List Mgmt. 2020 Trade and List Management Thread II

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Flawed Genius said:
Sam Skinner = The Uncle
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Sam Skinner = The Old Man
 
shintemaster said:
They just need to keep the clubs with big pockets vaguely happy and the rest on life support for things to continue as is. FWIW restricted FA is probably the biggest issue. Players should be FA or not - no in between, which probably means that trading without player approval during the previous years needs to be thought about.
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It probably starts with the broadcasters. They want the most eyeballs to sell to advertisers which means designing a fixture that maximises viewers. That means the biggest clubs getting the best slots for viewing. The big clubs just need to go along with the ride.

The matching seems like a big issue but it has still never actually happened. Has forced a few clubs to the trade table I guess.
 

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LB2Snake said:
We were always gunna get shafted on this.......the fact the crows and saints can “cook the books” here is ridiculous. The game is broken if this sh*t is allowed to happen.
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It's not just us getting shafted. Hawks, Swans, Carlton and * will all be getting screwed too. So it might not happen.
 
archereleven said:
Will Powell - Skinny kid that may/may not ever develop an AFL body - pick 9

Ben Brown - 3 x Coleman worthy seasons - pick 28



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Paying for potential I suppose.... one has big future ahead the other might have best days behind him


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Psicosis said:
Two first rounders should be our starting point in negotiations, and work back from there.

Late first or 2 seconds is where we should land.
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So we ask for two first rounders despite you, literally two hours earlier, saying:

Psicosis said:
It’s pretty clear that only a couple clubs are interested in Brown, therefor this expectation that he had a s*** tonne of value which North ruined, is just garbage.

Brown did not have rival clubs knocking on Norths door, asking if he is available. He just does not have the market demand that many like to fantasise.
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We're not getting two first rounders and you know it. We laugh at Dodoro's trade requests but at least they have been consistent that they want to keep their players.

Whether his manager was being a dick or not, we've done ourselves a dis-service by telling him to leave. Though I still would prefer we kept him, I do get the currency/rebuild argument. But that has to work for us. And if all we get is a pick in the 20s, then I don't think that's a win for us.
 
shintemaster said:
They just need to keep the clubs with big pockets vaguely happy and the rest on life support for things to continue as is. FWIW restricted FA is probably the biggest issue. Players should be FA or not - no in between, which probably means that trading without player approval during the previous years needs to be thought about.
Click to expand...

I’ve long thought a proper solution to this problem is that players can be traded wherever the club wants, but as soon as the player is out of contract they’re a free agent and can sign wherever they like. Increase first round draft pick contracts to 4 years if needed. That way, clubs can get something decent by trading the player to the highest bidder, instead of this trash where a player nominates a club that has nothing to trade and so the owning club gets screwed. Players lose a bit by being able to be traded where they don’t want to go, but get back that they can be a free agent after 2-3-4 years and can go where they want after that.
 
big_e said:
So we ask for two first rounders despite you, literally two hours earlier, saying:


We're not getting two first rounders and you know it. We laugh at Dodoro's trade requests but at least they have been consistent that they want to keep their players.

Whether his manager was being a dick or not, we've done ourselves a dis-service by telling him to leave. Though I still would prefer we kept him, I do get the currency/rebuild argument. But that has to work for us. And if all we get is a pick in the 20s, then I don't think that's a win for us.
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It does appear that something has gone wrong at some level for North and Brown to be where the media reports and Rama suggest they are. The comparison between what GWS might get for Cameron and what we might get for Brown appears to be stark. Statistically, at least Brown is no that far behind Cameron in terms of output and has enjoyed the benefit of playing with an elite midfield. Cameron is 27 and has averaged 12.4 disposals and 2.5 goals per game. BBB is also 27 and has averaged 10.6 disposals and 2.1 goals per game. It just doesn't feel right that one can be worth two first-round picks and the other a single second-rounder.

I doubt we will ever hear the true or full-story but it would be nice to understand why the club went cold on Brown.
 
Thing is, if there was a personal falling out between Brown/Rama and club that has made him untenable, the club can't exactly make that public.

Unfortunately it's human nature to only trust a process or approach if you agree with it or immediately see the benefit. The club really needs supporters to trust it more than ever right now.
 
7577969923 said:
It does appear that something has gone wrong at some level for North and Brown to be where the media reports and Rama suggest they are. The comparison between what GWS might get for Cameron and what we might get for Brown appears to be stark. Statistically, at least Brown is no that far behind Cameron in terms of output and has enjoyed the benefit of playing with an elite midfield. Cameron is 27 and has averaged 12.4 disposals and 2.5 goals per game. BBB is also 27 and has averaged 10.6 disposals and 2.1 goals per game. It just doesn't feel right that one can be worth two first-round picks and the other a single second-rounder.

I doubt we will ever hear the true or full-story but it would be nice to understand why the club went cold on Brown.
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There may not be anything further.... the simple truth is that the majority of the AFL clubs or supporters rate Cameron a lot higher than brown. Brown isn't overly rated outside of north walls


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Thewlis Dish said:
Thing is, if there was a personal falling out between Brown/Rama and club that has made him untenable, the club can't exactly make that public.

Unfortunately it's human nature to only trust a process or approach if you agree with it or immediately see the benefit. The club really needs supporters to trust it more than ever right now.
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Definitely willing to give Brady, Clayton et al the benefit of the doubt. There is some real experience and track record in that team. The Brown fallout is perplexing and disappointing though.
 

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New_Roo said:
There may not be anything further.... the simple truth is that the majority of the AFL clubs or supporters rate Cameron a lot higher than brown. Brown isn't overly rated outside of north walls


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I can see why they rate Cameron higher but I just am a bit bewildered at the distance of the perception gap between the two. I think at least some part is attributable to most of the media largely ignoring North and simultaneously holding the contradictory positions of not rating our list at all and downplaying any level of success we have had.
 
Am I the only one baffled by the notion that we’ve shafted any chance of a decent return on a Brown trade simply because we’re looking to trade him for the right deal?

Literally everyone in the football world agrees that we’re at the beginning of a full rebuild.

Why do players only have value on the market when they elect to leave a club and not the other way round?

Why wouldn’t a rebuilding club seek to trade players that hold more on field value to a higher positioned team than to their own?

Again, I’m not getting into the back story of how we got to this point, but the accepted reality of us now having no right to expect an equitable return on this is ludicrous to me.
 
Snake_Baker said:
There should be an independent board of former players appointed by the AFL who settle the trade value of free agents, based upon player history & contract offer.

In this instance something like St Kilda's pick 14 going to the Crows with Adelaide's pick 44 going to StKilda if they do not match.

If the uncontracted player still wants to leave then they can go to that draft.

Problem fixed.
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That is great idea mate, that would benefit everyone & be fair
 
SMaturin said:
Am I the only one baffled by the notion that we’ve shafted any chance of a decent return on a Brown trade simply because we’re looking to trade him for the right deal?

Literally everyone in the football world agrees that we’re at the beginning of a full rebuild.

Why do players only have value on the market when they elect to leave a club and not the other way round?

Why wouldn’t a rebuilding club seek to trade players that hold more on field value to a higher positioned team than to their own?

Again, I’m not getting into the back story of how we got to this point, but the accepted reality of us now having no right to expect an equitable return on this is ludicrous to me.
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I’m a little perplexed as to why his value his dropped so much, just because of the way it has panned as well.

If I decide to sell my house, does it dramatically drop in value because I chose to sell it, or do I need someone to approach me to get full value? We are clearly in rebuild mode and you need to give up an asset to help that progress.

Regardless of what the club says or does, he is still the same player. I can comprehend it dropping a little with what has gone on, but him being worth a pick in the 20’s compared to Cameron being worth 2 first rounders is insane.


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big_e said:
So we ask for two first rounders despite you, literally two hours earlier, saying:


We're not getting two first rounders and you know it. We laugh at Dodoro's trade requests but at least they have been consistent that they want to keep their players.

Whether his manager was being a dick or not, we've done ourselves a dis-service by telling him to leave. Though I still would prefer we kept him, I do get the currency/rebuild argument. But that has to work for us. And if all we get is a pick in the 20s, then I don't think that's a win for us.
Click to expand...

Generally that’s how negotiations work, you ask for more then you expect, rival clubs offer less then they expect - you meet in the middle. We start at 2 firsts, they start at a third, we meet somewhere around a late first/two seconds. Which is right about what he is worth.

I disagree that we have done ourselves a disservice given it’s a decision our list management/footy department have made. They are far closer to the detail of the Brown situation then bigfooty.

I get you’re sour about losing Brown, he’s been a good clubman, but remove your Brown Hat, and its pretty easy to see how he doesn’t fit into the strategy moving forward.
 
There's a lot of people here basing their opinion on the fact that the club should have pretended that BB remains a highly valued, required player.

Given what Rama put into the public domain, it requires an infeasible amount of stupidity on the part of all the other clubs to support the idea that we can bluff our way through trade negotiations.

We haven't destroyed his trade value, it will be what the market offers.
 
7577969923 said:
I can see why they rate Cameron higher but I just am a bit bewildered at the distance of the perception gap between the two. I think at least some part is attributable to most of the media largely ignoring North and simultaneously holding the contradictory positions of not rating our list at all and downplaying any level of success we have had.
Click to expand...

I agree it's not as big a gulf as what's reported. Two first rders is dreaming for JC, I'd say a high first and low first mid teens for brown


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Flawed Genius said:
Sam Skinner = The Uncle
Click to expand...
Sam Skinner = The Fore
 
LuvtheKangas said:
We haven't destroyed his trade value, it will be what the market offers.
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I’ve brought it up on this thread before, but what we finally get won’t be due to any market value.

Brown will most likely nominate a club. At that point there is no market, only one participant. What we get will be what we manage to negotiate with that club.

If this was a market-value situation we’d get the highest of what any club was willing to pay (“market value”). Unfortunately with the way trades have evolved with nominated clubs, what other clubs may or may not be willing to offer has no bearing at all on the final outcome.

It won’t be market value, just whatever Brady can negotiate.
 
What is the North Melbourne fan opinion/perspective on Sean Higgins. Is he an expendable asset to help rebuild, a required player that shouldn’t be traded, cooked and desperate to get off the books? What’s the deal?
 
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