuous to say the least.

I know spotthedog1 has posted on this subject countless times but take your hand off it honestly.
 

POBT

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I'd be interested to know too.

I sense those that were labelled "vicious" were those who at the time dared to question or were aggrieved that we gave up pick 12 for Cameron instead of pick 18 when he'd only really shown potential in bursts including an outstanding 5 goal PF haul. I was one of those people that at the time that thought pick 12 was too much, but I doubt you'll find anyone that was critical, let alone viciously critical, that we recruited someone of Cameron's ilk.

But I guess you dare not be too critical of recruiting for someone like CEY. :rolleyes:

While I'm here, I'll throw in Birchall too. Personally, I don't see why we went there with our list profile and given that he's played what, 5 games in total across 3 years? Sure, it didn't cost us anything, but I don't see why we want to give games over one of our younger guys when he won't be at the club in 2 years. Apologies if I'm being too vicious with my comments on Birchall...
You did.

You said he was overrated.

You made comments to the effect that Noble had allowed Adelaide to anally rape us.

That’s not vicious?
 

briztoon

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There were many posters critical of what we gave up for Cameron. Both doomsayers predicting beforehand what we may part with, how if we did it would be ridiculous, and then potting what we did give up for him.


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Replace the word doomsayers with Lions posters.

It’s the emotive language that is getting out of hand.

Yep, I was one of those posters saying pick 12 for Cameron was overpaying.

He was at the time, primarily a defensive small forward, who when played further up the ground and running towards goal had a tendency to butcher his kicks into the forward 50.

Typically that’s the type of player that’s drafted in the later part of the draft, or rookie draft.

Yes, CC was more physically developed than a draftee, and was ready to play from round one, but skill wise, he was still missing a lot to his game, from my untrained eye. And yes he was also contracted.

But I also come from a sporting background where trading a contracted player doesn’t cost a premium.
 

briztoon

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You did.

You said he was overrated.

You made comments to the effect that Noble had allowed Adelaide to anally rape us.

That’s not vicious?
I did a word search of both anally and rape before replying here.

I can’t find any comments in the 2017 trade thread after April that year that contain either word, especially in regards to the CC trade.

Now Dylan may have made many comments to the effect of, well something. But without the actual quotes and language used in context, I’m still struggling to remember anyone being viciously critical.
 

seanthelion

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I did a word search of both anally and rape before replying here.

I can’t find any comments in the 2017 trade thread after April that year that contain either word, especially in regards to the CC trade.

Now Dylan may have made many comments to the effect of, well something. But without the actual quotes and language used in context, I’m still struggling to remember anyone being viciously critical.
Pick 12 for Cameron.

What an utter joke.

Again, like most trade periods, we have dropped our pants, bent over and been given a hiding.

I don't care what crap Adelaide is supposedly giving us back, but that trade is utterly absurd.

At this rate, Noble will be accepting a pick in the 50's for Schache and will spin it that it was a win for the Lions.:mad:
Are we seriously giving up pick 12 for CC?

Bent over a barrel or what.:rolleyes:
Can’t believe we paid pick 12 for an average player that is no better than Banfield, Green, Proud or Hooper.

Cameron will be delisted by the time his contract is up and we’ve been bent over the barrel.

In Noble we trust and all that BS:rolleyes:
I searched the phrase "bent over".
 

spotthedog1

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And what is wrong with that based off Cameron's inconsistent form at the time. To suggest that those that thought we should have paid less are doomsayers and being negative etc. are being pretty disingenuous to say the least.

I know spotthedog1 has posted on this subject countless times but take your hand off it honestly.
Yep. I'm quite happy that in hindsight, pick 12 was good value, but definitely considered it overpaying at the time given the inconsistency and number of unknowns around Charlie at the time. Very thankful that most of the unknowns turned out to be positive in the fullness of time...
 

spotthedog1

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I searched the phrase "bent over".
That's pretty disingenuous.
1. "Bent over" is a fairly common euphemism for caving in.
2. "Anally raped" is a fairly crude and repugnant term
3. The act of dropping our pants and bending over would imply consent. Sex and rape are very different things with very different connotations.

I'd say that twisting the meaning like that is a deliberate and disgusting misrepresentation in order to claim superiority...
 

seanthelion

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That's pretty disingenuous.
1. "Bent over" is a fairly common euphemism for caving in.
2. "Anally raped" is a fairly crude and repugnant term
3. The act of dropping our pants and bending over would imply consent. Sex and rape are very different things with very different connotations.

I'd say that twisting the meaning like that is a deliberate and disgusting misrepresentation in order to claim superiority...
Thanks for pulling me up there. Really wasn't thinking when I posted that. Sorry about that Dylan12.
 

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Dylan12

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I accept that I used the term "bent over a barrell" which at the time I think we conceded too quickly. Just as I did for what we gave up in return for Schache and Beams at the time. I'm certainly not backing down from the fact, IMO, in Noble generally gave more than was required and accepted less than what I thought we should accept. I think most other club's are a lot tougher in their trade negotiations (I'm not including Dodoro who I think does more harm than good for Essendon), which at times I'd prefer to Noble to adopt a firmer stance and not be the be the ones that either overpays / undersells, but again credit to Noble and his team for getting trades done nonetheless.
 

bungalow_bill

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I accept that I used the term "bent over a barrell" which at the time I think we conceded too quickly. Just as I did for what we gave up in return for Schache and Beams at the time. I'm certainly not backing down from the fact, IMO, in Noble generally gave more than was required and accepted less than what I thought we should accept. I think most other club's are a lot tougher in their trade negotiations (I'm not including Dodoro who I think does more harm than good for Essendon), which at times I'd prefer to Noble to adopt a firmer stance and not be the be the ones that either overpays / undersells, but again credit to Noble and his team for getting trades done nonetheless.
There is a chance that if Noble refused to give up pick 12 that Cameron remained at the Crows
 

Berrygood

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Agree 100%, the only thing that keeps him on the list in 2021 is that he’s contracted. Personally I think that will be he last year with us unless traded before then.


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I think 2 more years will be enough to know if he has what it takes to have a long career or not. He's had just 4yrs in the system, has improved each year and i guess to date has played more games than cey and at an arguably average to above average standard. I think the deficiencies in his game can improve to deliver a consistantly above average performance with potentially more great games. I dont see him as an out n out star but more of the 100% effort, clubman, mitch robbo type player every club needs. In 2yrs time he will be what, 25yrs old and im sure the picture will be much clearer on his future. He has had a strengthening midfield and low injury rates to compete with to get longer opportunities when they have come about. He will have to fight hard and keep working but I'll back him in to be around post 2021 for a while.
 

a mayes ing

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There is a chance that if Noble refused to give up pick 12 that Cameron remained at the Crows
Also a chance that had Noble stuck with 18, Adelaide might have blinked right before trade period ended and we got a player like Darcy Fogarty + Cameron. Or that Cameron would still nominate Lions in 12 months time. Really no way to know at all. Also think Noble is a bit softer at negotiations than other, however in hindsight he has done magnificiently.
 

Dlions

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Also a chance that had Noble stuck with 18, Adelaide might have blinked right before trade period ended and we got a player like Darcy Fogarty + Cameron. Or that Cameron would still nominate Lions in 12 months time. Really no way to know at all. Also think Noble is a bit softer at negotiations than other, however in hindsight he has done magnificiently.
Someone wants to be at your club, just get the deal done ✅
Pick 12 has ended up being an absolute steal.
Well done to Nobes and Co.
 

BangyBangy

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Would rather this then be in Sydney’s position this year.


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Agree with this. But to be fair, I think Essendon is in a worse position now compared to Sydney. Carlton if they don't manage to grab Martin in the pre season or national draft will look the worst out of the lot.
 

a mayes ing

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Someone wants to be at your club, just get the deal done ✅
Pick 12 has ended up being an absolute steal.
Well done to Nobes and Co.
Yes, that is why l said in hindsight he had done magnificiently.
At the time pick 12 was overs for what he had donein his career. even Charlie thought it was overs. If l knew he would develop this far this quickly then l and probably everyone would have had no qualms about handing over pick 12 back in 2017(?). There also does have to be a limit to what you give up if a player you want nominates your club.
I believe Sydney did the right thing. Essendon wanted a player like Blakey as well as 2x top 10 picks iirc for an injury prone forward who hadn't played in 2 years
 

Dlions

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Given how good Charlie has proven to be what pick number would you now give for him. If a club came to us and he and the club wanted a change what would we ask for.

Two First round picks, with one in top six?
This year he has become probably the most premium small forward in the game I reckon. Was the only one to kick 50+ goals this year. And at his age should continue to get better, he went through a Dan McStay type period in the early to mid stages of this year missing easy set shots, without that period he would have given the Coleman a nudge.
You would ask for 2 first rounders as a minimum starting point I would think.
 

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