2020 Trade and FA journey...OR HOW I LEARNED TO STOP WORRYING ABOUT DAN BUTLER AND LOVE MY TEAM

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HAWKSBESTEVA

Senior List
Jun 14, 2020
291
485
AFL Club
Hawthorn
He's been pretty much playing nonstop midfield this season for Freo. Also been one of their better players, would not come that cheap.
Never said he would come cheap , he was taken in the top 10. Serong, brayshaw, Walters, fyfe, conca, blakely, Mundy all soaking up midfield minutes. Cerra has been playing a bit of fwd.
 

Bugs1977

Premiership Player
May 3, 2018
4,249
11,594
AFL Club
Hawthorn
Other Teams
Parramatta Eels, Detroit Pistons
The fact he’s a 2 time all aus, probably been in the squad 4 times aswell probably says enough about him. I’ve watched him enough to have a fair idea on what sort of player he is. As far as our recruiting goes, we probably have a 30% strike rate at best with our picks around the 20-30 mark. And none of the players around that mark have turned out to be guns
I’ve seen Laird a fair bit over the years and I’m not deny that he’s good at all. I’m just stating that we don’t need to be wasting anymore draft picks on guys in that 27+ years of age range. IMO the list strategy changes the moment Mitch broke his leg and invariably cost him a season of footy. We need to go down a similar path to what Port recently did by drafting guys like Rozee, Duursma, Georgiades and Butters. We’ve already added Day and hopefully once he debuts Maginness adds to the mix as well. We likely have Downie coming in the draft but we need some more quality kids. The focus in my opinion needs to be in 5 years time not the next 1-2. Unfortunately some of our senior players just might not be around when we start to contend again which is unfortunate for them but it’s all about the club and not those individuals.
 

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Bugs1977

Premiership Player
May 3, 2018
4,249
11,594
AFL Club
Hawthorn
Other Teams
Parramatta Eels, Detroit Pistons
Honestly the chance of getting someone as good as Laird with a 2nd round pick in a heavily compromised draft is incredibly unlikely. I would give that 2nd up in a heart beat but Adelaide would want a lot more.
It’s a pipe dream getting him for a 2nd rounder so what’s point even discussing it. He’ll go to a club that is in the premiership window which I don’t believe we are. I’d much rather we purse Zac Williams and if decides to take a Gillion dollars at GWS then so be it we just hit the draft. I reckon it’s time we surround our core of 23-26 year olds with some talented kids and go from there. We’ll be able to control their development and also retain them for on the cheap while on their rookie contracts.
 

SuperSic

All Australian
Oct 16, 2018
651
2,256
AFL Club
Hawthorn
Really doesn’t fit a need? We’ve had trouble with small forwards all year. As much as we hang sh*t on Stratton, he’s done all the big jobs over the years, when he’s done we will literally have hardwick as our only small defender. I like hardwick as a player but I’ve seen a few small forwards get a hold of him over the years.
I just did a quick count and small forwards have kicked 28 goals against Adelaide so far this year. Obviously that isn’t all Laird’s fault but if you think he would be able to come in and fill Stratton’s defensive role then you will be severely let down. Laird is an accumulator who doesn’t damage opposition teams, not a lock down defender.

Hardwick offers more defensive capability and effective rebounding than Laird and I have the stats to prove this. Laird has lost 75% of his defensive 1v1’s in 2020 compared to Hardwick who has lost 42.9%, despite Hardwick contesting twice as many contests. Hardwick also makes 3.5 times more spoils that Laird per game. Hardwick’s kick efficiency (81.9%) is 14.2% better than Laird (67.7%) which is a very significant difference. Hardwick also gains significantly more ground with his disposals. Don’t forget that Hardwick is 3 years younger too so he has more room for growth and improvement than Laird.

I’m quite strong in my opinion that Laird is overrated and I know that is jarring because of the public and media perception of him. I’d honestly rather play Impey, Hardwick, Scrimshaw, Frost or Day on smalls and continue to persist with CJ, Morrison, Greaves etc. than pay the exorbitant price it would cost for Laird. Anyway that’s my rant on that topic.
 
Jul 17, 2020
33
41
AFL Club
Hawthorn
I just did a quick count and small forwards have kicked 28 goals against Adelaide so far this year. Obviously that isn’t all Laird’s fault but if you think he would be able to come in and fill Stratton’s defensive role then you will be severely let down. Laird is an accumulator who doesn’t damage opposition teams, not a lock down defender.

Hardwick offers more defensive capability and effective rebounding than Laird and I have the stats to prove this. Laird has lost 75% of his defensive 1v1’s in 2020 compared to Hardwick who has lost 42.9%, despite Hardwick contesting twice as many contests. Hardwick also makes 3.5 times more spoils that Laird per game. Hardwick’s kick efficiency (81.9%) is 14.2% better than Laird (67.7%) which is a very significant difference. Hardwick also gains significantly more ground with his disposals. Don’t forget that Hardwick is 3 years younger too so he has more room for growth and improvement than Laird.

I’m quite strong in my opinion that Laird is overrated and I know that is jarring because of the public and media perception of him. I’d honestly rather play Impey, Hardwick, Scrimshaw, Frost or Day on smalls and continue to persist with CJ, Morrison, Greaves etc. than pay the exorbitant price it would cost for Laird. Anyway that’s my rant on that topic.
I tend to agree re: Laird. He's a great accumulator so looks good on the stats sheet but is not a long penetrating kick or a quick linebreaker. He generally makes good but safe decisions with the ball, lots of short safe chip kicks like Andrew Gaff. He doesn't win a huge amount of 1 v 1s.

I don't think he's a bad player, but I find it difficult to see why we would want to give up anything for a 27 year old back pocket accumulator? It's hard to think of a player type we need less..
 

danielG

Rookie
Jun 27, 2009
49
16
richmond
AFL Club
Hawthorn
If we can land Williams this Changed our whole dynamic. I’d play him on the wing for sure.
I tend to agree, Williams is just the sort of player that would improve us as a team immediately.
We see with the addition of quicker "take the game on" players on team looks immeasurably better. Having a rusty Impey and also Bruest back in our team we look a different team. We rely heavily on quick precise ball movement out of our back half and when we don't have an Impey type providing that we look pedestrian. If we could add Williams and either he or Impey moves up a line closer to goal we add two players who have the mind set and ability to take the game on.
My question is, is there any word that we have an interest there... Normally we hear that there is a target in the media...I really hope we do and don't try and underpay...There will be suitors out there who are happy to pay up.. We can't rely on being a destination club anymore, we need to pay for quality... Not overpay, but be willing to pay reasonably.
 

Lickmesocks

Team Captain
Oct 2, 2019
483
1,566
AFL Club
Hawthorn
What we are seeing is the teams that have manic run and attack the game to win it and move the ball quickly are the best sides by a mile.

The old set up defensive and play a stodgy game style of chip sideways and backwards are over and hopefully in the bin forever.

Whatever free agent we go after must fit the above bill. Fast and move the ball with some skill.

Anything else on offer we pass and keep our cash and hit the draft.
 

rogiebear93

Norm Smith Medallist
May 17, 2017
5,683
12,089
AFL Club
Hawthorn
What we are seeing is the teams that have manic run and attack the game to win it and move the ball quickly are the best sides by a mile.

The old set up defensive and play a stodgy game style of chip sideways and backwards are over and hopefully in the bin forever.

Whatever free agent we go after must fit the above bill. Fast and move the ball with some skill.

Anything else on offer we pass and keep our cash and hit the draft.
What we've seen historically is that teams don't succeed by trying to imitate the most successful sides of the era. There's nothing to be gained by trying to build our team to be Richmond, the key is to build a team that beats Richmond.
 

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theiaofseed

Senior List
Jun 17, 2019
204
289
AFL Club
Hawthorn
I don’t think Laird is the type of player you should be trading for. Zac Williams on the other hand can play as an inside/outside midfielder as well as a half back flanker. Personally I think Williams would be a better fit than someone like Laird who can only play in the one position.
Williams and Atkins would be great free agent pick ups
 

theiaofseed

Senior List
Jun 17, 2019
204
289
AFL Club
Hawthorn
What we've seen historically is that teams don't succeed by trying to imitate the most successful sides of the era. There's nothing to be gained by trying to build our team to be Richmond, the key is to build a team that beats Richmond.
Yep Richmond struggled for years trying to be Hawthorn then surprise surprise what happened when they formed their own style.
 

TylerDurden

Premium Platinum
Mar 5, 2007
9,419
24,751
Lou's Tavern
AFL Club
Hawthorn
What we are seeing is the teams that have manic run and attack the game to win it and move the ball quickly are the best sides by a mile.

The old set up defensive and play a stodgy game style of chip sideways and backwards are over and hopefully in the bin forever.

Whatever free agent we go after must fit the above bill. Fast and move the ball with some skill.

Anything else on offer we pass and keep our cash and hit the draft.
Spot on. Zac Williams the key here.
 

Judd2Sewell

Brownlow Medallist
Aug 31, 2008
10,810
12,985
AFL Club
Hawthorn
Other Teams
Nuggets
Williams offers versatility as an individual player - alongside skill and pace. He can play HBF at an AA level and is also a very capable midfielder, as evidenced by his time in there last year when GWS had several players out. He was their best performing player through that time.

But more importantly he offers even more versatility for the Clarko and the rest of the team. We can afford to play release Impey to play up forward and in-turn Wingard more in the middle.
 

Mitchell54

Norm Smith Medallist
Oct 6, 2013
9,078
6,204
AFL Club
Hawthorn
Other Teams
Sixers, Exers, GWS Womens
Extremely soft. Poor kick for an outside player. Not a line breaker for an outside player.

And isn't getting a game for a team that's locked on the bottom of the ladder.
This is also the club that didn't think Greenwood was even worth trying to keep. Also the club that consistently acts in an unprofessional manner whether that be throwing fits at players leaving, infamous 2018 pre-season camp, salary cap scandal etc. I wouldn't be taking the opinion of anyone involved at Adelaide with any weight.
 

Judd2Sewell

Brownlow Medallist
Aug 31, 2008
10,810
12,985
AFL Club
Hawthorn
Other Teams
Nuggets
This is also the club that didn't think Greenwood was even worth trying to keep. Also the club that consistently acts in an unprofessional manner whether that be throwing fits at players leaving, infamous 2018 pre-season camp, salary cap scandal etc. I wouldn't be taking the opinion of anyone involved at Adelaide with any weight.
I'll just base it on my observations then. Poor kick, most probably the softest player in the league and doesn't offer genuine pace. Not versatile either.
 

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