2020 Trade & List Management discussion

[rabidcrow]

Mackay was extended as a thank you for the past. We don't concern ourselves with the future.

I wouldn’t have kept MacKay - I would have gone Gallucci but to suggest we are living in the past is ridiculous. We do need some players over 23 on our list. We are down to about 15? And we know next year another 3-4 of those are gone. While we haven’t necessarily kept the players I would have - I think we have definitely cut deep enough so far


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

 

[Crow till I die]

Matt Kennedy delisted by Calrton to be re-rokkied.

Should we rookie him just to up Carlton? I thought he has a game.

shame it wasn't Liam Stocker

14

Liam Stocker

Age

25

Ht

184cm

Wt

86kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

13.6

3star

K

8.4

3star

HB

5.2

4star

M

2.4

3star

T

1.8

4star

MG

180.0

3star

No current season stats available

D

13.6

4star

K

8.4

4star

HB

5.2

4star

M

2.4

3star

T

1.8

4star

MG

180.0

3star

..only so we could rookie him to stick it up the Carlton board on Big Footy

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

The selection philosophy changed when Pyke left and we decided to rebuild

Selection philosophy changed about a month or so in when we dropped some non performing experienced players for younger players... & our performances slowly improved!

 

[triggyscrewedus]

Selection philosophy changed about a month or so in when we dropped some non performing experienced players for younger players... & our performances slowly improved!

Who would've thought !

 

[Hodgy]

I wouldn’t have kept MacKay - I would have gone Gallucci but to suggest we are living in the past is ridiculous. We do need some players over 23 on our list. We are down to about 15? And we know next year another 3-4 of those are gone. While we haven’t necessarily kept the players I would have - I think we have definitely cut deep enough so far


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

I don’t have a problem keeping either, but seems massive mistake to not have them on the rookie list. You can give Mackay the same 1 year contract as a rookie, and it gives you way more flexibility in the draft. We could easily lose out on Newchurch or Edwards if they get selected in the last few picks and we don’t have any spots left.

 

[Crow till I die]

Looking at our strategy, if we were planning on going hollands for pick 1 i would have liked us to have made a play to get harry himmelberg across as he can really play and would fill the tall forward role we would miss not taking thilthorpe or mcdonald. He is still a good age profile and imo would have been a great fit for us if we could have gone for him

 

[Jeffcrowe]

And only Douglas was forcibly retired, Otto completely cooked and JJ moved on for being lippy. Every other senior player had an extension in front of them that they chose not to sign. That’s not a deliberate rebuild.

They were unders deals to move them on , same has happened this off season with Hartigan

this is a deliberate and deep rebuild

 

[Jeffcrowe]

Milera is barely AFL quality as a forward. Kicked 3 in a quarter once but has been droppable the rest of the time. He’s 5 times the player behind the ball as he is ahead of it.

He is which is an indictment on him

with Hamill, McPherson and scholl ( wing and half back ) the future off half back and milera with potential to be effective forward of centre we need him to step up and take a role mid / forward

 

[mistylake]

We will play Tex all year regardless of form purely because of his 200 games.

If they play Tex all year Fogarty could well be gone at years end.

 

[SaltPeter]

If they play Tex all year Fogarty could well be gone at years end.

If Fogarty can't fit enough to make at least a second, let alone 3 effort he could be gone at the end of year

Let's be clear, Fogarty was thrown into the contest (not centre) quite a few times this year and he seemed like he fitted. His biggest problem was he couldn't back it up. Godden was right

 

[Golumless]

He is which is an indictment on him

with Hamill, McPherson and scholl ( wing and half back ) the future off half back and milera with potential to be effective forward of centre we need him to step up and take a role mid / forward

Not really. Every outside player is a much better player behind the ball then they are in front of it. After all it's much easier to be consistent and dangerous in a position where you'll find a lot of easy ball, then you are fighting over scraps. You could argue anyone who can do it in front of the ball is worth their weight in gold.

In terms of Milera, he's not a forward at this level. The defensive game isn't aggressive enough (though he's improved in that facet, but Milera skill set suits being deeper in a zonal defence seeing he's capable overhead and his tackling will hold up in a pinch), nor is his inside game advanced enough to reliably win his own ball, which you need to be a half forward, seeing its a lot more opportunistic than a proper outside position. Got a bit of mercurial about him, but the game has moved long past the days that having a bit of x-factor around goals is all you need to be a smaller forward.

McPherson isn't competing with him, seeing he's on track to take Kellys spot (and should have it round one), and will probably replace Brown long term. Sholl and Hamill are, but you need at least four players capable of rotating through half back and wing. There is certainly a spot for Milera as a wing/half back, but he needs to stay fit and needs to convince the coaches he's not the reincarnation of Van Berlo (seeing how much he got shuffled around in 2019 was ridiculous).

 

[Danger Zone]

I can't work out why we didn't delist Mackay with a promise to "take him in the rookie draft". Literally no one was going to take him and that extra ND pick may have been crucial. Its not like we don't have more dead weight to cut next year from the senior list if that was the concern.

 

[Jeffcrowe]

Not really. Every outside player is a much better player behind the ball then they are in front of it. After all it's much easier to be consistent and dangerous in a position where you'll find a lot of easy ball, then you are fighting over scraps. You could argue anyone who can do it in front of the ball is worth their weight in gold.

In terms of Milera, he's not a forward at this level. The defensive game isn't aggressive enough (though he's improved in that facet, but Milera skill set suits being deeper in a zonal defence seeing he's capable overhead and his tackling will hold up in a pinch), nor is his inside game advanced enough to reliably win his own ball, which you need to be a half forward, seeing its a lot more opportunistic than a proper outside position. Got a bit of mercurial about him, but the game has moved long past the days that having a bit of x-factor around goals is all you need to be a smaller forward.

McPherson isn't competing with him, seeing he's on track to take Kellys spot (and should have it round one), and will probably replace Brown long term. Sholl and Hamill are, but you need at least four players capable of rotating through half back and wing. There is certainly a spot for Milera as a wing/half back, but he needs to stay fit and needs to convince the coaches he's not the reincarnation of Van Berlo (seeing how much he got shuffled around in 2019 was ridiculous).

He’s better than that , he’s got the tools just needs to toughen up and do it

 

[Vader]

If they play Tex all year Fogarty could well be gone at years end.

Probably right, but not for the reasons you're implying.

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[Bearded Clam]

I can't work out why we didn't delist Mackay with a promise to "take him in the rookie draft". Literally no one was going to take him and that extra ND pick may have been crucial. Its not like we don't have more dead weight to cut next year from the senior list if that was the concern.

Because the club quite obviously thinks the lad is an absolute gun player.

It would not surprise me in the least to hear that he has still been getting his $400k a year the last couple of years when they have been giving him these 1 year extensions to his last contract.

The club has given him another year this year even though list sizes are reducing and every spot on the list is even more valuable... as a 32 year old in a rebuild.

They think hes a hell of a lot more than just an average player. Let that sink in...

Its truely deluded.

 

[mistylake]

Probably right, but not for the reasons you're implying.

On SM-T510 using BigFooty.com mobile app

A bit from column A and a bit from column B

 

[Vader]

Because the club quite obviously thinks the lad is an absolute gun player.

It would not surprise me in the least to hear that he has still been getting his $400k a year the last couple of years when they have been giving him these 1 year extensions to his last contract.

The club has given him another year this year even though list sizes are reducing and every spot on the list is even more valuable... as a 32 year old in a rebuild.

They think hes a hell of a lot more than just an average player. Let that sink in...

Its truely deluded.

He did finish top-10 in this year's B&F, and top-5 on a votes-per-game basis. Let that sink in...

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

We need to move past Walker and Mackay as players and as leaders

If the club was confident in the playing list and younger players we would move past them, because of all the good footballers and quality leaders we have coming through. We're not confident in the playing list though.

If the club coaches were confident in their ability to develop and identify players we would move past Tex and DMac. We're not though.

The decision makers at the club have significant doubt in their own abilities and that is reflected by the choices they make.

Move Tex and D Mac on....? Hmmm not sure, I'm a bit iffy about our list.

We'll see new leaders emerge...? Hmmmm maybe, it could happen. You want names? Well, the Dude when he's not injured. And... umm... what was the question again?

We'll develop good players...? I guess anything's possible. But just in case we don't....

Absence of talent + Absence of leadership + Absence of proven football department decision makers + Absence of proven development coaches

= retain a few older guys even though they are obviously past it

 

[Crow Envy]

We need to move past Walker and Mackay as players and as leaders

If the club was confident in the playing list and younger players we would move past them, because of all the good footballers and quality leaders we have coming through. We're not confident in the playing list though.

If the club coaches were confident in their ability to develop and identify players we would move past Tex and DMac. We're not though.

The decision makers at the club have significant doubt in their own abilities and that is reflected by the choices they make.

Move Tex and D Mac on....? Hmmm not sure, I'm a bit iffy about our list.

We'll see new leaders emerge...? Hmmmm maybe, it could happen. You want names? Well, the Dude when he's not injured. And... umm... what was the question again?

We'll develop good players...? I guess anything's possible. But just in case we don't....

Absence of talent + Absence of leadership + Absence of proven football department decision makers + Absence of proven development coaches

= retain a few older guys even though they are obviously past it

2021 is going to be sad watching Tex struggle and the scrutiny that will come. It’s so obviously going to happen, but this is on the club and Tex who are about the only ones who couldn’t foresee it and for not making the right call.

 

[Kezza86]

2021 is going to be sad watching Tex struggle and the scrutiny that will come. It’s so obviously going to happen, but this is on the club and Tex who are about the only ones who couldn’t foresee it and for not making the right call.

What if Tex gets himself in shape like Hawkins and kicks 50 goals plus. What would you do there?

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

What if Tex gets himself in shape like Hawkins and kicks 50 goals plus. What would you do there?

How many years have we been hoping that would happen?

 

[Crow Envy]

What if Tex gets himself in shape like Hawkins and kicks 50 goals plus. What would you do there?

I’d be ecstatic but there is about as much chance as that happening as us getting pick 2 for Crouch.

Also hopefully he’s been watching Hawkins and realises you need to go up 2 hands to mark the ball.

 

[Betts are off]

shame it wasn't Liam Stocker

14

Liam Stocker

Age

25

Ht

184cm

Wt

86kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

13.6

3star

K

8.4

3star

HB

5.2

4star

M

2.4

3star

T

1.8

4star

MG

180.0

3star

No current season stats available

D

13.6

4star

K

8.4

4star

HB

5.2

4star

M

2.4

3star

T

1.8

4star

MG

180.0

3star

..only so we could rookie him to stick it up the Carlton board on Big Footy

Speaking of Stocker, his way back into the team just took another hit with the recruitment of Saad, Williams and Fogarty. On the back of Martin in 2019.

It wouldn’t surprise me if he’s not at CFC after next year

 

[Thetrader15]

I’d be ecstatic but there is about as much chance as that happening as us getting pick 2 for Crouch.

Also hopefully he’s been watching Hawkins and realises you need to go up 2 hands to mark the ball.

Also hopefully our mids have been watching how the Cats mids kick the ball out in front of Hawkins not behind him or over his head.

 

[Maggsy]

How many picks will your club use at the NAB AFL Draft?

Clubs are deciding how many selections they will use at next month's intake of players

www.afl.com.au