2020 Trade & List Management discussion

[Betts are off]

While the Crows are improving every week I feel we are already about to hit our ceiling the current squad can achieve. Few players will be discarded

Obvious Delistings / trade giveaways
Gibbs
Gallucci
Poholke
Davis
Knight
Mackay
Wilson



Tough call but these players I feel wont make it long term but will get more opportunity
McHenry - It is worrying he hasn't had a game that makes you take notice. Ive seen alot of mouthing off but seen nothing else.
Keays - He did start to win me over but he isnt fast, fumbles, and his decision making is questionable.
Crocker - Does nothing.
ROB - Tries hard but you feel he wont be able to hold his spot as a lead ruckmen long term
Himmelberg - Another that tries but at 200cm he should be taking his marking opportunities.
Frampton - Someone else who doesnt take his chances for his height.
McAdam - Just seems lost on the field and another who just doesn't do enough.
Schoenberg - I know this is a monster call but he just isn't ready and im not seeing anything at this stage.
Strachan - at 25yo its worrying

Wins for the club
Sholl
McPherson
Hamill
McAsey

Wow... I didn’t know you could fit so many bad hot takes in a single post

 

[azza77]

We all rejoiced when he slid to pick 12, don't see much rejoicing now, making me nervous that he's just going to be an ok player, nothing more.

We really need to nail this draft, can't afford any busts. A lot of talk about the value of bottoming out but think about it this way - for being Wooden Spooner you get pick 1, after that, in the draft the Premier has the pick before you every round. It's not that much of an advantage given how often pick 1 just ends up an ordinary player or, or, or a bust!

The other over rated tactic is trading out quality experienced players for draft picks. What kind of side will you be left with if you get rid of your best players? A team of getting hammered each week, developing home sickness kids.

A lot of dreamers on this board, we are not getting back gun SA players from Gold Coast or other good teams. Who in their right mind would want to join us with our history making on field performances and suspect administration.

We are in deep, deep poo, need to think our way through this very carefully, it is not all suddenly going to be good again in a couple of years.

The bloke has barely even played 20 games, for a shitful side that has one of the worst forward coaches to grace the AFL, along with a midfield that has continually dished up some of the worst forward 50 entries I've seen for almost 3 years straight now.

Patience

 

[Mego Red]

2020 Off season

Trade
Matt Crouch - to Geelong, pick 14

Free Agent
Brad Crouch - pick 2
Rory Atkins - end of 2nd round

Delist/Retire
David Mackay
Kyle Hartigan
Riley Knight
Myles Poholke
Ayce Taylor r
Kieran Strachan r
Ben Crocker r
Patrick Wilson r

Pay Out - Retire - Trade?
Bryce Gibbs (maybe goes somewhere else for a year)
Tex Walker (retire)

Re-sign - one year
Ben Keays
Elliott Himmelberg
Jordan Gallucci
Tyson Stengle

9 off main list, 4 off rookie. List reductions?

Probably clears about $3m in cap room, even with the re-signings and payouts.

Leaves us with 1, 2, 12, 14, 20 and 30 plus late picks, before trades.

Probably have our eye on Hately, O'Halloran, Sparrow, Graham, CCJ, Dunstan, Valente plus who knows who else.

 

[DJ75]

Listening to Roo this morning left me more concerned about the future than I was before.

He was adamant the rebuild was a planned and clear decision. He thought the senior players were 'out of form' at the start of the season and this along with playing so many kids is why we are 0-11. He then revealed that we are basically maxed out in our salary cap - saying that they are hoping to have some more money available under the cap at end of next year to start approaching players.

So basically, he completely misread the Senior players. He planned on keeping certain players, only to not see the cliff approaching them. He has also overseen list management decisions that have led to a maxed out salary cap for a team that is historically awful and currently sits at 0-11. That requires a very special level of incompetence.

Meanwhile he also said that they needed to improve the coaching panel. Well duh. Did he not look at what was there and see how utterly cr@p it was before the season? Everyone else did.

This, on top of his appointment of Burton and Hass, and his blind faith in both, show that he has no right at all to believe he can see the club through this period. None. There is no evidence in his history that he has the capability to make decisions that actually help.

Can he just leave already??

 

[briztoon]

2020 Off season

Trade
Matt Crouch - to Geelong, pick 14

Free Agent
Brad Crouch - pick 2
Rory Atkins - end of 2nd round

Delist/Retire
David Mackay
Kyle Hartigan
Riley Knight
Myles Poholke
Ayce Taylor r
Kieran Strachan r
Ben Crocker r
Patrick Wilson r

Pay Out - Retire - Trade?
Bryce Gibbs (maybe goes somewhere else for a year)
Tex Walker (retire)

Re-sign - one year
Ben Keays
Elliott Himmelberg
Jordan Gallucci
Tyson Stengle

9 off main list, 4 off rookie. List reductions?

Probably clears about $3m in cap room, even with the re-signings and payouts.

Leaves us with 1, 2, 12, 14, 20 and 30 plus late picks, before trades.

Probably have our eye on Hately, O'Halloran, Sparrow, Graham, CCJ, Dunstan, Valente plus who knows who else.

I’m not sure Geelong would trade 14 for MCrouch.

I believe they might trade the third of their first round picks for MCrouch.

Their first and second picks are potentially right in that sweet spot of the first round.

At their third pick, there’s possibly 3 or 4 mids available who’s ceiling is Matt or Brad Crouch, and maybe an undersized tall.

 

[Anzacpaul]

Listening to Roo this morning left me more concerned about the future than I was before.

He was adamant the rebuild was a planned and clear decision.

I almost threw up when he said that last night on Fox.

 

[WeedsMullet84]

I’m not sure Geelong would trade 14 for MCrouch.

I believe they might trade the third of their first round picks for MCrouch.

Their first and second picks are potentially right in that sweet spot of the first round.

At their third pick, there’s possibly 3 or 4 mids available who’s ceiling is Matt or Brad Crouch, and maybe an undersized tall.

Lol, i enjoy your contributions to this page but there's a fair bit of fluff 'could/would/potentially' in that response. I mean, at our 5th pick there 'could' be 'potentially' a midfielder with the ceiling of Luke Hodge, 'allegedly'.

Geelong are firmly in their window and will look to have a balance of bringing in ready made players and going to the Draft, and if the right player comes along they'll definitely look to use their high draft picks if needed. I think that's more likely to be Brad than Matt as he won't cost a pick, and 14 is over value for MCrouch anyway. As you can see Matt is beginning to find some form without his brother in there, so i doubt he'll be on the trade table at all, at least not until next year.

 

[Idontpullout]

I almost threw up when he said that last night on Fox.

We all knew we were in for a rebuild this year.
Obviously know one thought we would be this bad but i didn't see to much wrong in his comments.
I'll wait to judge him until after we see who he appoints as next years back room staff.
Go to the draft with a strong hand next 2 years. Then with cap space hit free agency/trade.
Isn't that when rankine/luko come out of contract.

 

[Betts are off]

Listening to Roo this morning left me more concerned about the future than I was before.

He was adamant the rebuild was a planned and clear decision. He thought the senior players were 'out of form' at the start of the season and this along with playing so many kids is why we are 0-11. He then revealed that we are basically maxed out in our salary cap - saying that they are hoping to have some more money available under the cap at end of next year to start approaching players.

So basically, he completely misread the Senior players. He planned on keeping certain players, only to not see the cliff approaching them. He has also overseen list management decisions that have led to a maxed out salary cap for a team that is historically awful and currently sits at 0-11. That requires a very special level of incompetence.

Meanwhile he also said that they needed to improve the coaching panel. Well duh. Did he not look at what was there and see how utterly cr@p it was before the season? Everyone else did.

This, on top of his appointment of Burton and Hass, and his blind faith in both, show that he has no right at all to believe he can see the club through this period. None. There is no evidence in his history that he has the capability to make decisions that actually help.

Can he just leave already??

Regarding not spending until the end of next year, I actually think that's our best move anyway. Get some draft picks in, clean out the dead wood, play kids, get the foundations set, and then go after the big fish to surge you back up the ladder.

Throwing money around this offseason if almost pointless. We are certainly not 1-2 players away from finals. And the players we would attract this year will be closer to list cloggers then big fish!

 

[briztoon]

Lol, i enjoy your contributions to this page but there's a fair bit of fluff 'could/would/potentially' in that response. I mean, at our 5th pick there 'could' be 'potentially' a midfielder with the ceiling of Luke Hodge, 'allegedly'.

Geelong are firmly in their window and will look to have a balance of bringing in ready made players and going to the Draft, and if the right player comes along they'll definitely look to use their high draft picks if needed. I think that's more likely to be Brad than Matt as he won't cost a pick, and 14 is over value for MCrouch anyway. As you can see Matt is beginning to find some form without his brother in there, so i doubt he'll be on the trade table at all, at least not until next year.

How is my could/would/potentially any different to any trade proposal floated here?

I have a bit of knowledge of this years draft pool, so when I’m talking about potential players available in certain sections of the top end of the draft, I actually have specific players in mind.

Geelong have 3 first round picks, so I was suggesting Geelong would value their first two picks, and the possible players available, higher than Matt Crouch. The third and last of their third rounders is outside the top group of kids for mine, and a couple of the mids potentially available there are a similar type to the Crouch brothers.

And Brad Crouch wasn’t mentioned in the original post I replied to, so I didn’t feel the need to discuss the possibility of Geelong offering Brad a contract, as that would have voided the point of the conversation.

 

[Comeonden]

Loving the work of laird in the midfield.

 

[Matman23]

Wow

 

[Crow till I die]

How is my could/would/potentially any different to any trade proposal floated here?

I have a bit of knowledge of this years draft pool, so when I’m talking about potential players available in certain sections of the top end of the draft, I actually have specific players in mind.

Geelong have 3 first round picks, so I was suggesting Geelong would value their first two picks, and the possible players available, higher than Matt Crouch. The third and last of their third rounders is outside the top group of kids for mine, and a couple of the mids potentially available there are a similar type to the Crouch brothers.

And Brad Crouch wasn’t mentioned in the original post I replied to, so I didn’t feel the need to discuss the possibility of Geelong offering Brad a contract, as that would have voided the point of the conversation.

bit left field, but could geelong be a suitor to take both Crouch brothers this year? It would leave a massive hole in the Adelaide midfield next year without recruiting say a tom sparrow / Jye Caldwell type and maybe another big bodied mid for the shorter term to help the kids. But a possible set might be for Geelong to get both lads in to solidify their midfield post Ablett and with an aging Selwood and Dangerfield and keep them in their window. If Brad came free in terms of draft picks and they could get a contracted mat crouch for their 2021 1st which is very likely to be a teens pick, it would then leave them free to take 3 x 1sts to this years draft.

From the crows perspective, pick 2 and an extra 1st for next years draft might be enough for them to do such a deal which would then allow them 3 x 1sts in this years draft and maybe they could split pick 20 for 2 x mid 2nd rounders to grab a sparrow type and maybe a hately / caldwell and still leave points for NGA / F/S. Losing both Crouches would also free up salary cap to bring in a couple of replacements along the lines of those as mentioned

Is that beyond the realms of probability?

 

[Big Gazoongas]

Big fish
Rankine/Luko

Lol.......sorry forgot the war chest we have to get this done.

 

[1970crow]

Was told a month or so ago Geelong kicked the tires on him. Aware of Dangerfield and Selwood fading and want to bring in some more ready made midfielders while they think they have a window. A good year for them to do it since they have the Suns mid 1st round pick and the Eagles 1st round pick as well as their own.

Whoever the 'scoop' is on Dwayne's show just said that Patty is pushing for Brad at the Cats. Even if they don't cough up band 1 compo, they've got enough collateral for us to get good enough value for an uncontracted Brad.

 

[1970crow]

Pick 11 slides out a bit with potential bids to Ugle-Hagan (Dogs), Campbell (Syd), McInnes (Coll) and Jones (PA)

Dogs currently have 9, UH gets bid on much earlier, so their pick has equalised by 11. I know nothing of the others, but given Sydney have 2, I presume they'll jump ahead as will Port without a first rounder at all.

 

[briztoon]

bit left field, but could geelong be a suitor to take both Crouch brothers this year? It would leave a massive hole in the Adelaide midfield next year without recruiting say a tom sparrow / Jye Caldwell type and maybe another big bodied mid for the shorter term to help the kids. But a possible set might be for Geelong to get both lads in to solidify their midfield post Ablett and with an aging Selwood and Dangerfield and keep them in their window. If Brad came free in terms of draft picks and they could get a contracted mat crouch for their 2021 1st which is very likely to be a teens pick, it would then leave them free to take 3 x 1sts to this years draft.

From the crows perspective, pick 2 and an extra 1st for next years draft might be enough for them to do such a deal which would then allow them 3 x 1sts in this years draft and maybe they could split pick 20 for 2 x mid 2nd rounders to grab a sparrow type and maybe a hately / caldwell and still leave points for NGA / F/S. Losing both Crouches would also free up salary cap to bring in a couple of replacements along the lines of those as mentioned

Is that beyond the realms of probability?

I believe it would be best for the Crouch brothers to play in seperate teams.

I also believe you should be keeping Matt long term.

You can’t sell all your decent players, and should be keeping at least 6 experienced and quality players in the 25 to 28 age bracket.

You need to be keeping Sloane, MCrouch, Lynch, one of Laird or Smith and Doedee, to protect the younger players.

If you sell off all your veterans and mid aged players, you’ll end up worse than when GWS or Gold Coast first started, as you won’t have the same number of high end draft picks as they started with.

 

[DJ75]

I believe it would be best for the Crouch brothers to play in seperate teams.

I also believe you should be keeping Matt long term.

You can’t sell all your decent players, and should be keeping at least 6 experienced and quality players in the 25 to 28 age bracket.

You need to be keeping Sloane, MCrouch, Lynch, one of Laird or Smith and Doedee, to protect the younger players.

If you sell off all your veterans and mid aged players, you’ll end up worse than when GWS or Gold Coast first started, as you won’t have the same number of high end draft picks as they started with.

Yeh but you forget that we have geniuses like Roo and Reid in charge, so we are miles in front...

 

[Scorpus]

The other day Roo said our salary cap is full.

How is that possible? No seriously, how is that actually possible? It has to be a lie.

Every year each club has to pay at least 95% of the salary cap, so a cap being "full" in a given year is not a meaningful thing to say.

We only have 4 significant contracts beyond 2021: Sloane, Jones, Brown and Milera with a couple of other role players (eg McHenry, Sholl) signed to 2022.

That alone means we have a ridiculous amount of salary cap space. Unless we are paying Luke Brown $1.8 million a season of course. We could easily hand out 5 year contracts right now to basically anyone, because we have very few long term deals in play

 

[jackster83]

The other day Roo said our salary cap is full.

How is that possible? No seriously, how is that actually possible? It has to be a lie.

Every year each club has to pay at least 95% of the salary cap, so a cap being "full" in a given year is not a meaningful thing to say.

We only have 4 significant contracts beyond 2021: Sloane, Jones, Brown and Milera with a couple of other role players (eg McHenry, Sholl) signed to 2022.

That alone means we have a ridiculous amount of salary cap space. Unless we are paying Luke Brown $1.8 million a season of course. We could easily hand out 5 year contracts right now to basically anyone, because we have very few long term deals in play

Walker, Gibbs, Lynch, Crouch x2, Talia and Sloane would all likely be on $600k or more. Smith and Laird wouldn't be on small change, and we are still have part of JJ's and Eddie's contracts included in our cap.

 

[Scorpus]

Walker, Gibbs, Lynch, Crouch x2, Talia and Sloane would all likely be on $600k or more. Smith and Laird wouldn't be on small change, and we are still have part of JJ's and Eddie's contracts included in our cap.

That's this year (which we HAVE to pay 95% of the cap in) and next year. The only player you've listed signed beyond 2021 is Sloane. Given our lack of long term contracts, there is nothing to stop us re-signing anyone we want to, or obtaining anyone at the trade table.

 

[Cleric]

Tredders saying on AA that a couple of melbourne clubs into Matt Crouch. No problems trading out matt if he wants to go.

And replace him with who?
A speculative late first round pick? One that has maybe a 25% chance as being as good as him. Who is maybe a 5% chance of being an AA or B&F? And who's going to take the heat in the midfield while the younger players are getting smashed week after week?
You over estimate greatly the ability to replace talent in the draft.
Did we replace Lyons with a player as good?
Did we replace Danger?
What about Charlie Cameron?

Seriously, if we followed all these stupid trade ideas we would spend the next 10 years out of the finals.

 

[Crow till I die]

I believe it would be best for the Crouch brothers to play in seperate teams.

I also believe you should be keeping Matt long term.

You can’t sell all your decent players, and should be keeping at least 6 experienced and quality players in the 25 to 28 age bracket.

You need to be keeping Sloane, MCrouch, Lynch, one of Laird or Smith and Doedee, to protect the younger players.

If you sell off all your veterans and mid aged players, you’ll end up worse than when GWS or Gold Coast first started, as you won’t have the same number of high end draft picks as they started with.

I hear you on keeping a core of players and did note that it would leave a big hole in the guts, but maybe the players to hold are not either of these two (just spitballing not saying I think we should trade 1 or both out). We might be able to get 3 or 4 quality mids in this years and next years draft and therefore to have some B grade solid bodies traded in in there to help shield these kids might be a short term fix whilst the kids get up to speed. I suppose in a nutshell does the currency that could come from trading both lads out make it worthwile?

 

[briztoon]

I hear you on keeping a core of players and did note that it would leave a big hole in the guts, but maybe the players to hold are not either of these two (just spitballing not saying I think we should trade 1 or both out). We might be able to get 3 or 4 quality mids in this years and next years draft and therefore to have some B grade solid bodies traded in in there to help shield these kids might be a short term fix whilst the kids get up to speed. I suppose in a nutshell does the currency that could come from trading both lads out make it worthwile?

Unless you’re actually giving names to these solid B grade players you’re trading in, it’s hard to comment on whether it’s worthwhile trading out MCrouch.

I don’t believe you’ll find many B grade mids willing to come to Adelaide.

I believe you’ll end up like Brisbane in 2013 and 14. Trading in a heap of C graders (who are on the verge of being delisted and looking for a chance to stay in the system), to protect the kids, but end up playing the kids anyway because they’re better than the guys you traded in, and you’ll get smashed for a couple of years.

Anyway, that’s what happened with us.

 

[Anzacpaul]

And replace him with who?
A speculative late first round pick? One that has maybe a 25% chance as being as good as him. Who is maybe a 5% chance of being an AA or B&F? And who's going to take the heat in the midfield while the younger players are getting smashed week after week?
You over estimate greatly the ability to replace talent in the draft.
Did we replace Lyons with a player as good?
Did we replace Danger?
What about Charlie Cameron?

Seriously, if we followed all these stupid trade ideas we would spend the next 10 years out of the finals.

Providing Brad stays, no issue with letting Matt go.

Cannot afford to lose both, and I'd rather lose Matt.