List Mgmt. 2020 Trade and List Management Thread II

[Star]

Daniel Pratt or Dish?

Or Liam Ryan as line coach (forwards)

 

[shimaburnsgrieg]

I’m supportive of the list cuts, I’m supportive of the turnover in coaching staff, I’m puzzled by the handling of the Brown situation, I’m confused with the reports on Higgins.
And I’m really unhappy with the messaging from the club.

Why the confusion and unhappiness?

The messaging is clear from the club.

We are going through a rebuild on and off the field after years of poor standards, poor results and poor culture.

You say you support the turnover that is happening so I'm not sure what you are confused about.

Brown - we have done to death on here re contract negotiations, his performance and opportunities to trade. It is not appropriate for the club to comment further on this as negotiations are underway/being finalised. Do successful clubs give running commentary on players they are seeking to move on?

On the older players like Higgo - again the club has been clear - we won't shop them if contracted but if they want to go and something can be organised re comp for us then that can happen. Higgo looks like the one who may want to move.

We have to move the 5 vets on over the next 3 years and we don't want them all going in one year - Higgo - 2020; JZ - 2021; Cunners/Taz - 2022; Goldie - 2023 - allows us to keep some experience around through the rebuild. Again - this is very good list management planning - something we haven't done for 20 years.

On the player agents - meh - they will return to crawl up Brady's backside as soon as they see us turning the corner. They are the last cohort you should be worrying about.

The club is doing a great - and very long overdue - job re this restructuring.

The direction and messaging from the club is clear and consistent - supporters need to stop whining and start getting behind the club.

 

[Snake_Baker]

Why the confusion and unhappiness?

The messaging is clear from the club.

We are going through a rebuild on and off the field after years of poor standards, poor results and poor culture.

Can you provide a link to support this?

 

[LuvtheKangas]

Say what?

Let's put it this way, if Shaw's tactics weren't about the future, then there's a conspiracy at play to bring down the NMFC.

That doesn't mean that I am in full support of what's going on with the list massacre and revelations that he is now in over his head!!!!



No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no no.....................the onus is on YOU to inform me as to how this IS a good thing moving forward.

Throwaway lines and cliches will NOT suffice mate.

SHOW ME that you're not just ANOTHER frustrated supporter running the "change for it's own sake" mantra based upon NOTHING?!

Really? Is that all you've got?

It's categorically not "change for it's own sake". It's change for the sake of getting out of two decades of mediocrity. How is that not obvious to you? Sure, we can argue at the margin in relation to the 11 cut players and the Brown, Higgins and Polec situations (each of which is yet to play out), but the bottom line is we have cut players and coaches who won't be missed when they're gone. This is change for a positive sake.

Shaw's tactics were about the future. Clearly. There's no conspiracy at play to bring down the NMFC. FFS.

You need to steer clear of throwaway lines and cliches - they will NOT suffice.

 

[CharlieMortdecai]

Say what?

Let's put it this way, if Shaw's tactics weren't about the future, then there's a conspiracy at play to bring down the NMFC.

That doesn't mean that I am in full support of what's going on with the list massacre and revelations that he is now in over his head!!!!



No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no no.....................the onus is on YOU to inform me as to how this IS a good thing moving forward.

Throwaway lines and cliches will NOT suffice mate.

SHOW ME that you're not just ANOTHER frustrated supporter running the "change for it's own sake" mantra based upon NOTHING?!

Why would anyone engage with you? You decry everything in vague and emotional terms, with no specifics about why you are actually so upset, let alone any of your much (self) vaunted analysis and footy IQ.
Before anyone has even responded you are halfway to dismissing it as "throwaway", "cliched" and "based on nothing".
If someone does take the time to respond to you, you refuse to engage in any critical analysis of their arguments instead choosing to paint them as infantile" and the product of some sort of pop psychology wank of the moment you've been sucked into.
I think the onus is actually on you to explain what exactly your gripe is in specific terms.

 

[Snake_Baker]

Really? Is that all you've got?

LOL.

You couldn't rationalize your position, and now this is just going to be an infantile exercise in reverse psychology is it?

My stated position is that I don't know what the **** they is doing, and where they are going with this to the level that this justifies blind support, as well as the destruction of the careers of loyal and serviceable footballers.

Your lack of reasoning to support your position can only indicate that you are indeed clueless and smack bang in the middle of the "change for it's own sake" posse.

Don't waste my time like this again.

 

[the rooboy]

Egg from Richmond would be a nice cheap get has talent and would be a great HB with abit of run.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

 

[buttox]

I look at the 11 players delisted.
Im comfortable we can get better players through the draft and FA.
Brown Polec and Higgins are different. They all produce more on field than the draft picks we get for them will produce.
Higgins has one year left. I can understand the club getting some value from him.
I dont know enough about the Polec/Brown decisions to comment. Seems a waste, but like i said, I dont know much about it.

 

[Passmore]

Why the confusion and unhappiness?

The messaging is clear from the club.

We are going through a rebuild on and off the field after years of poor standards, poor results and poor culture.

You say you support the turnover that is happening so I'm not sure what you are confused about.

Brown - we have done to death on here re contract negotiations, his performance and opportunities to trade. It is not appropriate for the club to comment further on this as negotiations are underway/being finalised. Do successful clubs give running commentary on players they are seeking to move on?

On the older players like Higgo - again the club has been clear - we won't shop them if contracted but if they want to go and something can be organised re comp for us then that can happen. Higgo looks like the one who may want to move.

We have to move the 5 vets on over the next 3 years and we don't want them all going in one year - Higgo - 2020; JZ - 2021; Cunners/Taz - 2022; Goldie - 2023 - allows us to keep some experience around through the rebuild. Again - this is very good list management planning - something we haven't done for 20 years.

On the player agents - meh - they will return to crawl up Brady's backside as soon as they see us turning the corner. They are the last cohort you should be worrying about.

The club is doing a great - and very long overdue - job re this restructuring.

The direction and messaging from the club is clear and consistent - supporters need to stop whining and start getting behind the club.

I don't think what we're doing could be any clearer. FFS, the bloke in charge has actually stated it in an interview with Mark Robinson.

****ed if I know if it works, there's no guarantees in life. I can tell you what hasn't worked.....what we've done since late 2016.

Sent from my SM-A908B using Tapatalk

 

[Psicosis]

As of 4th October:

In:
- Aiden Corr
- John Blakey

Out:
- Paul Ahern
- Majak Daw
- Jasper Pittard
- Jamie Macmillan
- Lachlan Hosie
- Joel Crocker
- Marley Williams
- Sam Durdin
- Mason Wood
- Ben Jacobs
- Tom Murphy
- Jared Moore
- Jade Rawlings
- Heath Scotland

Cutting mediocre, bringing in quality.

Can’t wait to see what is next.

 

[Reagan Smash]

It’s going to be a looooooong off season this year

 

[CharlieMortdecai]

the destruction of the careers of loyal and serviceable footballers

This seems to be the crux of it. I hate to use an infantile, throwaway cliche, which probably shows my psychological shortcomings but at the end of the day no one player is bigger than the club.
And it goes with the territory! Surely all of them embarked on a career as a footballer with their ****ing eyes open.
I also highly doubt the club has cut them loose with no support as they transition to a new stage in their life and career.

 

[Dodecahedron]

LOL.

You couldn't rationalize your position, and now this is just going to be an infantile exercise in reverse psychology is it?

My stated position is that I don't know what the fu** they is doing, and where they are going with this to the level that this justifies blind support, as well as the destruction of the careers of loyal and serviceable footballers.

Your lack of reasoning to support your position can only indicate that you are indeed clueless and smack bang in the middle of the "change for it's own sake" posse.

Don't waste my time like this again.

Snake, the only problem I have with “holding the line” is, what data or evidence do we have that doing the same thing again would produce different results?

At least they’re having a hard crack at step one by clearing out known knowns (aka sh1te). Bringing in unknown knowns (based on stats and data from scouts) is what they’ll do in the draft and with trades. It’s hard to produce data about the future. We don’t yet know who they’re going to draft.
You’re assuming that they’ll bring in unknown unknowns.

 

[Uber Roo]

LOL.

You couldn't rationalize your position, and now this is just going to be an infantile exercise in reverse psychology is it?

My stated position is that I don't know what the fu** they is doing, and where they are going with this to the level that this justifies blind support, as well as the destruction of the careers of loyal and serviceable footballers.

Your lack of reasoning to support your position can only indicate that you are indeed clueless and smack bang in the middle of the "change for it's own sake" posse.

Don't waste my time like this again.

Snake,
Let me ask
A bit of a sliding doors moment
In hindsight , would you have preferred we had offered Gubby Allan a Full time position a couple of years ago, rather than a short term consultancy?
The guy seems to get deals done ( both with us and especially St Kilda )
I’d say 3 years ago the North and Saints lists were not miles apart, now they’re playing finals, and could go deep with a bit of luck. We are....where we are.
For the record, I’m in the Brady camp ( not sure why, maybe blind faith, maybe I think he’s about to produce some aces come trade/ draft time), but nothing is certain.
But a small part of me, can’t help thinking, where we’d be today, if we kept Allan on.
Interested to here your thoughts


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[Psicosis]

destruction of the careers of loyal and serviceable footballers.

Get the f*** over it. It’s a business.

 

[Snake_Baker]

This seems to be the crux of it. I hate to use an infantile, throwaway cliche, which probably shows my psychological shortcomings but at the end of the day no one player is bigger than the club.
And it goes with the territory! Surely all of them embarked on a career as a footballer with their ******* eyes open.
I also highly doubt the club has cut them loose with no support as they transition to a new stage in their life and career.

This is just cringeworthy.

Why not just do the intellectually honest thing and admit that you're frustrated, don't really know how to fix anything, and your position is based upon blind faith and hope?

I know I'd respect your credibility a hell of a lot more.

There's not a single poster who has tabled any rational basis to support what is going on. Not one.

Sure, they can all point and complain, and utilise whipping boys to exorcise their frustrations, but not a single one fo them has so far managed to reasonably express why this is the best option based upon x, x and x. Of course, the intellectually deceitful can all come back down the track and make disingenuous claims that they were "right", or alternatively they will just go missing or show up with a new user account.

All I can see is frustration resulting in blind faith & hope supported by zero logic. I hope that someone can eventually come along and make an attempt at adequately reasoning this position.

 

[Masked Avenger]

As of 4th October:

In:
- Aiden Corr
- John Blakey

Out:
- Paul Ahern
- Majak Daw
- Jasper Pittard
- Jamie Macmillan
- Lachlan Hosie
- Joel Crocker
- Marley Williams
- Sam Durdin
- Mason Wood
- Ben Jacobs
- Tom Murphy
- Jared Moore
- Jade Rawlings
- Heath Scotland

Cutting mediocre, bringing in quality.

Can’t wait to see what is next.

Reports are saying that Turner has a contract in front of him but the Club's waiting on list sizes before deciding to put an offer in front of Will Walker. If that's what you're referring to when you say you can't wait for what's next, I don't share your enthusiasm.

 

[Snake_Baker]

Snake, the only problem I have with “holding the line” is, what data or evidence do we have that doing the same thing again would produce different results?

Go back to the 2nd half of 2019, factor the development of Simpkin, LDU, Scott and others, and take away the outright sabotaging of Higgins, Polec, Pittard, Williams, etc..

The logical outcome is finals in 2020.

I have no doubt whatsoever that players and the team were sabotaged this year, and whether this turns out to be good or bad still remains to be seen.

 

[Snake_Baker]

In hindsight , would you have preferred we had offered Gubby Allan a Full time position a couple of years ago, rather than a short term consultancy?

I don't know enough about the man to give you an honest answer.

The best talent is pretty self evident to experienced footy watchers, the true science of this field comes forward when that pool is exhausted.

 

[Souup]

Get the f*** over it. It’s a business.

Makes no sense whatsoever to lament the cuts made because of 'loyalty' and them being 'serviceable'. This is the backwards attitude that has gotten us into the deepest depth of the irrelevancy pool.

There is legitimately no other successful company in the world that would argue keeping someone on because they're 'loyal and serviceable' despite the fact their lack of performance has led to the company becoming irrelevant and a laughing stock in their industry.

 

[Psicosis]

Reports are saying that Turner has a contract in front of him but the Club's waiting on list sizes before deciding to put an offer in front of Will Walker. If that's what you're referring to when you say you can't wait for what's next, I don't share your enthusiasm.

The excitement in my post is more in reference to what we bring in (players, coaches, picks) versus what we get rid of. At the end of the day we don’t know, no one saw Corr coming, no one saw Blakey coming, so that is exciting to me.

The “worst case” speculation going on here (amplified by one posters return from the gutter) is just exhausting. I’d rather focus on the positives, then who the club decides are not worth keeping.

 

[Snake_Baker]

Makes no sense whatsoever to lament the cuts made because of 'loyalty' and them being 'serviceable'. This is the backwards attitude that has gotten into the deepest depth of the irrelevancy pool.

There is legitimately no other industry in the world that would argue keeping someone on because they're 'loyal and serviceable' despite the fact their lack of performance has led to the company becoming irrelevant and a laughing stock in their industry.

If you're going to knife some soldiers then there needs to be a legitimate reason, and you can't table anything other than a hunch based upon your personal frustrations to support your position.

Psicosis posts 80% drivel, and you're not going far if he's your only choice as a bedfellow.

 

[Carey4life]

This is just cringeworthy.

Why not just do the intellectually honest thing and admit that you're frustrated, don't really know how to fix anything, and your position is based upon blind faith and hope?

I know I'd respect your credibility a hell of a lot more.

There's not a single poster who has tabled any rational basis to support what is going on. Not one.

Sure, they can all point and complain, and utilise whipping oys, but not a single one fo them has so far managed to reasonably express why this is the best option based upon x, x and x. Of course, the intellectually deceitful can all come back down the track and make disingenuous claims that they were "right", or alternatively they will just go missing or so up with a new user account.

All I can see is frustration resulting in blind faith & hope supported by zero logic. I hope that someone can eventually come along and make an attempt at adequately reasoning this position.

You haven't got any visibility on the recruiting strategy yet, beyond Blakey and perhaps Corr.

If support for Brady is just 'blind faith and hope', it would seem your position is based on frustration and fear.

Don't be scared snake. Take a deep breath and wait for the facts before sounding the alarm.

 

[LuvtheKangas]

My stated position is that I don't know what the fu** they is doing

Correct.

Some of us have an inkling, though.

 

[Snake_Baker]

Reserving judgement until after recruiting isn't blind faith.

Okay, what are these gaps then, and what will they facilitate?

You haven't got any visibility on the recruiting strategy yet, beyond Blakey and perhaps Corr.

I have already stated this.

No one has delivered anything remotely respectable to support why this is a good thing either.

If support for Brady is just 'blind faith and hope', it would seem your position is based on frustration and fear.

Don't be scared snake. Take a deep breath and wait for the facts before sounding the alarm.

You have basically just placed your stamp of approval on my 'blind faith and hope' reasoning.

Keep the ra ra bull shit for the plebs. They lap it up.