2020 Trade & List Management discussion

[hey shorty]

Yep. The article suggests we should pay big bucks to top end talent and young stars.

So that would mean keeping Lever, McGovern, Cameron, Gunston instead of guys like Mackay, Douglas, Hampton, Van Berlo

Not sure money keeps Gunston, he'd have stayed if we didn't ship him to Centrals every week.

Plus Gov and Lever have proven to not be worth what they're paid. I'd have been more happy to give Greenwood more money TBH

 

[1970crow]

All years could be a dud draft year.

Drafting will not rebuild a team, no matter how strong your hand is in a good/meh draft. The development afterwards is what we have to nail, regardless. Teams who think that all their problems would be solved by drafting well are fools and deserve to circle the drain for the next decade.

The only real argument for delaying a year would be to sort out our development coaches/rebuild that side.

That doesn't apply this year though. This draft year is more a lottery than ever before due to lack of exposure. We've got a huge exposure to the greater risk at the moment. If possible, any further assets acquired should be in the next draft and it's worth considering trading out some of the exposure if the deals are right.

 

[hey shorty]

That doesn't apply this year though. This draft year is more a lottery than ever before due to lack of exposure. We've got a huge exposure to the greater risk at the moment. If possible, any further assets acquired should be in the next draft and it's worth considering trading out some of the exposure if the deals are right.

It's not like these kids have been in the sights for 12 months though, and we are getting a good look at the locals and WA kids.

It's somewhat ironic that people here are open to trading out some assets in a current year for an unknown next year.

IMO this is likely to be the last year without a lottery system.

 

[1970crow]

Yep. The article suggests we should pay big bucks to top end talent and young stars.

So that would mean keeping Lever, McGovern, Cameron, Gunston instead of guys like Mackay, Douglas, Hampton, Van Berlo

Another issue is that past guns like Sloane, Tex and Talia earn their largest contracts into their 30s when their performances are starting to deteriorate. I can't fault Talia's output, but reality is that he's a backline stopper, providing only marginally more than Hartigan at $500k extra per year. Tex isn't even giving rookie value output for his $800k and Sloane not much more than the next guy up would provide if played in the same role. Tex for Frampton, Poholke for Sloane and Butts for Talia would make us a marginally lesser side at worst. We've got at least $1.5m of extra cap space tied up in players that don't make a meaningful difference to our performance.

And again, this is an ingrained philosophy. I distinctly recall Reid Snr saying that all of Goody, Edwards and Macca retiring would free up lots of cap space as they were, "very well paid boys". Seriously, in their last year pre-retirement, having signed the obligatory 30+ year old 1 year extensions? Can't be. So we screw it up at both ends, mediocre plodders are over valued and over paid and aged talent is rewarded for past deeds, not performance over their final contract. So when the guys that need to be paid the big uplift based upon what they've shown they're likely to deliver going forward, the money's just not there.

Not upping the Lyons offer to keep a cooked Thommo on contract in the SANFL is all that's required to get a clear understanding of how players are rewarded at our club.

 

[1970crow]

Not sure money keeps Gunston, he'd have stayed if we didn't ship him to Centrals every week.

Plus Gov and Lever have proven to not be worth what they're paid. I'd have been more happy to give Greenwood more money TBH

He got a lot more at Hawks though. They paid him on potential, that's why negotiations broke down.

 

[hey shorty]

He got a lot more at Hawks though. They paid him on potential, that's why negotiations broke down.

I think it's a bit of both, he was dirty he went out there.

I speak with a few ex teammates of his out there.... They said in hindsight they treated him pretty poorly

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

I know we go through this every year but where’s Aaron Francis at??

Not playing at the moment or is he injured?

if you could get the best out of him, he’s an upgrade on Kelly!

Was named as an emergency, but coming back from injury.

An Essendon supporter growing up, but if he became gettable... Which is doubt, would be crazy not to go after him.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

Not a need. We have plenty of defenders

Not that can play on talls & smalls though. Can't have enough of these types.

 

[1970crow]

It's not like these kids have been in the sights for 12 months though, and we are getting a good look at the locals and WA kids.

It's somewhat ironic that people here are open to trading out some assets in a current year for an unknown next year.

IMO this is likely to be the last year without a lottery system.

You can't argue that the data is remotely similar to the norm. We're missing an entire season of the biggest provider of talent. It's the same for everybody, but even the most basic premise of risk management sees you avoiding this draft to the full extent available. This is not a draft that you actively load up into. You don't give them away, but like any future trade, there's a risk sweet spot and that has been enlarged courtesy of the TAC cup issue.

I'm not sure the relevance of your prediction re lottery. Until AFL leaks to their preferred scribes to get a gauge on public sentiment, I doubt it's close to happening.

 

[Golumless]

That doesn't apply this year though. This draft year is more a lottery than ever before due to lack of exposure. We've got a huge exposure to the greater risk at the moment. If possible, any further assets acquired should be in the next draft and it's worth considering trading out some of the exposure if the deals are right.

I would agree that we shouldn't be looking at adding or strengthening our hand in this draft (outside of B.Crouch compo). Though, if there is a year to really stick to SA for drafting, this is probably it, seeing their exposure is pretty similar.

The good thing for this exposure is its not like we'll have or need 2nd/3rd/4th round picks due to the NGA.

 

[I Lost My Keays]

Guys just a thought.. Will Hayward out of contract from the Swans end of this year. Would be a great get if we could lure him home on good coin. Just the outside class we need to complement our young mids going forward. Prob would want a good pick mind you..

We owe the swans one

 

[Mutineer]

Not sure money keeps Gunston, he'd have stayed if we didn't ship him to Centrals every week.

Plus Gov and Lever have proven to not be worth what they're paid. I'd have been more happy to give Greenwood more money TBH

Greenwood has said since money wasn't the issue, it was moreso security he was looking for with his partner expecting their first child at the time, he was looking for 4 years and we'd only pony up 2 years. I think he settled for 3 at the GCS with a 4th if he met certain contractual conditions?

 

[triggyscrewedus]

Another issue is that past guns like Sloane, Tex and Talia earn their largest contracts into their 30s when their performances are starting to deteriorate. I can't fault Talia's output, but reality is that he's a backline stopper, providing only marginally more than Hartigan at $500k extra per year. Tex isn't even giving rookie value output for his $800k and Sloane not much more than the next guy up would provide if played in the same role. Tex for Frampton, Poholke for Sloane and Butts for Talia would make us a marginally lesser side at worst. We've got at least $1.5m of extra cap space tied up in players that don't make a meaningful difference to our performance.

And again, this is an ingrained philosophy. I distinctly recall Reid Snr saying that all of Goody, Edwards and Macca retiring would free up lots of cap space as they were, "very well paid boys". Seriously, in their last year pre-retirement, having signed the obligatory 30+ year old 1 year extensions? Can't be. So we screw it up at both ends, mediocre plodders are over valued and over paid and aged talent is rewarded for past deeds, not performance over their final contract. So when the guys that need to be paid the big uplift based upon what they've shown they're likely to deliver going forward, the money's just not there.

Not upping the Lyons offer to keep a cooked Thommo on contract in the SANFL is all that's required to get a clear understanding of how players are rewarded at our club.

Polk for Sloane....?? Turn it up.
Sloane is better on 1 leg.

 

[Golumless]

Polk for Sloane....?? Turn it up.
Sloane is better on 1 leg.

At peak, probably. Right now Polk is definitely better than an injured Sloane.

 

[triggyscrewedus]

At peak, probably. Right now Polk is definitely better than an injured Sloane.

I'd really like to agree as i was hoping Polk would come on this year..
Having said that I have never thought he'd be a player.
What is it that people see in his game?
Composure is terrible.
Average skill set.
Not fast.
I'd rather look across the centre circle and see a half cooked Sloane ready to crack in at a centre bounce than Polk.
(Obviously prefer not to play injured blokes)

 

[1990crow]

I'd really like to agree as i was hoping Polk would come on this year..
Having said that I have never thought he'd be a player.
What is it that people see in his game?
Composure is terrible.
Average skill set.
Not fast.
I'd rather look across the centre circle and see a half cooked Sloane ready to crack in at a centre bounce than Polk.
(Obviously prefer not to play injured blokes)

Poholke hasn't been given the chance to show what he has so I don't know how you can possibly have made that opinion.

 

[triggyscrewedus]

Poholke hasn't been given the chance to show what he has so I don't know how you can possibly have made that opinion.

He's had chances and failed to grab them.
4 years on the list, these guys are watched everyday it's not just a game on the weekend.
If he was dominating training or had a skill set that couldn't be denied he'd be playing but he's not because he's not good enough.

 

[1990crow]

He's had chances and failed to grab them.
4 years on the list, these guys are watched everyday it's not just a game on the weekend.
If he was dominating training or had a skill set that couldn't be denied he'd be playing but he's not because he's not good enough.

When has he been played as a full time mid which is his position

 

[Mego Red]

Not that can play on talls & smalls though. Can't have enough of these types.

Kelly, Doedee ...

 

[DJ75]

It's the absolute opposite of what we've done historically

It must be the right way to go then

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

Kelly, Doedee ...

Kelly can't play on tall nor of the same quality.

 

[Golumless]

I'd really like to agree as i was hoping Polk would come on this year..
Having said that I have never thought he'd be a player.
What is it that people see in his game?
Composure is terrible.
Average skill set.
Not fast.
I'd rather look across the centre circle and see a half cooked Sloane ready to crack in at a centre bounce than Polk.
(Obviously prefer not to play injured blokes)

He's flawed but really, I think he showed enough in his two games to be worth persisting with. After all, he's averaging a goal a game which is no mean feat in this side.

Still, he looked absolutely amazing in the trial matches when he got on the list, and stagnated. I'd be inclined to think he'll end up being a star in the 2nds and only a depth option in the 1sts.

Though, as it stands, I would not want to see a half cooked Sloane in at the centre bounces because he is not cracking in. It could be the type of injury impacting him, but its been very uncharacteristic.

 

[rubbers0ul]

Toby McLean? Would walk into crows midfield next year


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Would walk into most teams midfields.

Must have knocked off bevo’s wife.


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[Mego Red]

Kelly can't play on tall nor of the same quality.

Of course he can. And yes, he's shit, absolutely.

 

[Mego Red]

He's flawed but really, I think he showed enough in his two games to be worth persisting with. After all, he's averaging a goal a game which is no mean feat in this side.

Still, he looked absolutely amazing in the trial matches when he got on the list, and stagnated. I'd be inclined to think he'll end up being a star in the 2nds and only a depth option in the 1sts.

Though, as it stands, I would not want to see a half cooked Sloane in at the centre bounces because he is not cracking in. It could be the type of injury impacting him, but its been very uncharacteristic.

Sloane has been given a more outside role.