Autopsy 2020 Round 13 - Freo (50) DEF Swans (19)

[Dubai Quacker]

I think Papley in the midfield has been as a reaction to his quieter form lately. Trying to get him some touch. But I agree, I'd leave him forward and tell him to focus on his play as a forward.

Parker and Papley forward.

It was the only time we looked dangerous against Freo.

 

[Ralphyboy]

Parker and Papley forward.

It was the only time we looked dangerous against Freo.

You would certainly hope so given their age and experience. It would be unusual to expect guys with only 2/3 games experience to take control. Having said that it was only Sammy Wicks who took matters into his own hands, nailed Conca in a tackle and slotted a goal, so not quite sure I agree with you.

 

[caesar88]

Watched the replay of this game. It was not as arduous as you'd think. I knew without Rampe we wouldn't have a chance in hell so it's still enjoyable to watch a game where we play poorly to look for the little positives and notice things I might not have at the game.

- Freo are pretty poor, but built entirely around defence. They kicked a score of 50 against a defence missing Rampe. What they do have going for them is a rock solid defence, courtesy of Longmuir. It won't get them far but it will make them impenetrable against young teams. We struggled similarly against Richmond's wall of defence in the infamous Gabba slog. When you're up against a defensive team, you need your leaders more than ever, because the kids simply don't have the nous or experience to even begin to know how to kick through it. Even usually smart users of the footy didn't seem to have their usual intent with their kicks. We missed JPK on the field against Richmond, and I think we missed Rampe on the field even more so against Freo.

- JPK and Parker together yuck.

- COR the unsung hero a bit. Thought he was every bit as good defensively as Cunningham and Fox, albeit I'd like to see him do more damage with the footy.

- Rowbottom self-explanatory.

- Reid copped his fair whack which I agree with but I also thought McCartin looked off his usual self, backing out of a few contests he'd usually go for. Which speaks to my main observation that I also noted live...

- We were not switched on. I've never seen such a lack of awareness from the boys. Not knowing where their opponents were, where their team mates were, where the ball was. Our effort was there but our focus was not. Really not hard to see why... young team coming off a massive win, probably got ahead of themselves, team mate's actions dragged the club through the mud, another team mate's mother passes, our best player and captain is out for the season and departs the club. How would your morale be?

What is clear is that we have work to do. We lost by 31 points against Fremantle, and 32 points against Gold Coast, both teams with a similar age profile to ours (but with a better senior core than what we had the other night.) But these two both had head starts on us. Freo started their rebuild in 2016 when we were still competing in grand finals, and Gold Coast have been such a basket case the AFL had to basically jumpstart their rebuild for them. They've had their time to assess all their young players and determine which ones they go forward with and who to cut. They've had their time to recruit their fair share of duds who don't bring the established quality they hope for.

We are only just in this stage now, so all that considered, I was pleased we were competitive, if not very good.

 

[Millky95]

- JPK and Parker together yuck.

I think our current set up is better suited with 1 pure inside mid being either Parker or Kennedy. They go for the same ball too much. I think Hewett could still go in there as he can tag very well and hopefully become another pure inside option

 

[caesar88]

I think our current set up is better suited with 1 pure inside mid being either Parker or Kennedy. They go for the same ball too much. I think Hewett could still go in there as he can tag very well and hopefully become another pure inside option

I would think the opposite re Hewett. IMO there cannot be more than one of him, Parker and JPK in there at any given centre bounce or stoppage. This is also why I'm not a fan of Mills in there as he is also too similar.

 

[legend166]

People are still counting on Buddy to play anything more than a handful of games for the rest of his career?

34 year olds who have missed two thirds of games over two seasons don't suddenly become healthy. He's done.

 

[Corpuscles]

People are still counting on Buddy to play anything more than a handful of games for the rest of his career?

34 year olds who have missed two thirds of games over two seasons don't suddenly become healthy. He's done.

Almost certainly correct.

It's not the buck$, it is the cap space that was always going to hurt.

Bring on the lawyers????

 

[caesar88]

People are still counting on Buddy to play anything more than a handful of games for the rest of his career?

34 year olds who have missed two thirds of games over two seasons don't suddenly become healthy. He's done.

IMO It's less about him being 34 and what happens next, and more about what happened before he turned 32. He played 17 games or more in 13 of his first 14 seasons, for a total of 290 games. That's a ridiculous output that frankly we, Hawthorn, and the entire competition were very fortunate to enjoy from a 200cm, 100kg+ forward. He had no right even doing that tbh.

That kind of durability is just not sustainable. It was never going to last.

 

[cherub]

You would certainly hope so given their age and experience. It would be unusual to expect guys with only 2/3 games experience to take control. Having said that it was only Sammy Wicks who took matters into his own hands, nailed Conca in a tackle and slotted a goal, so not quite sure I agree with you.

Pretty hard night for small forwards. Freo defenders were marking most ball coming in, so no crumbs to get. Wicks did well to get Conca (who I thought was clamping Papley most of the night), and have the confidence to slot the goal. He does seem the more confident of our young forwards. I thought I saw on the screen at the ground that he sustained a thigh injury which they bandaged. He tried hard all night, although we were chasing most of the time. Apparently he scored highly in the AFL player rankings. He certainly does a lot of the unheralded stuff-blocking, chasing, shepherding. I was glad he went for goal, when the other youngsters seem keen to pass it off at every opportunity.

 

[Ralphyboy]

Pretty hard night for small forwards. Freo defenders were marking most ball coming in, so no crumbs to get. Wicks did well to get Conca (who I thought was clamping Papley most of the night), and have the confidence to slot the goal. He does seem the more confident of our young forwards. I thought I saw on the screen at the ground that he sustained a thigh injury which they bandaged. He tried hard all night, although we were chasing most of the time. Apparently he scored highly in the AFL player rankings. He certainly does a lot of the unheralded stuff-blocking, chasing, shepherding. I was glad he went for goal, when the other youngsters seem keen to pass it off at every opportunity.

He got a corky


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[Dubai Quacker]

Watched the replay of this game. It was not as arduous as you'd think. I knew without Rampe we wouldn't have a chance in hell so it's still enjoyable to watch a game where we play poorly to look for the little positives and notice things I might not have at the game.

- Freo are pretty poor, but built entirely around defence. They kicked a score of 50 against a defence missing Rampe. What they do have going for them is a rock solid defence, courtesy of Longmuir. It won't get them far but it will make them impenetrable against young teams. We struggled similarly against Richmond's wall of defence in the infamous Gabba slog. When you're up against a defensive team, you need your leaders more than ever, because the kids simply don't have the nous or experience to even begin to know how to kick through it. Even usually smart users of the footy didn't seem to have their usual intent with their kicks. We missed JPK on the field against Richmond, and I think we missed Rampe on the field even more so against Freo.

- JPK and Parker together yuck.

- COR the unsung hero a bit. Thought he was every bit as good defensively as Cunningham and Fox, albeit I'd like to see him do more damage with the footy.

- Rowbottom self-explanatory.

- Reid copped his fair whack which I agree with but I also thought McCartin looked off his usual self, backing out of a few contests he'd usually go for. Which speaks to my main observation that I also noted live...

- We were not switched on. I've never seen such a lack of awareness from the boys. Not knowing where their opponents were, where their team mates were, where the ball was. Our effort was there but our focus was not. Really not hard to see why... young team coming off a massive win, probably got ahead of themselves, team mate's actions dragged the club through the mud, another team mate's mother passes, our best player and captain is out for the season and departs the club. How would your morale be?

What is clear is that we have work to do. We lost by 31 points against Fremantle, and 32 points against Gold Coast, both teams with a similar age profile to ours (but with a better senior core than what we had the other night.) But these two both had head starts on us. Freo started their rebuild in 2016 when we were still competing in grand finals, and Gold Coast have been such a basket case the AFL had to basically jumpstart their rebuild for them. They've had their time to assess all their young players and determine which ones they go forward with and who to cut. They've had their time to recruit their fair share of duds who don't bring the established quality they hope for.

We are only just in this stage now, so all that considered, I was pleased we were competitive, if not very good.

I can’t quite find it in myself to be as positive as you, mainly because I felt we played a negative game style - yes, Freo have a solid defence, but they’d only won 4 games too. It was a game we should have been competitive in, but the game style felt defeatist.

And I’m yet to see anything convincing from a few of our young academy players (Bell in particular).

Our list currently has a very weak bottom third. This year’s off-season (delistings, draft and trade) are critical.

 

[caesar88]

I can’t quite find it in myself to be as positive as you, mainly because I felt we played a negative game style - yes, Freo have a solid defence, but they’d only won 4 games too. It was a game we should have been competitive in, but the game style felt defeatist.

And I’m yet to see anything convincing from a few of our young academy players (Bell in particular).

Our list currently has a very weak bottom third. This year’s off-season (delistings, draft and trade) are critical.

Oh don't get me wrong it was s**t. I just think all things considered it was not a total calamity.

And there's a lot to consider.

Fremantle were always going to be a nightmare match up for us. Any team with a great defence will cause massive, massive problems. Richmond did, we were lucky they were in second gear the entire game. And Geelong will do the same in a few weeks. Fremantle aren't that good, they just ain't right for where we're at atm.

No Rampe. No Buddy. No Heeney. No Hewett. No Naismith. And might as well've been no JPK as he was that underdone. They are massive chunks out of every line of our side. You will inevitably get dysfunction with such crucial players missing all over the field.

There were a lot of off-field distractions. You can't under-estimate the effect that being hyped up in the media, then losing the captain for the season, then a team-mate breaking COVID rules, then another team-mate's mother passing all in the span of one week would have on a young playing group. It just rattles the focus slightly and with a team that's already not that good, we can't afford to lose focus at all.

Agree that our bottom third is not much. I'd argue our middle third isn't great either. There really haven't been many players who have had good seasons for us at all. I could probably count six or seven.

 

[Joycerama]

Oh don't get me wrong it was sh*t. I just think all things considered it was not a total calamity.

And there's a lot to consider.

Fremantle were always going to be a nightmare match up for us. Any team with a great defence will cause massive, massive problems. Richmond did, we were lucky they were in second gear the entire game. And Geelong will do the same in a few weeks. Fremantle aren't that good, they just ain't right for where we're at atm.

No Rampe. No Buddy. No Heeney. No Hewett. No Naismith. And might as well've been no JPK as he was that underdone. They are massive chunks out of every line of our side. You will inevitably get dysfunction with such crucial players missing all over the field.

There were a lot of off-field distractions. You can't under-estimate the effect that being hyped up in the media, then losing the captain for the season, then a team-mate breaking COVID rules, then another team-mate's mother passing all in the span of one week would have on a young playing group. It just rattles the focus slightly and with a team that's already not that good, we can't afford to lose focus at all.

Agree that our bottom third is not much. I'd argue our middle third isn't great either. There really haven't been many players who have had good seasons for us at all. I could probably count six or seven.

There are several players that have played this year that are highly questionable in terms of being AFL standard. I hope to god they improve quickly:

bell, Elijah, Ling, Clarke, Warner, Taylor, Gray

The others who are iffy bit somewhat serviceable are: thurlow, Hayward, Blakey, COR, Florent, Mexican, Naismith, Sinclair, Fox, Allir

Don’t know what to think: Kennedy, Reid, Wicks, Foot, Brand

keepers: Parker, Rowbottom, Rampe, Papley, Buddy, Papley, Hewett, Heeney, Stephens, Cunningham.

I’m sure many of you will tear this list to shreds and I’m sure that I missed a few players as well, but what this tells me is that this list is in pretty awful shape unless there is some transformational change from the middle rump of iffy players. That would give us close to 20 decent players and a shot at top four. But is this realistic?

I just watch Port Adelaide’s youngsters with complete envy.

 

[caesar88]

There are several players that have played this year that are highly questionable in terms of being AFL standard. I hope to god they improve quickly:

bell, Elijah, Ling, Clarke, Warner, Taylor, Gray

The others who are iffy bit somewhat serviceable are: thurlow, Hayward, Blakey, COR, Florent, Mexican, Naismith, Sinclair, Fox, Allir

Don’t know what to think: Kennedy, Reid, Wicks, Foot, Brand

keepers: Parker, Rowbottom, Rampe, Papley, Buddy, Papley, Hewett, Heeney, Stephens, Cunningham.

I’m sure many of you will tear this list to shreds and I’m sure that I missed a few players as well, but what this tells me is that this list is in pretty awful shape unless there is some transformational change from the middle rump of iffy players. That would give us close to 20 decent players and a shot at top four. But is this realistic?

I just watch Port Adelaide’s youngsters with complete envy.

I wouldn't be worried about Elijah and Warner. They are both first year players, it's not a concern if they haven't blown us away. Ling I'd also want to see more of before making a call on him. Wicks and Foot could also be filed with these kids.

I don't understand the adoration over Port's kids. They look good, but of course they do. They're developing in a team with names like Gray, Boak, Hartlett, Wines, Dixon, Jonas, Byrne-Jones, Rockliff, Ebert, Lycett, McKenzie, Amon, Clurey, Westhoff and Motlop, who are all good-to-elite senior players. So Butters, Rozee, Farrell etc are not the cake, they are the cherry on top of a contender, in it's prime, in the premiership window.

Flashback to 2016, 2017 when we were a contender... how good did Aliir look debuting as a young defender? Mills won a Rising Star. Hayward the fastest player to 50 goals since Buddy Franklin. Hewett looked comfortable and played every game that year after debuting. Melican looked like a star young defender.

Very easy to look good as a youngster in a good side. The true test is how they perform when the going gets tough. It makes the body of work Rowbottom has put together all the more impressive. He has not had it anywhere near as comfortable to begin his career as Bailey Smith, Rozee, Butters etc have had, yet continues to stand up and perform week in, week out with minimal fuss.

 

[Dubai Quacker]

I wouldn't be worried about Elijah and Warner. They are both first year players, it's not a concern if they haven't blown us away. Ling I'd also want to see more of before making a call on him. Wicks and Foot could also be filed with these kids.

I don't understand the adoration over Port's kids. They look good, but of course they do. They're developing in a team with names like Gray, Boak, Hartlett, Wines, Dixon, Jonas, Byrne-Jones, Rockliff, Ebert, Lycett, McKenzie, Amon, Clurey, Westhoff and Motlop, who are all good-to-elite senior players. So Butters, Rozee, Farrell etc are not the cake, they are the cherry on top of a contender, in it's prime, in the premiership window.

Flashback to 2016, 2017 when we were a contender... how good did Aliir look debuting as a young defender? Mills won a Rising Star. Hayward the fastest player to 50 goals since Buddy Franklin. Hewett looked comfortable and played every game that year after debuting. Melican looked like a star young defender.

Very easy to look good as a youngster in a good side. The true test is how they perform when the going gets tough. It makes the body of work Rowbottom has put together all the more impressive. He has not had it anywhere near as comfortable to begin his career as Bailey Smith, Rozee, Butters etc have had, yet continues to stand up and perform week in, week out with minimal fuss.

Really well said.

Like Port, most of our recent high draft pick youngsters (Heeney, Mills & even Blakey) looked good from the get-go. Rowbottom himself is a high-ish pick. Unlike Port, however, our young stars are leading the side, rather than supporting a quality core of established seniors.

The question is whether any of our 3rd-4th rounders & rookie listed academy boys will develop into quality AFL standard players. Our historical ability to find gems late in the draft and via rookie lists has been a real strength - but the current crop aren’t convincing just yet.

 

[caesar88]

Really well said.

Like Port, most of our recent high draft pick youngsters (Heeney, Mills & even Blakey) looked good from the get-go. Rowbottom himself is a high-ish pick. Unlike Port, however, our young stars are leading the side, rather than supporting a quality core of established seniors.

The question is whether any of our 3rd-4th rounders & rookie listed academy boys will develop into quality AFL standard players. Our historical ability to find gems late in the draft and via rookie lists has been a real strength - but the current crop aren’t convincing just yet.

Think the academy had a lot to do with those three you mentioned looking good from the get-go. It's a pretty handy platform development-wise.

I think it's common for youngsters to come in and struggle if the team around them is struggling. It takes a few special ones to rise above and actually play a major role in righting the ship. I'd like to have seen a bit more of that from the young group as a collective this year, but no cause for panic just because they haven't.

 

[bungee]

I would return Papley to the forwards. I think he went mid as a sop to keep him at the swans next year. He does far more damage forward. Kennedy selection was an error in my view. With 17 touches, that is a poor game for a mid. In a highly contested game, given the number of opportunities to get a possession in the mids anything less than 20 in this shortened game is poor. p.

It is amazing how often an elite afl player drops off the pace quickly at the end of their career. Kennedy may be at this precipice.

Next week, It would be worth considering a young midfield and letting them rip. Apparently Warner played a good game against freo in the scratch match, perhaps let him loose. Perhaps move Parker and Kennedy between mids and forward to spread the experience around a bit?

To be fair JPK would have been lacking match fitness, especially given the lack of a NEAFL comp. Let's see how he goes once he regains full match fitness.

I don't mind seeing Paps have a run in the midfield to get a touch if he's not getting much forward. Similarly, I don't mind seeing Parker or Kennedy rotate forward as both are strong overhead.

 

[bungee]

I wouldn't be worried about Elijah and Warner. They are both first year players, it's not a concern if they haven't blown us away. Ling I'd also want to see more of before making a call on him. Wicks and Foot could also be filed with these kids.

I don't understand the adoration over Port's kids. They look good, but of course they do. They're developing in a team with names like Gray, Boak, Hartlett, Wines, Dixon, Jonas, Byrne-Jones, Rockliff, Ebert, Lycett, McKenzie, Amon, Clurey, Westhoff and Motlop, who are all good-to-elite senior players. So Butters, Rozee, Farrell etc are not the cake, they are the cherry on top of a contender, in it's prime, in the premiership window.

Flashback to 2016, 2017 when we were a contender... how good did Aliir look debuting as a young defender? Mills won a Rising Star. Hayward the fastest player to 50 goals since Buddy Franklin. Hewett looked comfortable and played every game that year after debuting. Melican looked like a star young defender.

Very easy to look good as a youngster in a good side. The true test is how they perform when the going gets tough. It makes the body of work Rowbottom has put together all the more impressive. He has not had it anywhere near as comfortable to begin his career as Bailey Smith, Rozee, Butters etc have had, yet continues to stand up and perform week in, week out with minimal fuss.

I tend to agree with this assessment. I think the plan was to bring in plenty of youth under the guidance of seniors across the field but injuries to so many senior players over the last few years scuppered that and the sheer number of recent debutants with a lack of on-field guidance means we sometimes struggle to play as a team.

Against one of the best defensive teams in the comp we needed a coordinated forward line with clean entry inside 50. What we got was a midfield fighting each other for the same ball, bombing long inside 50 under pressure and forwards who were so clumped together that Freo's defence could easily come across and spoil or intercept. It's hard to take a contested mark in those conditions.

I'm happy enough with the list we're building but this team won't be consistently good until they can play as a team, week in week out.