2020 Trade & List Management discussion

Remove this Banner Ad

skittlebrew

Club Legend
Feb 8, 2013
1,737
2,094
AFL Club
Adelaide
My two cents, but does anyone else think that, given the lack of a TAC competition, let alone a national championship, and apparently no consensus in terms of who should go No 2 in the draft (it seems that 4-5 names have been thrown up), that it would be fool hardy to ship Brad Crouch off?

I get the logic if it was this time last year, when you had two clear standouts in Rowell and Anderson (let alone 2018 when you had Walsh, Rankine, King etc), but this year we simply dont have that "exposed form".

In the circumstances, I would have thought the best strategy is simply to sign Brad to a 3 year, 600k odd deal (which I honestly think he would accept). He is a proven commodity and (when not injured) really is the backbone of that midfield. Also remember Rory will retire in the next year or two, so whoever we draft next year (when, most likely, we will have a pick between 1-5 again) will still get time in the centre.

Importantly as well, I think we are slowly improving the culture at the club, which in turn will help us retain players. To ship off a player that clearly wants to be here, in favour of a kid who is, at best, a 50:50 proposition of being a "star", let alone wants to be based in SA, is very dangerous in that regard.
Pick 2 is amazing even in a weak draft year. I'm sure we could easily swap it for someone else's first rounder next year if we don't rate this years crop.

If we keep Brad his 'value' ends in a few years and given his injury history we likely to not even get 3 full years of good performances. If we take pick 2 we could get 10 years or more from that player. We could even trade the player for more picks when they're in their late twenties. Further parlaying on the value.

The 'clearly wants to be here' narrative has only come about after no one wants to pay him the big bucks last year. Also good PR for him when if he is traded this year, pretending he was/is loyal.

Brad wants more than $600k, hence the $1m asking price last year. He knew he wouldn't get that but obviously wanted $800K plus. He is not accepting $600k from us unless he cannot get materially more elsewhere. Likely wants more than 3 years too.
 

GrommoT

Norm Smith Medallist
Aug 7, 2015
7,819
12,052
AFL Club
Adelaide
...
To be blunt- if Brad has reasons why he doesn’t want to leave, he would have signed already. ...
I think this would be true if both Brad and the Club wants Brad to stay as the only choice.

I suspect the Club is pretty keen for pick 2 so has put a contract on the table for Brad that is a bit on the pedestrian side (god I hope we're not low-balling him too much) so Brad has to look at what else he can get.

When Brad gets offered the best deal from another club, we can then see whether that is likely to net us tier 1 compo, see if it's worth trading if not or match the offer and hope Brad decides to stay.
 

LoBu

All Australian
Dec 4, 2015
804
648
AFL Club
Adelaide
Isn't the Chairman position honorary? Or am I mistaken?

I would have thought that being the case the Chairman would need to be based in SA surely?
This I don't know, I was basing that on the fact that the Port Chairman lives in Sydney, I do understand we have a different structure, but not sure how this impacts on specific living conditions.



On Pixel 3 using BigFooty.com mobile app
 

(Log in to remove this ad.)

Mutineer

Premium Platinum
Aug 9, 2019
9,552
16,856
Victorian Central Highlands
AFL Club
Adelaide
Other Teams
The mighty Panthers, GWV Rebels, Be
If we keep Brad his 'value' ends in a few years and given his injury history we likely to not even get 3 full years of good performances. If we take pick 2 we could get 10 years or more from that player. We could even trade the player for more picks when they're in their late twenties. Further parlaying on the value.

The 'clearly wants to be here' narrative has only come about after no one wants to pay him the big bucks last year. Also good PR for him when if he is traded this year, pretending he was/is loyal.
Pretending he was/is loyal.....What a load of bunkum...

He has very good personal reasons for preferring to stay in Adelaide if it's feasibly possible....You seem to forget he's stuck with us through thick and thin since 2011's mini draft even when we mismanaged his groin injury which cost him dearly career wise.

And unless we're taking 2 SA boys if it eventuates we get pick 1 & 2 there is no iron clad guarantee interstate lads won't do a Jack Gunston, Jake Lever or McNuggets on us.
 

Dewy006

President: Will Hamill Fan Club
Oct 20, 2007
2,638
4,878
Perf
AFL Club
Adelaide
Other Teams
New York Jets, Toronto Raptors
There was talk that if the AFL were to cut list sizes that perhaps clubs could pay out existing contracts and these not be included in the cap, not sure where that’s at and how they would police it but could be a little bit of a “Get out of Jail Free” card if it were to happen.
 

Bearded Clam

Premium Platinum
Oct 13, 2017
6,606
9,776
AFL Club
Adelaide
Other Teams
Liverpool, Glenelg,
I think this would be true if both Brad and the Club wants Brad to stay as the only choice.

I suspect the Club is pretty keen for pick 2 so has put a contract on the table for Brad that is a bit on the pedestrian side (god I hope we're not low-balling him too much) so Brad has to look at what else he can get.

When Brad gets offered the best deal from another club, we can then see whether that is likely to net us tier 1 compo, see if it's worth trading if not or match the offer and hope Brad decides to stay.
The club would have a deal on the table that is just on the verge of being the type of deal required to earn the club pick 2 compo if brad was to leave..

Somewhere in the vicinity of $650-750k a year for 3-4 years.

If someone offers a bit more than that.. then Brad will go and the club will get pick 2..

If offers come in lower than that then Brad will stay and the club will happily re-sign him for somewhere in that $650-$750k a year for 3-4 years range.

Brads not gonna bother packing up his and his partners entire lives and moving somewhere else for LESS money than he can get at the crows.

It would be utterly ridiculous for him to do so... even if it was to a “contending club”.. and what the fu** is that anyway?.. you could choose just about any club you think is contending and still not get anywhere near a premiership.

GWS are aparently a comtending club in their premiership window.. how are they travelling at the moment?..

Brad could go to Geelong next year and Geelong could step off a cliff.. stranger things have happened, nothing in life is a certainty.
 

ad victoriam

Norm Smith Medallist
Jan 2, 2016
8,674
7,516
Barossa
AFL Club
Adelaide
Other Teams
CDFC
Was 50/50 before, but now I'm all for keeping Brouch! Remember how we all said that we needed to be ruthless like Hawthorn and ship off their key players (i.e. Lewis, Hodge, Mitchell)? They're an absolute shambles of a club now with a list on par/worse than North Melbourne.

Keeping Brouch (when he wants to stay, loves the club/Adelaide) helps creates a culture which other players will want to be part of. This is how you attract others to the club!

Now the key issue is now, what do we do with pick 1 (Hollands or Thilt) and how to deal with the abundance of players that need midfield minutes (Jones/McHerny/Hately?)?.
In agreeance Keeping BCrouch will be better for the Crows in the long term, Culture and Protecting the Kids, Just look at Cripps no protection. and your example with the Hawks no protection for the younger Kids.
I can Also See less midfield time for Sloane with Mchenry/Hately taking the role he playing and Sloane playing that Half Forward role,
Jones to me plays best Outside, Wing, Half Forward, only Short Burst in the Midfield,
If we get Hollands he will come into the side late in the year, Only due to the Crows being caucious about his recovery,
(Yes While I would love to get Thilthope, I think the Crows need Holland more) Maybe we get Luckly and trade down or Thilthope drops to our GWS pick.

And end of the day BCrouch, Hollands (188) and Hately(190) inproves the size of the midfield,
The Crows currently have a Small Midfield, At this time our biggest mid is BCrouch at 186.
 

skittlebrew

Club Legend
Feb 8, 2013
1,737
2,094
AFL Club
Adelaide
Pretending he was/is loyal.....What a load of bunkum...

He has very good personal reasons for preferring to stay in Adelaide if it's feasibly possible....You seem to forget he's stuck with us through thick and thin since 2011's mini draft even when we mismanaged his groin injury which cost him dearly career wise.

And unless we're taking 2 SA boys if it eventuates we get pick 1 & 2 there is no iron clad guarantee interstate lads won't do a Jack Gunston, Jake Lever or McNuggets on us.
So are you saying last year he didn't offer his services to Gold Coast for $1m per year?

Or is loyalty a year by year basis for you and despite not being loyal last year he can be considered 'loyal' this year?
 

ad victoriam

Norm Smith Medallist
Jan 2, 2016
8,674
7,516
Barossa
AFL Club
Adelaide
Other Teams
CDFC
So are you saying last year he didn't offer his services to Gold Coast for $1m per year?

Or is loyalty a year by year basis for you and despite not being loyal last year he can be considered 'loyal' this year?
Believe it was his manager test the water, to up the stakes with talks with the Crows,
It what every Player manager worth his salt does, Name a Top player who manager has not tested the waters.
Only with Brad being in a 2 horse town its big news, and sells more papers or is it get more clicks these days.
 

Mutineer

Premium Platinum
Aug 9, 2019
9,552
16,856
Victorian Central Highlands
AFL Club
Adelaide
Other Teams
The mighty Panthers, GWV Rebels, Be
So are you saying last year he didn't offer his services to Gold Coast for $1m per year?

Or is loyalty a year by year basis for you and despite not being loyal last year he can be considered 'loyal' this year?
Any player manager worth their salt is going to see if there's interest from other clubs when their player is a year out from free agency, it's the AFL way in this age.

For all we know Gary Winter probably shopped him around to other club's as well to see if there was interest but they had the good sense and professionalism not to go public like Craig Cameron.
 

skittlebrew

Club Legend
Feb 8, 2013
1,737
2,094
AFL Club
Adelaide
If you're truly loyal would you not just approach the club first and talk to them? Ball park terms and money.

Nah, shops himself around for top dollar a year in advance.

His manager acts on his behalf, he wouldn't have done so without Brads greenlight. Don't act as if his manager went rouge.

Brad is loyal, to the mighty dollar that is.
 

Rory Walkerfield

Norm Smith Medallist
Oct 6, 2012
8,880
15,893
AFL Club
Adelaide
If you're truly loyal would you not just approach the club first and talk to them? Ball park terms and money.

Nah, shops himself around for top dollar a year in advance.

His manager acts on his behalf, he wouldn't have done so without Brads greenlight. Don't act as if his manager went rouge.

Brad is loyal, to the mighty dollar that is.
I‘ve become used to players making hay while the sun shines. The lever and Dangerfield moves hit deep with me whereas now I’m a bit meh with it. This is their job and they have a very limited time horizon to build a life long nest egg.

having said that, while I’m now a bit meh about moves, I’m also increasingly meh with respect to my passion for the game.
 

hey shorty

TheBrownDog
Jun 15, 2005
55,233
45,877
Where the Hills have eyes
AFL Club
Adelaide
Other Teams
AUFC, Everton, Sturt
If you're truly loyal would you not just approach the club first and talk to them? Ball park terms and money.

Nah, shops himself around for top dollar a year in advance.

His manager acts on his behalf, he wouldn't have done so without Brads greenlight. Don't act as if his manager went rouge.

Brad is loyal, to the mighty dollar that is.
There was an offer on the table and the club took it off, tell me how that's Brad not being loyal ??

If you heard his interview yesterday there's no way you'd question it.
 

(Log in to remove this ad.)

skittlebrew

Club Legend
Feb 8, 2013
1,737
2,094
AFL Club
Adelaide
There was an offer on the table and the club took it off, tell me how that's Brad not being loyal ??
Not following you. There was an offer and Brad didn't accept? If anything it implies he is not loyal...

If you heard his interview yesterday there's no way you'd question it.
I heard some of the interview yesterday but not all. He said exactly what I expected him to. Pretending he wants to stay and play the victim if he goes elsewhere.

Regradless, actions speak louder than words, and hitting up another club for a million bucks doesn't scream 'loyalty' in my book.
 

Big Dub

Debutant
Feb 8, 2018
110
150
AFL Club
Adelaide
In agreeance Keeping BCrouch will be better for the Crows in the long term, Culture and Protecting the Kids, Just look at Cripps no protection. and your example with the Hawks no protection for the younger Kids.
I can Also See less midfield time for Sloane with Mchenry/Hately taking the role he playing and Sloane playing that Half Forward role,
Jones to me plays best Outside, Wing, Half Forward, only Short Burst in the Midfield,
If we get Hollands he will come into the side late in the year, Only due to the Crows being caucious about his recovery,
(Yes While I would love to get Thilthope, I think the Crows need Holland more) Maybe we get Luckly and trade down or Thilthope drops to our GWS pick.

And end of the day BCrouch, Hollands (188) and Hately(190) inproves the size of the midfield,
The Crows currently have a Small Midfield, At this time our biggest mid is BCrouch at 186.
Brad doesn't help us as much as pick 2 in the long term (ie in 4 years).

Carlton have Cripps, Curnow, Marc Murphy and Walsh (developing) as protection for new kids, which is pretty light on. Crows have Matt, Sloane, Laird, Smith, Keays, Milera, Seedsman, Schoenberg (young, but has mongrel), Jones (developing) plus whoever we pick up in trades. We don't need Brad for protection. The culture bit I get, but having a culture where we are open and honest with our players is more important than a culture where we keep people on when it is not in the interests of the Club. Helping players get a soft landing when them staying is no longer in the Club's interests is also appreciated.

Our midfield needs one big body, but it's not Brad. We need speed, but that's not Brad either. He is likely more help than pick 20 (and probably most picks we could trade him for), which is when we should keep him.
 

BRL121

Premiership Player
Jun 21, 2014
4,443
4,762
AFL Club
Adelaide
If you're truly loyal would you not just approach the club first and talk to them? Ball park terms and money.

Nah, shops himself around for top dollar a year in advance.

His manager acts on his behalf, he wouldn't have done so without Brads greenlight. Don't act as if his manager went rouge.

Brad is loyal, to the mighty dollar that is.
His manager's into cross-dressing? ;)
 

BRL121

Premiership Player
Jun 21, 2014
4,443
4,762
AFL Club
Adelaide
The two arguments on Brouch have been well covered here. However, the main problem as I see it is the third option: Brouch leaves for a significantly worse pick than 2. The main worry for me is that the AFC themselves have clearly implied that this is a live option. There is no way that they are taking 2 or keeping Brouch, unless they are being sneaky.
 

Thetrader15

Brownlow Medallist
Oct 16, 2015
18,733
21,583
AFL Club
Adelaide
That guy died 3 years ago. Think about it for a second...3 years and we haven't been able to find someone with the adequate skill set to take over from Chapman.
And Chappy has been in charge for how long? That's pretty incompetent 'succession planning' if you only have one person lined up after 10 years in charge.
 

Thetrader15

Brownlow Medallist
Oct 16, 2015
18,733
21,583
AFL Club
Adelaide
Isn't the Chairman position honorary? Or am I mistaken?

I would have thought that being the case the Chairman would need to be based in SA surely?
You're right, it would need to be based here.

Since the role is a full time one, it's bigger than that of BHP and CommBank, so it couldn't possibly be done outside of Adelaide.
 

Western Stand Warrior

Hall of Famer
Jul 27, 2004
35,096
21,232
Las Vegas
AFL Club
Adelaide
Other Teams
Norwood
I'm sure you have some level of experience too, but I've never been on a board or reported to a board that does not have a Chairman who is intimately and specifically directing strategy and the execution of this vision (never been on a board with a chairwoman).

I'm absolutely aware of the wave of criticism of Chapman's performance and direction, I think the strategy has been well documented, 2018 was thought to be an injury lead aberration, 2019 the reality, 2020 the rebuild. This is all directed from the board.

His anointed successor died, he has been looking for a replacement and has found one. It's been silly of him to say there was little talent around, there is heaps, you have the whole of Australia. If board members didn't want to take over, that's irrelevant.
He said the talent pool was thin, not that there was little talent, but it does appear to be a bit of an excuse to be honest.

so his comments that it needs to be someone who is into footy is spot on, because the pool of people able to run a multi million dollar company is probably high, but ones able to afford the time to earn an income AND run said business is probably less so.
 

MarcusP2

Norm Smith Medallist
Sep 21, 2009
8,895
6,251
AFL Club
Adelaide
Other Teams
Zona Cardinals, Yankees
He said the talent pool was thin, not that there was little talent, but it does appear to be a bit of an excuse to be honest.

so his comments that it needs to be someone who is into footy is spot on, because the pool of people able to run a multi million dollar company is probably high, but ones able to afford the time to earn an income AND run said business is probably less so.
The Chairperson doesn't run a multi million dollar company, usually. The CEO does.

Malcolm Broomhead is on the board of BHP and the Chair of Orica. Amazing that he manages to juggle both somehow.
 

hey shorty

TheBrownDog
Jun 15, 2005
55,233
45,877
Where the Hills have eyes
AFL Club
Adelaide
Other Teams
AUFC, Everton, Sturt
Not following you. There was an offer and Brad didn't accept? If anything it implies he is not loyal...



I heard some of the interview yesterday but not all. He said exactly what I expected him to. Pretending he wants to stay and play the victim if he goes elsewhere.

Regradless, actions speak louder than words, and hitting up another club for a million bucks doesn't scream 'loyalty' in my book.
Play the victim ?? Gee you're a pretty callous kind of a bloke.

The club took the offer away, why does that make Brad disloyal ?? He's allowed to assess his options.
 

hey shorty

TheBrownDog
Jun 15, 2005
55,233
45,877
Where the Hills have eyes
AFL Club
Adelaide
Other Teams
AUFC, Everton, Sturt
The two arguments on Brouch have been well covered here. However, the main problem as I see it is the third option: Brouch leaves for a significantly worse pick than 2. The main worry for me is that the AFC themselves have clearly implied that this is a live option. There is no way that they are taking 2 or keeping Brouch, unless they are being sneaky.
I don't think we'd do that. IMO he won't leave for a pick outside of the top 5, or a significant player.
 

GrommoT

Norm Smith Medallist
Aug 7, 2015
7,819
12,052
AFL Club
Adelaide
The club would have a deal on the table that is just on the verge of being the type of deal required to earn the club pick 2 compo if brad was to leave..
Somewhere in the vicinity of $650-750k a year for 3-4 years.
...
There's probably a good chance Brad would take this deal to stay so what's on offer from the Club right now is probably a bit below this - maybe it's those dollars but only for 3 years.
 

Top Bottom