List Mgmt. 2020 Trade/FA TARGETS

[Strapping Young Lad]

Trade hypotheticals and discussion of how you think or want a trade to happen go here - 2020 FA, Draft and Trade HYPOTHETICAL thread.

If you want to talk about a current Hawthorn player and if they’re staying on the list, it goes here - Should I stay or should I go now? End of season list management discussion (now continued for 2020)

Trade/FA targets thread is for discussion of News about players we are to target via trade of FA. It’s not for “Kane Cornes

Kane Cornes

Age

41

Ht

183cm

Wt

78kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

23.5

5star

K

12.5

5star

HB

11.0

5star

M

5.2

5star

T

3.3

5star

CL

2.6

4star

No current season stats available

D

13.0

4star

K

7.6

3star

HB

5.4

4star

M

3.0

3star

T

1.2

3star

says we should get this player”.

 

[DapperJong]

Lol bosk

 

[Hawkas1988]

Absolutely embarrassing stuff.

Other parts of BF are having a field day on Hawks supporters about our confidence re Whitfield over the past year and then we have some supporters acting like this. Makes us look ridiculous.

 

[The Chad and I]

You follow a plastic franchise based in an ethnic slum.

WTF?

 

[MrPremiership]

How many days until trade period?

303 days til trade period!

 

[Rushed_Behind]

Agreed
Things like how infrequently a Vic team travels vs an interstate one.
How this impacts the crowd influence for the interstate teams signifianctly more than the Vic teams.
How Vic still produces, and will for some time produce most of the draftees, and thus rarely combats any "go home" factor that is very real for interstate teams.
How frequently Vic teams play at the MCG, the compulsory GF venue, vs interstate teams.
How the AFL's favourite sounding board, the Herald Sun, reports things with a distinct Vic bias.
How much the star players in Vic can earn doing media or endorsements vs an interstate player of the same quality.

As far as I know the AFL rules state that all teams have the same cap, so if the giants overspend it will come home to roost very quickly, if, as I believe they are building a buy in culture pioneered by the Hawks and the Cats then this is a non-story

Salary cap forced the giants to give the hawks Scully and Patton for bugger all, also forced the swans to not match on Mitchell

Telling a story from only one perspective is rife with the risk of looking dumb when the facts are faced.

Good luck with your future Trade and FA journey, your club's culture and professionalism will no doubt bring sucess sooner rather than later.

the only one looking dumb here is you.

You’ve written a wall of text turning this into a Vic bashing.

the whole competition is compromised I’ve said in my text.

The Gold Coast concessions, equalisation tax, ambassador payments, COLA et al.

Nothing your mob does or has done should be compared to hawthorn. There are no similarities[/QUOTE]

 

[Easy Slips Catch]

You follow a plastic franchise based in an ethnic slum...

Would have run with cultural wasteland rather than slum. But hard to argue. GWS is not a place, it is a descriptor advertisers use.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Building a buy in culture with 6-7 year multimillion dollar contracts.

 

[Brishawk]

Building a buy in culture with 6-7 year multimillion dollar contracts.

Buying a stairway to heaven?

 

[Hawk Dork]

The AFL will need to supply the fire exit and the parachutes

 

[MrPremiership]

The AFL will need to supply the fire exit and the parachutes

almost as if GWS have learnt nothing after having to offload Lobb, Scully and Patton for nothing/4th rounders

 

[flinchfree]

Agreed
Things like how infrequently a Vic team travels vs an interstate one.
How this impacts the crowd influence for the interstate teams signifianctly more than the Vic teams.
How Vic still produces, and will for some time produce most of the draftees, and thus rarely combats any "go home" factor that is very real for interstate teams.
How frequently Vic teams play at the MCG, the compulsory GF venue, vs interstate teams.
How the AFL's favourite sounding board, the Herald Sun, reports things with a distinct Vic bias.
How much the star players in Vic can earn doing media or endorsements vs an interstate player of the same quality.

As far as I know the AFL rules state that all teams have the same cap, so if the giants overspend it will come home to roost very quickly, if, as I believe they are building a buy in culture pioneered by the Hawks and the Cats then this is a non-story

Salary cap forced the giants to give the hawks Scully and Patton for bugger all, also forced the swans to not match on Mitchell

Telling a story from only one perspective is rife with the risk of looking dumb when the facts are faced.

Good luck with your future Trade and FA journey, your club's culture and professionalism will no doubt bring sucess sooner rather than later.

I actually agree with much of what you've written. The difference is those Vic 'benefits' were not contrived but born of the success of our game in the State of Victoria. It's ability to produce vast numbers of the best players, the fact it's populace has gone out to watch and support their local teams consistently over so very many decades, the dollars generated in this market to sustain the league etc etc. I mean, imagine if the game had to live off what goes for support in Australia's biggest and most populated state, NSW? We'd all be dead as dog s**t and be a part time amateur league.
And some of what you reference eg playing at the MCG...I mean, really? You think the Giants should play in front of 4,500 people for it's home games 8-10 times a year? There's a reason Vic teams play at the G. It's the HOME of many teams and the spiritual home for the rest. It's not the venue of the GF, it's the Mecca of football. If you haven't visited with 85,000 people in it, you haven't lived Aussie rules football.
Go home factor? Meh, a huge number of players happily relocate for life if their club and state treat them well. Lot of Vic kids love riding waves in WA and not a few will set up their forever digs in Manly.

If you're telling me that to balance out those vagaries of natural systemic benefit the AFL will openly and forthrightly pay certain flegling teams and players differently to other markets to ensure their survival - I think that's fair and honest and as it should be.
I've argued the same point of view on here many times.

But to suggest that Vic teams or our board in particular are wearing tinfoil hats to suspect non-equal monetary restraints regardless of the huge splashes of cash at extraordinary length contracts over SO MANY players, well, that's just dick thinking and behavior of yours.

Be proud to be a suckling infant at the teat of the AFL, growing into the child and adult you hope to one day be. Encourage all to be as transparent as your club should in fact be, that an agreed upon plan based on sound logic is one we should all grudgingly get behind. And that money inequitably meted out to some is a mighty factor in the growth and bounty to be shared by all parties over the long game.

Playing devils advocate however using superstitious guesses and lies about our own Clubs history is super, super disingenuous.

 

[Tomohawks]

Whitfield being the massive big game player he is would have been a great get
I’m just hoping we can keep our club together

Lachie who? We have Will day!

 

[Determinant]

I actually agree with much of what you've written. The difference is those Vic 'benefits' were not contrived but born of the success of our game in the State of Victoria. It's ability to produce vast numbers of the best players, the fact it's populace has gone out to watch and support their local teams consistently over so very many decades, the dollars generated in this market to sustain the league etc etc. I mean, imagine if the game had to live off what goes for support in Australia's biggest and most populated state, NSW? We'd all be dead as dog s**t and be a part time amateur league.
And some of what you reference eg playing at the MCG...I mean, really? You think the Giants should play in front of 4,500 people for it's home games 8-10 times a year? There's a reason Vic teams play at the G. It's the HOME of many teams and the spiritual home for the rest. It's not the venue of the GF, it's the Mecca of football. If you haven't visited with 85,000 people in it, you haven't lived Aussie rules football.
Go home factor? Meh, a huge number of players happily relocate for life if their club and state treat them well. Lot of Vic kids love riding waves in WA and not a few will set up their forever digs in Manly.

If you're telling me that to balance out those vagaries of natural systemic benefit the AFL will openly and forthrightly pay certain flegling teams and players differently to other markets to ensure their survival - I think that's fair and honest and as it should be.
I've argued the same point of view on here many times.

But to suggest that Vic teams or our board in particular are wearing tinfoil hats to suspect non-equal monetary restraints regardless of the huge splashes of cash at extraordinary length contracts over SO MANY players, well, that's just dick thinking and behavior of yours.

Be proud to be a suckling infant at the teat of the AFL, growing into the child and adult you hope to one day be. Encourage all to be as transparent as your club should in fact be, that an agreed upon plan based on sound logic is one we should all grudgingly get behind. And that money inequitably meted out to some is a mighty factor in the growth and bounty to be shared by all parties over the long game.

Playing devils advocate however using superstitious guesses and lies about our own Clubs history is super, super disingenuous.

It's a little unfortunate that a couple of people have felt I was being disrespectful.
I've been a sainter for 40 years and was born in Melbourne, I have a reasonable understanding of both the VFL (as it was) and the AFL.

My post was aimed at two things and two things only.
1. to agree with the poster I quoted, who responded with insult so maybe he didn't see it that way, that genuine equalisation is never going to happen, because even if every other factor was 100% even, the line items I stated mean the competition is still unequal. I except that and don't want to champion some sort of new wave competition, the interstate teams joined the comp knowingly.
2. to respond to the reasoning that somehow the giants have a different salary cap to everyone else, that's just pure bullshit, and as I stated if we breach it we will be caught, if we haven't then it's good list management.

Your last line I simply don't understand, unless you thought there was insincerity where none was intended.

Good luck for 2020 and beyond, I really hope you guys get Jonno right, he was a hugely popular guy up here amongst the playing group and the core supporters.

 

[Hawk Dork]

2. to respond to the reasoning that somehow the giants have a different salary cap to everyone else, that's just pure bullshit, and as I stated if we breach it we will be caught, if we haven't then it's good list management.

But it doesnt add up

and who would you get caught by the people who allow it to happen ?

 

[Brant]

But it doesnt add up

and who would you get caught by the people who allow it to happen ?

#nocap
#ownit

 

[PhatHQ]

So.... Brad Crouch the eh?

 

[MrPremiership]

So.... Brad Crouch the eh?

meh, unenthused and money hungry

Went to the Suns this year asking for 900k and even they said no. Then he dropped his asking price to 700k and they still didn't bite....

When Suns aren't offering good young players big money, you know there is an issue there.

I'd like to trade for Wines....looks incredibly gettable

 

[Brant]

meh, unenthused and money hungry

Went to the Suns this year asking for 900k and even they said no. Then he dropped his asking price to 700k and they still didn't bite....

When Suns aren't offering good young players big money, you know there is an issue there.

I'd like to trade for Wines....looks incredibly gettable

Gettable, but necessary?

Hates hitting teammates & I'm not sure he's real versatile.

 

[Glacier]

Ask Nashy

 

[moginie]

Gettable, but necessary?

Hates hitting teammates & I'm not sure he's real versatile.

You'd be right. Wines hit his ceiling three years ago.

 

[Andre the Giant]

But it doesnt add up

and who would you get caught by the people who allow it to happen ?

If it’s merely an AFL procession then try to explain the umpiring in the 2016 prelim or did the AFL need to conjure a Bulldog fairytale before letting its baby reach the promised land?

Kelly, Coniglio, Cameron, Greene and Whitfield have all taken significantly less than what they could have earned at rival clubs.

Their deals have been smoothed over with length of tenure which is a strategy which carries significant risk.

Injury and motivation can significantly affect these types of deals and historically deals over 4 years are fraught with danger but it’s the price we have to pay to keep players at a small fledgling club.

This is not a procession it just a completely different and unique scenario with a galvanised group of young men desperate to achieve a collective goal built together from scratch.

 

[Brant]

If it’s merely an AFL procession then try to explain the umpiring in the 2016 prelim or did the AFL need to conjure a Bulldog fairytale before letting its baby reach the promised land?

Kelly, Coniglio, Cameron, Greene and Whitfield have all taken significantly less than what they could have earned at rival clubs.

Their deals have been smoothed over with length of tenure which is a strategy which carries significant risk.

Injury and motivation can significantly affect these types of deals and historically deals over 4 years are fraught with danger but it’s the price we have to pay to keep players at a small fledgling club.

This is not a procession it just a completely different and unique scenario with a galvanised group of young men desperate to achieve a collective goal built together from scratch.

Check the umpiring all 2016 in favour of the Throwdogs - especially their final against us: 101 tackles for 3 free kicks. YES - that Premier was decided at the end of 2015. You're spot on - that's exactly what the AFL did - hand one to Footscray before GilWS matured.

The 5 players you mention didn't take 'unders' to stay with you. Cogs, for example, was offered less than $1m to play at HFC (rumoured about $900k by our ITK), yet with #ambassador payments he accepted considerably more to stay at GilWS. Don't compare what a player could demand at North Melbourne to what their actual market rate is at a real club. Just because North offer $1.3m doesn't mean the player is worth more than $900k; nor, should that player be congratulated for signing on at $900k with a view to success at GILWS - just for refusing North's offer of $1.3m (and all other offers at $850k).

Signing these guys to extended contracts isn't the risk it would be at other Clubs - you know why... Signing these guys to long deals signifies allegiance & commitment to younger guys - exactly what it's supposed to do. It's an investment in getting younger guys to continue to sign - not a risk of being stuck with a long-term injured player - again, you know why.

I agree that the GilWS list is being galvanised, but it's the unseen hand tipping the scales in GilWS' List Management favour that is allowing it.

For what it's worth, I have no issue with a guy getting $950k when his market value is $800k if he had no interest in leaving anyway - good luck to him. What upsets me (& maybe a bunch of others) is that you get to keep multiple guys at $800k (or $950k) when other Clubs couldn't afford to due to Salary Cap pressure. The other corruption is that GilWS can then match bids for RFA with impunity, when structuring a front-ended deal should preclude it from being possible.

I'm 100% in agreement that your players are desperate to achieve a collective goal - they collectively all want to be the hero on Grand Final Day - probs why they play like an All Star Team & get dismantled when they meet real opposition.

To finish... the club was built in a boardroom, (with the greatest haul of draft concessions known to the sport), in another State, based on a marketing decision as to how to generate new revenue streams. If that is the new definition of 'from scratch', so be it...

 

[flinchfree]

It's a little unfortunate that a couple of people have felt I was being disrespectful.
................

.............

Kelly, Coniglio, Cameron, Greene and Whitfield have all taken significantly less than what they could have earned at rival clubs.

None of what you're saying makes any sense, even within your own arguments.

I thought it cost more to live in Sydney than other locales, thus the need for extra dollars to keep players at the same level as their counterparts?
I thought you said there were fewer opportunities to make money outside the game in NSW doing promotionals etc.?
I thought there was this incredible go home factor your club was having to fight?

AND IN SPITE OF THE ABOVE, you're telling me that GWS can pay its best superstar players LESS than everyone else in the competition would, to live in a MORE EXPENSIVE city, have fewer job opportunities outside the game to set themselves up, be away from family and friends while doing so, because.....

They're playing for such an incredible organization that they feel pledged to?
That's delivered them professional success like premierships that outweigh the need to be set up for life after footy?
That their coach is the reason they want to stay, being such a revered figure in footy that they want to stay in his knowing hands?
That they love the commute to training in the 'West' of Sydney?
That their friends have stayed to keep the winning train going and can't imagine sharing similar memories with other club's players? Oh yeh, won WHAT???

Because it's not like we have a comparison in Sydney to judge by.....or -
Yup, you're going to tell me that even though the relocated South Melbourne football team needed private squillions to players to get them to come or stay in Sydney, that it has needed extra money outside the cap (aaaaand at least publicly owned by management of the Club as being a NECESSITY to be viable in that market) to survive, that has a rusted on and real Sydney following that has been there since their relocation, and that even as it was weened of COLA decried the move...
That the GWS is somehow managing this magical slight of hand to overcome ALL of the above, without paying it's players not just ABOVE what's appropriate to stay, but LESS than the market would pay?????????????????????????????

You guys are effing loony tunes.
It's one thing to want to represent and make out your team is great and all, but another to try and force LA LA land garbage down the rest of our throats.

 

[JaegarTime]

Hope we have a crack at Williams from GWS. Use as a mid not half back.
Played one of the finals this year predominantly on the ball and dominated. Adds extra dynamic to our midfield with real speed and skill but also has the hard ball winning capabilities. Better option than Crouch/Wines imo.

Being he’s a free agent is obviously a plus as well. SURELY the seemingly non existent GWS cap can’t be an issue with this because it has to break somewhere

 

[JaegarTime]

Also have heard De Goey WILL be leaving Collingwood end of this year. He’s got the game winning ability but maybe not a player we structurally need?