List Mgmt. 2020 Tiges Big Improvers

[Grrr]

If any one is content with what Soldo offered outside of the ruck contest then they are delusional.

How many contested marks did this so called man mountain take last yr / Very few i can tell ya. He regularly went with very few possesions under 10 half his games in fact and another 4 he managed bang on ten disposals. He hd three games where he managed 12 13 and 14 disposals. For me he is a dinosaur, he is imo one of the slowest most cumbersome men in the afl.

How often did he actually win against his opponent when it comes to hit outs anyway.How often did he lose the disposal count.

I suppose the question has to be asked. Did he improve? of course he did but the real question is in what context? For me he could not be any worse around the ground than he was and thus it was a no brainer he would improve to some extent.

Where is he at? and where will he end up? Well right atm he is a servicable tap ruckman who remains pretty poor around the ground just my opinion.

Where will he end up? well only time will tell us that. My personal preference is we find a cross between Nankervis and Soldo so for me long term both remain replacable.
You never know he may just surprise.

And the truth is probably somewhere in between.

 

[tora tora tora]

If any one is content with what Soldo offered outside of the ruck contest then they are delusional.

How many contested marks did this so called man mountain take last yr / Very few i can tell ya. He regularly went with very few possesions under 10 half his games in fact and another 4 he managed bang on ten disposals. He hd three games where he managed 12 13 and 14 disposals. For me he is a dinosaur, he is imo one of the slowest most cumbersome men in the afl.

How often did he actually win against his opponent when it comes to hit outs anyway.How often did he lose the disposal count.

I suppose the question has to be asked. Did he improve? of course he did but the real question is in what context? For me he could not be any worse around the ground than he was and thus it was a no brainer he would improve to some extent.

Where is he at? and where will he end up? Well right atm he is a servicable tap ruckman who remains pretty poor around the ground just my opinion.

Where will he end up? well only time will tell us that. My personal preference is we find a cross between Nankervis and Soldo so for me long term both remain replacable.
You never know he may just surprise.

I don't remember his possessions per se. I remember that Soldo rucked and broke even with (or stopped any of them from playing blinders) All top level ruckmen: Hawthorn's McEvoy, Goldstein, Stanley, Saints McKenzie, Suns Witts, Grundy,(kept him to 36 ho & less than 10 kicks) Gawn, WC Eagles, Lions' Martin etc. etc.

 

[Rayzorwire]

Double post

 

[Rayzorwire]

If any one is content with what Soldo offered outside of the ruck contest then they are delusional.

Yep, a 22 game veteran coming from a non-football background matching elite rucks for goals and tackles will clearly never become anything but a 'tap ruckman.'

 

[Grrr]

I don't remember his possessions per se. I remember that Soldo rucked and broke even with (or stopped any of them from playing blinders) All top level ruckmen: Hawthorn's McEvoy, Goldstein, Stanley, Saints McKenzie, Suns Witts, Grundy,(kept him to 36 ho & less than 10 kicks) Gawn, WC Eagles, Lions' Martin etc. etc.

In 2017 when Nankervis was at his best he trouncing half those rucks, the only ones that gave him real trouble were probably Gawn and Nic Nat. Good battles with Grundy with Nank BOG in one of them.

 

[Dr Tigris]

I don't agree that Soldo isn't athletic enough. He's no sprinter, but he has good agility, leap and endurance. To me, these are the other three key criteria which make up 'athleticism.'

The way the game is heading, I would argue that agility, leap and endurance combined massively outweigh pure foot speed if you want to follow the 1.5 ruckmen model which is becoming more desirable for obvious reasons. Hitouts to advantage are pure gold and Soldo is excelling in this area, way beyond reasonable expectations.

He has a great blend of the key ingredients and if you look closely at the elite rucks in the modern era, with extremely few exceptions they first start banging out elite stats in their 5th seasons and onwards. Grundy's stats only begin to approach what they are today in his 6th year of playing. 22 games in he was averaging 11 disposals and 19 hitouts. Gawn was way behind Soldo at the same stage of his career and only starts to peak in his 5th year.

This will be the first season where Soldo goes in with a sense that not only does he belong at the level, he is a genuine 1st ruck. It's an enormous change of mindset which is only a handful of games old.

He's a genuine giant, taller, heavier and stronger than the majority of rucks and he was born with the natural competitive aggression which you can never teach a player. He already thrives on crashing bodies and out-muscling his opponents, there won't be a single ruck in the league who looks forward to playing on him this year and as Nank does, he will cause genuine fear at ground level among the smaller players.

Let's compare him again with the Gawn's and Grundy's when he's finished his 5th season (assuming he is fit for most of that period). I'm confident he'll be regarded as comfortably among the top quality 2nd tier rucks and it won't surprise me at all to see him rise even higher.

One thing Soldo does really well is use his strength to team advantage. Watch him in games when there's a stoppage. He usually doesn't try and get the ball, he uses his size and strength to move players around to our advantage. He'll hold an opposition player down - simply hold him so there is no free, but the guy cannot move the ball on. Sometimes last year I saw us actually winning contests because Soldo forced the contest to play out in a certain way to our advantage. Not many other rucks do that. It displays pretty good footy IQ, and amazing strength.

Also he'll often position himself against smaller players and create a mismatch offensively or defensively. When you watch you'll notice that after he sets himself up, and typically the ball doesn't go to him deliberately. When they have the ball he'll set up in the corridor and they simply don't kick near him cause he's too tall and can mark. Offensively he tends to run to about 40-45 out and sits just off centre. I presume that is a plan so that we have a tall option if needed and the defense has to put someone tallish on him, which frees up Tom and Jack … and Dusty. This isn't amazing football ability rather than smart play to use his size to our advantage. So long as he is in the right place at the right time he forces the game to be played more our way than otherwise.

 

[mopsy]

I don't remember his possessions per se. I remember that Soldo rucked and broke even with (or stopped any of them from playing blinders) All top level ruckmen: Hawthorn's McEvoy, Goldstein, Stanley, Saints McKenzie, Suns Witts, Grundy,(kept him to 36 ho & less than 10 kicks) Gawn, WC Eagles, Lions' Martin etc. etc.

He played against Ceglar McEvoy got hurt early, Ceglar had 26 disposals soldo 8 soldo won the hit outs 35 to 15.
Goldstein had 11 disposals to 4 and broke even in hit outs.
Stanley had 14 soldo 7 both had 33 hit outs

Marshall had 19 soldo 10 Marshal won the hit outs 33 20.
Witts had 19 soldo 8 and won the hitouts 36 to 25

simpson had 12 soldo 8 simpson won the hit outs 41 25

This is the general theme if you keep going.

As many have said he gives enough in the ruck but loses out badly around the ground.
The bloke is 24 in april by the way. Its not just the numbers although just 7 contested marks for the yr has to be a real concern its the influence his opponents have around the ground.I dont believe his ruck work makes up for that just yet.

A cross between Nankervis and Soldo would be ideal and would would aleviate the need to play two lumbering ruckmen.

 

[tiger_tough]

He played against Ceglar McEvoy got hurt early, Ceglar had 26 disposals soldo 8 soldo won the hit outs 35 to 15.
Goldstein had 11 disposals to 4 and broke even in hit outs.
Stanley had 14 soldo 7 both had 33 hit outs

Marshall had 19 soldo 10 Marshal won the hit outs 33 20.
Witts had 19 soldo 8 and won the hitouts 36 to 25

simpson had 12 soldo 8 simpson won the hit outs 41 25

This is the general theme if you keep going.

As many have said he gives enough in the ruck but loses out badly around the ground.
The bloke is 24 in april by the way. Its not just the numbers although just 7 contested marks for the yr has to be a real concern its the influence his opponents have around the ground.I dont believe his ruck work makes up for that just yet.

A cross between Nankervis and Soldo would be ideal and would would aleviate the need to play two lumbering ruckmen.

Yep. He improved a lot, but he has a long way to go. Nank is far superior around the ground when he's fit. They're a good combo.

 

[Rayzorwire]

One thing Soldo does really well is use his strength to team advantage. Watch him in games when there's a stoppage. He usually doesn't try and get the ball, he uses his size and strength to move players around to our advantage. He'll hold an opposition player down - simply hold him so there is no free, but the guy cannot move the ball on. Sometimes last year I saw us actually winning contests because Soldo forced the contest to play out in a certain way to our advantage. Not many other rucks do that. It displays pretty good footy IQ, and amazing strength.

Also he'll often position himself against smaller players and create a mismatch offensively or defensively. When you watch you'll notice that after he sets himself up, and typically the ball doesn't go to him deliberately. When they have the ball he'll set up in the corridor and they simply don't kick near him cause he's too tall and can mark. Offensively he tends to run to about 40-45 out and sits just off centre. I presume that is a plan so that we have a tall option if needed and the defense has to put someone tallish on him, which frees up Tom and Jack … and Dusty. This isn't amazing football ability rather than smart play to use his size to our advantage. So long as he is in the right place at the right time he forces the game to be played more our way than otherwise.

Very well explained and not easy points to get across.

 

[Rayzorwire]

This is the general theme if you keep going.

Nice try, no cigar.

To finish the year he beat Hickey, broke even with a rampaging Martin twice, broke even with Stanley and dead set smashed Mumford into the car park.

If you're not happy with that from a bloke from a non-football background playing games 18-22, then you're impossible to please and clearly searching way harder for negatives than positives.

 

[mopsy]

Nice try, no cigar.

To finish the year he beat Hickey, broke even with a rampaging Martin twice, broke even with Stanley and dead set smashed Mumford into the car park.

If you're not happy with that from a bloke from a non-football background playing games 18-22, then you're impossible to please and clearly searching way harder for negatives than positives.

Lol that is so so funny you have made my day.
Also typical always wanting to cherry pick the facts.

Lets add some context here to the hysteria. So he beat Hickey!!!! theres a reason why hes at his third club. He was nothing but insurance when Lycett left and Naitanui with his injury problems didnt look like getting up.
Id take hickey any way atm and he had a poor season as well.

So he broke even with Martin twice eh lol thats a nice take on it. He was badly beaten around the ground and he managed to break even in the ruck contests.Nothing new there, every one acknowledges hes okay in the ruck. He broke even with Stanley as well in the prelim another delusional take on things.
He was smashed around the ground and with such a massive height advantage only managed to break even in the ruck, he should have dominated Steff Martin in the ruck as well but didnt. Funny how there is always two or more ways of looking at things.

Lol he dead set smashed Mumford. You mean the old fella who retired who they bought back because there was no one else, even then Mumford managed to win more ball around the ground. The best ruckman on the ground in the g/f was Nankervis when fit he obtains disposal numbers Soldo to date only dreams about.

So this what is he 205cm 106kg goliath could only take 7 contested marks for the year and you think that is acceptable.

You hang ya hat on the non footy background crap, and very few games. The simple fact is in the main he has been horrid around the ground and in the air yes hes been decent in the ruck managing to break even most of the time but he is 24 in april and he should manage to break even due to his height and size in the ruck contests. He is slow cumbersome lacks agility and cant mark.
Atm id say he is a poor mans Dawson Simpson who gave him an absolute bath in rnd 17.

Did he improve of course.The thing you ignore is he improved from such a low level that if he didnt improve he would probably be gone.He was absolutely shocking until this yr and areas remain pretty poor imo.
What you cant see is around the ground he is not at a good enough level still.He may or he may not get there but atm he has remained poor in this area.
What level has he improved to? well for me he remains behind nearly all starting ruckmen in the league and id take a fair few second stringers in front of him as well, to play as second stringers because they offer something in the air and they arent liabilities like soldo across the ground.

Its just my opinion but id be chasing a cross between both Nankervis and Soldo i think it will get back and bite us playing two such lumbering ruckmen.

Any way thanks for the laughs as per usual we disagree.For once heres hoping your right and he can keep improving but right at the moment for me hes not up to afl standard in too many areas.

 

[Rayzorwire]

Like I said, perpetually negative, impossible to please.

Yawn.

 

[Marcel Proust]

Lol that is so so funny you have made my day.
Also typical always wanting to cherry pick the facts.

Lets add some context here to the hysteria. So he beat Hickey!!!! theres a reason why hes at his third club. He was nothing but insurance when Lycett left and Naitanui with his injury problems didnt look like getting up.
Id take hickey any way atm and he had a poor season as well.

So he broke even with Martin twice eh lol thats a nice take on it. He was badly beaten around the ground and he managed to break even in the ruck contests.Nothing new there, every one acknowledges hes okay in the ruck. He broke even with Stanley as well in the prelim another delusional take on things.
He was smashed around the ground and with such a massive height advantage only managed to break even in the ruck, he should have dominated Steff Martin in the ruck as well but didnt. Funny how there is always two or more ways of looking at things.

Lol he dead set smashed Mumford. You mean the old fella who retired who they bought back because there was no one else, even then Mumford managed to win more ball around the ground. The best ruckman on the ground in the g/f was Nankervis when fit he obtains disposal numbers Soldo to date only dreams about.

So this what is he 205cm 106kg goliath could only take 7 contested marks for the year and you think that is acceptable.

You hang ya hat on the non footy background crap, and very few games. The simple fact is in the main he has been horrid around the ground and in the air yes hes been decent in the ruck managing to break even most of the time but he is 24 in april and he should manage to break even due to his height and size in the ruck contests. He is slow cumbersome lacks agility and cant mark.
Atm id say he is a poor mans Dawson Simpson who gave him an absolute bath in rnd 17.

Did he improve of course.The thing you ignore is he improved from such a low level that if he didnt improve he would probably be gone.He was absolutely shocking until this yr and areas remain pretty poor imo.
What you cant see is around the ground he is not at a good enough level still.He may or he may not get there but atm he has remained poor in this area.
What level has he improved to? well for me he remains behind nearly all starting ruckmen in the league and id take a fair few second stringers in front of him as well, to play as second stringers because they offer something in the air and they arent liabilities like soldo across the ground.

Its just my opinion but id be chasing a cross between both Nankervis and Soldo i think it will get back and bite us playing two such lumbering ruckmen.

Any way thanks for the laughs as per usual we disagree.For once heres hoping your right and he can keep improving but right at the moment for me hes not up to afl standard in too many areas.

Hasn't soldo only played 30 odd games of football. Ever?

 

[Grrr]

Hasn't soldo only played 30 odd games of football. Ever?

Not quite. Played over age TAC cup for a season, or some of it. Has played a fair bit of VFL and 22 senior games. But it is not his ruck craft that is in question, because he is a good tap ruckman, it is his lack of mobility. Not sure that is going to improve much with more games at 24 years of age.

 

[tora tora tora]

i thought i'd have a look at my crystal ball gazing... RCD? still waiting

 

[Nebular]

I think Bolton goes to a new new level!
showed signs last year of doing well in the midfield.
Another preseason in the gym, stronger, better endurance with his skill set he’s about to explode IMO

Good call

 

[Nebular]

I picked Stack lol. Looks like Bolton Balta and Baker so far.

 

[The Mighty]

Bolton, Bakes, and Balta have played themselves off of that list into incumbency.

 

[tora tora tora]

Bolton, Bakes, and Balta have played themselves off of that list into incumbency.

Jack Ross though, isn't getting past Graham or Stack.