2020 Trade & List Management discussion

[MRB37]

I thought it was Perryman, but it was Isaac Cumming who was from Broken Hill who i've seen mentioned with Tex a few times in the past as knowing each other. He's never really taken off for the Giants though, only 9 games in 3 years.

 

[Mutineer]

I thought it was Perryman, but it was Isaac Cumming who was from Broken Hill who i've seen mentioned with Tex a few times in the past as knowing each other. He's never really taken off for the Giants though, only 9 games in 3 years.

Only through lack of opportunities and it was pretty well documented we were looking closely at him in his draft year,,,has a lot of attributes we need speed and excellent disposal, more an outside player than a contested player and a definite upgrade on a few of our blokes that play a similar role. Someone will grab him if he becomes available. Hawthorn I'd think he could be of interest given Clarkson highly values foot skills and with the bonus of genuine pace he'll land somewhere.

 

[Thetrader15]

Only through lack of opportunities and it was pretty well documented we were looking closely at him in his draft year,,,has a lot of attributes we need speed and excellent disposal, more an outside player than a contested player and a definite upgrade on a few of our blokes that play a similar role. Someone will grab him if he becomes available. Hawthorn I'd think he could be of interest given Clarkson highly values foot skills and with the bonus of genuine pace he'll land somewhere.

Can he be the steak knives in our Playstation trade of Caldwell for Laird?

 

[calman]

To be honest I hadn't considered the PSD until now.

Yeah i'd be all for squeezing that leverage to potentially nab a few talent upgrades.

See carlton getting jack martin if done right
once you clear up cap space, you can even do it from 2nd or

Can we please stop talk of a Priority Pick, it does not happen any more, Gold Coast was a one off package to remedy the failings of the AFL in setting them up.


in regards to the start of the first round priority pick, this is carlton's record over the past six years, and we still did not receive a PP
One year of adelaide being last is not going to net pick 2
The gold coast PP was a made up as we go along to keep our golden child in QLD alive

since 2009, has been the only start of first round PP

You literally have to be as bad as carlton has been for the past 6 years, and then AFL might give you access to extra state league players


Getting an SA talent out of contract to come home via the PSD is an option once you clear out cap space ( like jack martin for carlton, get them on a long term average deal, but massively front load it, provided you finish in the bottom 3

 

[SaltPeter]

See carlton getting jack martin if done right
once you clear up cap space, you can even do it from 2nd or

Can we please stop talk of a Priority Pick, it does not happen any more, Gold Coast was a one off package to remedy the failings of the AFL in setting them up.


in regards to the start of the first round priority pick, this is carlton's record over the past six years, and we still did not receive a PP
One year of adelaide being last is not going to net pick 2
The gold coast PP was a made up as we go along to keep our golden child in QLD alive
View attachment 912224
since 2009, View attachment 912228 has been the only start of first round PP

You literally have to be as bad as carlton has been for the past 6 years, and then AFL might give you access to extra state league players


Getting an SA talent out of contract to come home via the PSD is an option once you clear out cap space ( like jack martin for carlton, get them on a long term average deal, but massively front load it, provided you finish in the bottom 3

Loading is irrelevant .. a team only has to match the total amount of money over the duration of the contract

 

[kulak]

This is potentially going to be the toughest off season for list management ever. With the likelihood of list sizes being cut and salary cap being reduced, clubs are going to be forced to get rid of players they would have liked to keep (both contracted and out of contract).

We’re in a better position than most as we don’t have the same level of talent to try and retain and also have salary cap space available. Not to mention our abundance of currency in this years draft. This gives us a bit of leverage in negotiations and can take advantage of some of the clubs who are backed into a corner.

The question is, who would you target?

Roo is on record that if we had matched Keath then someone else would have been forced out. Our cap is maxed.

Next year we will be paying first team salaries to multiple players who definitely will not be in our first team:

Walker
Jenkins
Gibbs
Seedsman

We might pick up a few more Stengle Frampton Crocker Keays types but it would be quite surprising if we are picking off genuine talent from elsewhere.

I will be delighted if we retain Doedee and Hamill.

 

[Peter Doherty]

Can we also stop talking about sweetheart deals with WB to not bid on Ugle-Hagan, the AFL watch all these things very closely, any sniff of dodgy dealings and you end up with sanctions - yet again!

My proposed trade involved us bidding at pick one, us getting bulldogs first rounder and bulldogs upgrading their next 2 picks after pick 1.

If we don't bid on TUH at pick #1, then they only have to come up with the points to match a bid at pick #2.

At pick #1, they need to come up with 2400 pts. At pick #2, they only need 2014. This is where the sweetheart deal comes in - effectively we have an additional 400pts on our side of the trade deal.

So in that scenario where we don't bid and Dogs only have to match pick 2, what else do we get besides their first rounder?

 

[1990crow]

See carlton getting jack martin if done right
once you clear up cap space, you can even do it from 2nd or

Can we please stop talk of a Priority Pick, it does not happen any more, Gold Coast was a one off package to remedy the failings of the AFL in setting them up.


in regards to the start of the first round priority pick, this is carlton's record over the past six years, and we still did not receive a PP
One year of adelaide being last is not going to net pick 2
The gold coast PP was a made up as we go along to keep our golden child in QLD alive
View attachment 912224
since 2009, View attachment 912228 has been the only start of first round PP

You literally have to be as bad as carlton has been for the past 6 years, and then AFL might give you access to extra state league players


Getting an SA talent out of contract to come home via the PSD is an option once you clear out cap space ( like jack martin for carlton, get them on a long term average deal, but massively front load it, provided you finish in the bottom 3

No hope of PP this year.
Finish two years in a row last with only one win and I would feel we would be entitled to ask.
Carlton didn't finish last two years in a row and won a few games at least in each of these 6 years.

 

[1990crow]

Can we please stop talk of a Priority Pick, it does not happen any more, Gold Coast was a one off package to remedy the failings of the AFL in setting them up.

Brad Crouch who we constantly bag on here is not getting Band 1, other clubs are not stupid, did you know they actually watch our games and see what we see? No club is giving him sufficient $ and years to fall into Band 1.

People have very inflated ideas on what players like Atkins and Laird are worth. You need to scrutinise trades and compo over the last say three years to see we aren't getting much for them.

Can we also stop talking about sweetheart deals with WB to not bid on Ugle-Hagan, the AFL watch all these things very closely, any sniff of dodgy dealings and you end up with sanctions - yet again!

Port supporter you are.

Brad will be band 1.

 

[Dudersaurus]

Loading is irrelevant .. a team only has to match the total amount of money over the duration of the contract

No, FA deals need to match exactly.

 

[SaltPeter]

No, FA deals need to match exactly.

No, I was sent this regard to an RFA query. Its irrelevant in a purely FA movement



In relation to your question below please refer to player rule 17.5 (m)

m) Where any Club enters into a Contract of Service with a Restricted Free Agent under Rule 17.5(g) or (i) (and for the avoidance of doubt, not in the case of a Contract of Service entered into under Rule 17.5(j) the Club may elect to allocate payments under the Contract of Service (including incentives) and any Additional Services agreement to the relevant Player evenly over the period of the contract(s) for Total Player Payment purposes, subject to the approval of the General Counsel. The Club must make any election to allocate payments under this Rule within 7 days of entry into the Contract of Service and immediately notify the AFL of the election. Any election by the Club to allocate payments under this Rule does not impact the time for actual payments to the Player, which must be in accordance with the contract(s).

For example if the player is offered 4m over 4 years in the structure of 800k, 1.2m, 800k, 1.2m the matching club could allocate evenly over the 4 years at 1m per season.

Hope that helps clarify.

Cheers,

Simon

​ Simon Murphy​ TPP Additional Services and Statistics Advisor​ AFL HOUSE | 140 Harbour Esplanade | Docklands VIC 3008​ GPO Box 1449 | Melbourne VIC 3001​ ​ Ph: (03) 9643 1793​ ,​ M: 0438 725 213​

 

[kulak]

Brad I thought we should have traded for whatever we could get last trade period, probably something in the 10-15 range

I think we get an end of first pick as compensation if he plays the full year uninjured, and end of second if he visibly struggles with injury/form. So be it.

Matt I would trade, again for whatever we can get. I think he gets about one late first round pick, ideally a 2021 first.

Thanks for everything. Gave it our best, nearly got there in 2017. But now it’s the end of the road. Time to go in a new direction for both us and them.

Wouldn’t be surprised to see Sloane with a new lease on life next year if he can focus on being inside mid 1A surrounded by a bunch of developing kids.

 

[SaltPeter]

Happy enough to be wrong, but that doesn't refer to matching. That basically says if we successfully sign a fa, we can restructure the deal once they've been signed (if agreed), as long as the total amount is paid.

AFAIK, and that is debatable, matching has to be identical. Sure that could potentially be restructured after the fact, but if the matching team can't match a large up-front payment due to salary cap space in the first year, then they cannot match and then reassign payment.

Matching total payments over the duration of the contract has to be the same. Front loading or back loading of the offering club is irrelevant

 

[Dudersaurus]

No, I was sent this regard to an RFA query. Its irrelevant in a purely FA movement



In relation to your question below please refer to player rule 17.5 (m)

m) Where any Club enters into a Contract of Service with a Restricted Free Agent under Rule 17.5(g) or (i) (and for the avoidance of doubt, not in the case of a Contract of Service entered into under Rule 17.5(j) the Club may elect to allocate payments under the Contract of Service (including incentives) and any Additional Services agreement to the relevant Player evenly over the period of the contract(s) for Total Player Payment purposes, subject to the approval of the General Counsel. The Club must make any election to allocate payments under this Rule within 7 days of entry into the Contract of Service and immediately notify the AFL of the election. Any election by the Club to allocate payments under this Rule does not impact the time for actual payments to the Player, which must be in accordance with the contract(s).

For example if the player is offered 4m over 4 years in the structure of 800k, 1.2m, 800k, 1.2m the matching club could allocate evenly over the 4 years at 1m per season.

Hope that helps clarify.

Cheers,

Simon

​ Simon Murphy​ TPP Additional Services and Statistics Advisor​ AFL HOUSE | 140 Harbour Esplanade | Docklands VIC 3008​ GPO Box 1449 | Melbourne VIC 3001​ ​ Ph: (03) 9643 1793​ ,​ M: 0438 725 213​

Huh. There ya go. I guess that's what you get for listening to media and people who supposedly know stuff.

Is that the same for general nominated draft contracts though? I assume not, otherwise front-loading martin would have been pointless.

 

[Mego Red]

Can we please stop talk of a Priority Pick, it does not happen any more, Gold Coast was a one off package to remedy the failings of the AFL in setting them up.

Brad Crouch who we constantly bag on here is not getting Band 1, other clubs are not stupid, did you know they actually watch our games and see what we see? No club is giving him sufficient $ and years to fall into Band 1.

People have very inflated ideas on what players like Atkins and Laird are worth. You need to scrutinise trades and compo over the last say three years to see we aren't getting much for them.

Can we also stop talking about sweetheart deals with WB to not bid on Ugle-Hagan, the AFL watch all these things very closely, any sniff of dodgy dealings and you end up with sanctions - yet again!

Because some numpty emotional supporters shit on Brad Crouch, he's not getting $750k?

Insane. Of course he is.

And Atkins is a first 22 outside mid who can accumulate. He will get a similar offer to Tomlinson or Ed Langdon and is probably end of 2nd round compo.

Laird is a multiple time All Australian, a club B&F and only 25. You can value that yourself. Probably less than Wingard, but not miles off.

We clearly shook hands with GWS on not bidding for Green last year. He was a clear need for us and we have a history of bidding. It would happen all the time, though kept hush hush. No one can be compelled to bid.

 

[Dudersaurus]

Matching total payments over the duration of the contract has to be the same. Front loading or back loading of the offering club is irrelevant

Yeah, deleted my comment when I eventually skipped to his plain English example at the end.

 

[SaltPeter]

Huh. There ya go. I guess that's what you get for listening to media and people who supposedly know stuff.

Is that the same for general nominated draft contracts though? I assume not, otherwise front-loading martin would have been pointless.

AFAIK, yes. Front loading Martin's contract suited Carlton's player payment structure.

Apparently they had deliberately gone close to minimum spend for the previous 2 years. If they get a larger part of Martin's contract paid in the first year, it freed up space in subsequent years.

 

[Mego Red]

Roo is on record that if we had matched Keath then someone else would have been forced out. Our cap is maxed.

Next year we will be paying first team salaries to multiple players who definitely will not be in our first team:

Walker
Jenkins
Gibbs
Seedsman

We might pick up a few more Stengle Frampton Crocker Keays types but it would be quite surprising if we are picking off genuine talent from elsewhere.

I will be delighted if we retain Doedee and Hamill.

Everyone is always at 95% of cap.

Couch would be on $700k, Atkins would be on $300k. Walker could retire and with a negotiated pay out we could remove him. Similar but less likely with Gibbs.

Jenkins would be finished after this year, wouldn't he?

 

[Sidthehat]

Reckon it's very unlikely we'll have any sort of sweetheart deal with WB.

Unless they have pick 2 or so, other clubs would sure as heck bid on Ugle if we don't. To get pick 2 or so, they'd have to either finish near bottom (not going to happen) or trade with some other club to get there so they'd likely not have the draft goodies anymore to give us to get us to not bid on Ugle.

Can we bid on him and then do a trade ourselves with the Bulldogs?
ie Bid 2, they have to pay 2200, rather than using pick 10 and getting 4th rounder left over, we give them two early 20s which leaves them a 3rd.

 

[GrommoT]

Can we bid on him and then do a trade ourselves with the Bulldogs?
ie Bid 2, they have to pay 2200, rather than using pick 10 and getting 4th rounder left over, we give them two early 20s which leaves them a 3rd.

Seems an unlikely outcome to me.

 

[SaltPeter]

Rory Sloane

9

Rory Sloane

Age

35

Ht

183cm

Wt

87kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

23.7

5star

K

11.7

4star

HB

11.9

5star

M

3.5

4star

T

6.6

5star

CL

5.7

5star

D

15.3

4star

K

7.3

3star

HB

8.0

4star

M

1.3

1star

T

3.3

4star

CL

4.2

5star

D

22.2

5star

K

8.6

4star

HB

13.6

5star

M

3.2

4star

T

6.0

5star

CL

4.6

5star

 

[SaltPeter]

Seems an unlikely outcome to me.

We've now got player pop-up mini cards

Daniel Talia

12

Daniel Talia

Age

34

Ht

197cm

Wt

98kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

12.0

3star

K

7.0

3star

HB

5.0

4star

M

4.4

4star

T

1.8

4star

MG

169.9

3star

D

10.4

3star

K

7.9

3star

HB

2.5

2star

M

4.5

4star

T

1.1

2star

MG

187.6

3star

D

11.4

3star

K

7.0

3star

HB

4.4

4star

M

2.2

3star

T

3.4

5star

 

[Golumless]

Brad Crouch

5

Brad Crouch

Age

31

Ht

186cm

Wt

86kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

26.1

5star

K

12.1

4star

HB

14.0

5star

M

2.7

3star

T

5.5

5star

CL

5.0

5star

D

20.3

5star

K

11.1

4star

HB

9.1

5star

M

1.5

2star

T

3.9

5star

CL

4.6

5star

D

21.6

5star

K

10.0

4star

HB

11.6

5star

M

3.4

4star

T

4.2

5star

CL

2.6

5star

 

[CrowsB4hoes]

David Mackay

Mine doesn’t work

Just like real life

 

[GrommoT]

We've now got player pop-up mini cards

Daniel Talia

12

Daniel Talia

Age

34

Ht

197cm

Wt

98kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

12.0

3star

K

7.0

3star

HB

5.0

4star

M

4.4

4star

T

1.8

4star

MG

169.9

3star

D

10.4

3star

K

7.9

3star

HB

2.5

2star

M

4.5

4star

T

1.1

2star

MG

187.6

3star

D

11.4

3star

K

7.0

3star

HB

4.4

4star

M

2.2

3star

T

3.4

5star