List Mgmt. 2020 Trade Thread - Part I

[SaintsSeptember]

Gilbert was a similar size and ran through the midfield successfully at times.

 

[Stewart66]

If you're basing you opinion on his state league games then he is a mid because he's done so in the wafl.

Of course you didn't personally witness it so you're not going to say so, but none the less it did happen.

The OP asked what were peoples expectations, to which you replied only by quashing the expectations of the other respondents, rather than offering your own hopes or desires.

Having rated Marsh as a C or D grade honest trier, you could have simply said that you have no expectations for him at all, or, you could have just left the rest of us to continue existing in our bubble of blissful hope and ignorance that, just maybe, one of our plethora of sub parr foot soldiers might have something to offer before we all curl up and turn to dust.

Do you have any expectations at all? Or have you permanently dispelled with such childish frivolities, preferring to cling to the grim outlook of permanently overcast soggy days that so predictability clog the grass catcher, and provide you with the assured feeling that you knew it would happen, so you were right not to hope for a surprise unseasonably sunny day?

Huge difference with Marsh from last year , was half fit intended to be playing VFL at Richmond .
Marsh did not leave Collingwood because of lack of ability ...there are a mature age players at number
of clubs proving their worth with opportunity.

Wilkie is one of them.

 

[ScrappyDo]

What do we need another kpf for? We've already got too many and we want to rest a ruck fwd too...

No, we have too many rucks. Currently 4 on the list.

And too many KPDs.
Currently 5 on the list.

We have 1 KPF. Ming
You could argue Josh Battle, but he's just as easily the 6th KPD too.

I'm talking list balance here, not best 22..

 

[plugger66]

If you're basing you opinion on his state league games then he is a mid because he's done so in the wafl.

Of course you didn't personally witness it so you're not going to say so, but none the less it did happen.

The OP asked what were peoples expectations, to which you replied only by quashing the expectations of the other respondents, rather than offering your own hopes or desires.

Having rated Marsh as a C or D grade honest trier, you could have simply said that you have no expectations for him at all, or, you could have just left the rest of us to continue existing in our bubble of blissful hope and ignorance that, just maybe, one of our plethora of sub parr foot soldiers might have something to offer before we all curl up and turn to dust.

Do you have any expectations at all? Or have you permanently dispelled with such childish frivolities, preferring to cling to the grim outlook of permanently overcast soggy days that so predictability clog the grass catcher, and provide you with the assured feeling that you knew it would happen, so you were right not to hope for a surprise unseasonably sunny day?

You know what I expect. Our best players to play in their best positions. Playing guys not in their best position doesn’t help us I know people love the idea of just playing a guy in another position and some miracle will ok and I’m sure you can find one example. The problem is there are hundreds where it’s a waste of time or worse still could cost us a game. If marsh plays it will be as a back or forward.

and the thread about trades so we are all off target. Anyway well written. And you have convinced me to continue posting as I do.

 

[gringo2011]

I like him. Could take Gears spot.

He's so tough he could take Gears' lunch money.

 

[Mowman]

Totally agree we dont have the ready made stars through the midfield, so it would be great so see Ratts think outside the box and Marsh's big body in the middle is exactly that. Even Battle & Membrey to rotate through to mix it up Ratts. Get ahead of the curve - we dont have have to do exactly what other teams are doing get on the front foot and use our strengths.

I will be so disappointed if Ratts coaching setups just continue on from what Richardson was doing and the North game smelt the same.

Agree, I think he would be a very good as mid given a chance with his big body and pace, his kicking is not great but whole lot better than Dunstan kicking. I believe a better option than Dunstan
Played mid as a Junior and for his WA side after leaving the pies

 

[Diehard Saint]

Having rated Marsh as a C or D grade honest trier, you could have simply said that you have no expectations for him at all, or, you could have just left the rest of us to continue existing in our bubble of blissful hope and ignorance that, just maybe, one of our plethora of sub parr foot soldiers might have something to offer before we all curl up and turn to dust.

Do you have any expectations at all? Or have you permanently dispelled with such childish frivolities, preferring to cling to the grim outlook of permanently overcast soggy days that so predictability clog the grass catcher, and provide you with the assured feeling that you knew it would happen, so you were right not to hope for a surprise unseasonably sunny day?

Perfectly put, Scrappy!
I felt that my fragile bubble of hope has just burst

Never mind, I'm nothing if optimistic and hope, that in this case, Pluggs will be proven incorrect.
If there's no hope, what do we (Saints) tragics have left???

 

[gringo2011]

Perfectly put, Scrappy!
I felt that my fragile bubble of hope has just burst

Never mind, I'm nothing if optimistic and hope, that in this case, Pluggs will be proven incorrect.
If there's no hope, what do we (Saints) tragics have left???

Brutal realism? I'm not expecting too much this year, I just want improvement and hope to continue to grow. I think we will be a slow starter and probably finish around 14th give or take a few spots. We have had a massive list turn over and need to learn to play together. No games won't help that. I feel like we wasted 8 years or so but we finally seem to be getting our basics in order and recruiting better. 2021 looks more realistic for finals charge but if we can progress a big group of youth and make them solid contributors and a few jump up and show star factor I will be happy.

 

[plugger66]

Perfectly put, Scrappy!
I felt that my fragile bubble of hope has just burst

Never mind, I'm nothing if optimistic and hope, that in this case, Pluggs will be proven incorrect.
If there's no hope, what do we (Saints) tragics have left???

I hope I’m wrong. I don’t think it’s negative to say what I believe to be true. I was told I was negative for saying Bruce and Steven will only get second rounders. I was positive. Jack got a third. It was funny reading we just won’t let either go if we don’t get firsts. I kept saying we won’t. I kept getting told I was wrong and I was. I don’t do it to say posters are wrong. I do it because I honestly believe most things I read and hear and in marsh case see. We have had 2 coaches who haven’t tried him as a mid in the seconds let alone the firsts. And I think it’s totally unfair on him if he plays in the seniors to try him there. Said the same about battle in the preseason and what happens. Can’t even get a game in any position because he struggled in a position he isn’t comfortable with.

 

[gringo2011]

I hope I’m wrong. I don’t think it’s negative to say what I believe to be true. I was told I was negative for saying Bruce and Steven will only get second rounders. I was positive. Jack got a third. It was funny reading we just won’t let either go if we don’t get firsts. I kept saying we won’t. I kept getting told I was wrong and I was. I don’t do it to say posters are wrong. I do it because I honestly believe most things I read and hear and in marsh case see. We have had 2 coaches who haven’t tried him as a mid in the seconds let alone the firsts. And I think it’s totally unfair on him if he plays in the seniors to try him there. Said the same about battle in the preseason and what happens. Can’t even get a game in any position because he struggled in a position he isn’t comfortable with.

All that shows is that being a Saints fan is a blood sport. Erring on the negative makes you right most of the time recently, it gets painful though. Yes, I can see the irony.

 

[plugger66]

All that shows is that being a Saints fan is a blood sport. Erring on the negative makes you right most of the time recently, it gets painful though. Yes, I can see the irony.

It’s not negative if it happens. It’s realistic. I actually don’t buy all this why us stuff. We can be successful as any club. Just because it happened in the past it doesn’t mean it will happen in the future.

 

[Crusty Undies]

No, we have too many rucks. Currently 4 on the list.

And too many KPDs.
Currently 5 on the list.

We have 1 KPF. Ming
You could argue Josh Battle, but he's just as easily the 6th KPD too.

I'm talking list balance here, not best 22..

KPFs: battle, membrey, king.
Can play tall fwd: Marshall, Ryder, Howard, Carlisle.

There's a reason Bruce was considered excess and it wasn't to make space for Ben King. It was because we have too many tall forwards. And before you come out with the "membrey isn't kpf". He's our no1 target, plays like a tall and cops the oppo's best defender most weeks.

 

[Enclosed_Animal]

I will be so disappointed if Ratts coaching setups just continue on from what Richardson was doing and the North game smelt the same.

I'm prepared to give it time.

But playing Robbo as a KPD, not selecting Battle and not putting a tag on Cunnington in the last didn't exactly fill me with confidence.

Most importantly, we really need to fix that backline mix ASAP. Been horrible for years, and didn't look any better when the heat was on rd.1

Lets just hope the close loss exposed these issues, rather than scraping home and simply papering over the cracks.

That said, if Hammill and Sexton have wound up on Job-seeker instead of Job-keeper I'm not sure that would be the worst outcome

 

[The_Steadier]

I'm prepared to give it time.

But playing Robbo as a KPD, not selecting Battle and not putting a tag on Cunnington in the last didn't exactly fill me with confidence.

Most importantly, we really need to fix that backline mix ASAP. Been horrible for years, and didn't look any better rd.1

Lets just hope the close loss exposed these issues, rather than scraping home and simply papering over the cracks.

Our backline was having praise rightly heaped on it by everyone- including the media, in the first 6 rounds of last year.

The mix was perfect with the emergence of wilkie, geary in top form, battle looking fantastic at chb etc....

That was with robbo and carlisle unavailable.

It was always going to create a headache when those 2 were back in the mix particularly because despite their large size difference... carlisle and robbo actually play their best football in the same spot- loose, intercept defender at chb.

Which battle has also shown he can be a gun at.

So with 3 guys talls (robbo isnt agile enough at ground level to be a small def), who all play best in 1 spot and wilkie forcing himself to be selected....
Plan A seems to be jake as loose, intercept chb, then trying to get robbo to play as a more accountable 'tall' defender and get battle to become some sort of wingman etc.

I personally think trying to turn robbo into more of an accountable defender is worth doing this year because:
A. I don't think we are in the frame for finals, and therefore should use this year for plenty of experimentation.
B. If carlilse stays, reality is that he is not gonna get his preferred spot as loose intercept defender back.... because at their best jake does it slightly better
C. The alternate to robbo having a more lockdown role is jake having a more lockdown, accountable role. That is no good because jake is poor 1 on 1.

The experiment with battle on the wing is a bridge too far though for me- especially with him off contract.
Battle needs a permanent forward line spot created for him, perhaps with shorter quarters this year- it should be at ryders expense.

 

[Diehard Saint]

I hope I’m wrong. I don’t think it’s negative to say what I believe to be true. I was told I was negative for saying Bruce and Steven will only get second rounders. I was positive. Jack got a third. It was funny reading we just won’t let either go if we don’t get firsts. I kept saying we won’t. I kept getting told I was wrong and I was. I don’t do it to say posters are wrong. I do it because I honestly believe most things I read and hear and in marsh case see. We have had 2 coaches who haven’t tried him as a mid in the seconds let alone the firsts. And I think it’s totally unfair on him if he plays in the seniors to try him there. Said the same about battle in the preseason and what happens. Can’t even get a game in any position because he struggled in a position he isn’t comfortable with.

Don’t take what I said too seriously, it wasn’t a dig at you.

I know you as a very realistic, pragmatic poster, leaning a little to the opposite way that I do - and I’m not talking politics.

Me? I figure real life is the time to be realistic - In my sport I want to dream a little

 

[ScrappyDo]

I'm prepared to give it time.

But playing Robbo as a KPD, not selecting Battle and not putting a tag on Cunnington in the last didn't exactly fill me with confidence.

Most importantly, we really need to fix that backline mix ASAP. Been horrible for years, and didn't look any better rd.1

Lets just hope the close loss exposed these issues, rather than scraping home and simply papering over the cracks.

That said, if Hammill and Sexton wound up on Job-seeker instead of Job-keeper I'm not sure that would be the worst outcome

I'll give Ratts a break about not tagging Cunners. They wanted to let Steele off the leash this year so backtracking on that in the first game would have been unpalatable.

 

[pebblesofsand]

North scored 56 points - don't think defence was the problem. Howard, Geary and Wilkie defensive, Carlisle Robbo and Long more attacking.

 

[Enclosed_Animal]

I'll give Ratts a break about not tagging Cunners. They wanted to let Steele off the leash this year so backtracking on that in the first game would have been unpalatable.

Respectfully disagree.

Completely take your point on being consistant with Steele. However, I see no reason why Dunstan, Hanners, Clarke, Jones or Ross couldn't be asked to sacrifice their game and put a hard tag on Cunnington. Even Geary would have been worth a try

Hell Bartel had just won a Brownlow and was still asked to give up his game and do nothing but tag Lenny for 3 quarters. Why? Because he had to for the good of the team. I see no reason why it needed to be a specialist tagger and one of our other mids (or army of small backmen) couldn't play a permanent shutdown role on Cunnington. Its not like they could get near the ball for a quarter and a half anyway

 

[ScrappyDo]

Respectfully disagree.

Completely take your point on being consistant with Steele. However, I see no reason why Dunstan, Hanners, Clarke, Jones or Ross couldn't be asked to sacrifice their game and put a hard tag on Cunnington. Even Geary would have been worth a try

Hell Bartel had just won a Brownlow and was still asked to give up his game and do nothing but tag Lenny for 3 quarters. Why? Because he had to for the good of the team. I see no reason why it needed to be a specialist tagger and one of our other mids (or army of small backmen) couldn't play a permanent shutdown role on Cunnington. Its not like they could get near the ball for a quarter and a half anyway

I take your point but you're talking about GF contenders there not our current situation.
I think we've got to commit to a new way, which is a case of potentially a case of one step backwards two steps forward.

After Richo, I'm happy to give Ratts a year to mold hit team..

 

[mightymalaka]

Dreaming is all Saints fans have!
Realism is not our friend!

And Ben Cunnington can go and get F'd!

 

[mightymalaka]

I take your point but you're talking about GF contenders there not our current situation.
I think we've got to commit to a new way, which is a case of potentially a case of one step backwards two steps forward.

After Richo, I'm happy to give Ratts a year to mold hit team..

Nice psychedelics Scrappy!
It's a pleasant distraction my friend!

One step forward. 3 steps sideways!
Should call yourself Scrappy Ross!

 

[Impatient Saint]

I'll give Ratts a break about not tagging Cunners. They wanted to let Steele off the leash this year so backtracking on that in the first game would have been unpalatable.

He did say that as did Richo the year before so I can understand him backing in Steele, but I think 1 quarter of lock down footy wouldnt hurt or at least send someone else to him.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

No, we have too many rucks. Currently 4 on the list.

And too many KPDs.
Currently 5 on the list.

We have 1 KPF. Ming
You could argue Josh Battle, but he's just as easily the 6th KPD too.

I'm talking list balance here, not best 22..

Rucks: 5. Marshall - Main. Ryder - Main ,but will retire this year or next. Abbott - Very good depth. Alabakis and Bell - Prospective.
If the first three go down , i'd rather play Howard in the ruck than Alabakis, but its decent depth.
Unfortunately we won't know how Alabakis is going by the end of the year.

KPD: Brown - retiring soon. Howard. Carlisle. Joyce Clavarino - as per Alabakis no way to evaluate him.
I'm happy that we have enough.

We had good reports about Jack Mayo, but he won't be playing footy this year.
These sorts of players will be the hardest hit.
There is almost a case to suggest that the AFL should allow extended rookie lists for 2021 , so that those who had a chance, can have an opportunity to stake their claim.

Mayo : Recruited 2019 mid-season. Performed well forward, and on a wing in VFL. May well be de-listed at end of year.
Austen : Struggled with injury, won't get a chance to prove whether he can
Alabakis : I guess the club should know from training if he is getting better.
Joyce : Has talent but needs to develop his skills, won't have opportunity.
McKenzie : Might as well quit now.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

He did say that as did Richo the year before so I can understand him backing in Steele, but I think 1 quarter of lock down footy wouldnt hurt or at least send someone else to him.

Surely some of our others could run a tag.
Even Geary could do a midfield tag, Paton could perform his normal role.

 

[pebblesofsand]

Rucks: 5. Marshall - Main. Ryder - Main ,but will retire this year or next. Abbott - Very good depth. Alabakis and Bell - Prospective.
If the first three go down , i'd rather play Howard in the ruck than Alabakis, but its decent depth.
Unfortunately we won't know how Alabakis is going by the end of the year.

KPD: Brown - retiring soon. Howard. Carlisle. Joyce Clavarino - as per Alabakis no way to evaluate him.
I'm happy that we have enough.

We had good reports about Jack Mayo, but he won't be playing footy this year.
These sorts of players will be the hardest hit.
There is almost a case to suggest that the AFL should allow extended rookie lists for 2021 , so that those who had a chance, can have an opportunity to stake their claim.

Mayo : Recruited 2019 mid-season. Performed well forward, and on a wing in VFL. May well be de-listed at end of year.
Austen : Struggled with injury, won't get a chance to prove whether he can
Alabakis : I guess the club should know from training if he is getting better.
Joyce : Has talent but needs to develop his skills, won't have opportunity.
McKenzie : Might as well quit now.

You will need to add quite a few to that list if the list numbers are to be cut substantially. There will be some very tough choices. It will be nasty Brown, Geary definitely finish up but players like Carlisle and Savage may go from earning a lot to not playing at all.

Then having to decide between Parker, Hind, Lonie, Paton, Bytel Langlands Phillips etc Clav, Austen Joyce etc etc all based on very little game time.