List Mgmt. 2020 Trade Thread - Part I

[ScrappyDo]

I think Steele should have had the brains to think hay this guy is getting a bit of steam up here I might just put the breaks on him for a bit. This is what we lack leadership and maturity

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Very true.
Unless the decision was out of his hands.
Since Steele had an assigned roll to play, maybe the Capitan or VC could have stepped up and done something about it.
Or maybe Ratts has committed the team to a particular course and he's of the mind the players need to learn to win using his method, end of story. .
We can't honestly surmise that moving Steele to Cunnington wasn't mentioned in the coaches box. So the only option available is that they decided not to make the move, for reasons known only to themselves.
Now that I'm recovered from another disgusting loss to Norff, l can say that l only hope the boys spent the last 8 weeks looking hard into the mirror, and that the noises from Ratts about selection changes is music to my ears.

 

[Premium]

Very true.
Unless the decision was out of his hands.
Since Steele had an assigned roll to play, maybe the Capitan or VC could have stepped up and done something about it.
Or maybe Ratts has committed the team to a particular course and he's of the mind the players need to learn to win using his method, end of story. .
We can't honestly surmise that moving Steele to Cunnington wasn't mentioned in the coaches box. So the only option available is that they decided not to make the move, for reasons known only to themselves.
Now that I'm recovered from another disgusting loss to Norff, l can say that l only hope the boys spent the last 8 weeks looking hard into the mirror, and that the noises from Ratts about selection changes is music to my ears.

The loss against North was shocking and I just hope it was just a learning curve - now I fully expect our next game we have Battle and Carlisle playing and go into the game with one ruckman.

Having a read of the paper and they are saying because of salary cap cuts some players will be asking to be moved - this could well help us secure Ben King and hopefully a elite midfielder.
No doubt we will need to offload a couple players to fit them in and I sure the brains trust would already be working on it.
Players who have expiring contracts
Geary
Carlisle
Battle
Steele
Paton
Savage
Austin
Marsh
Brown
Hind
Clavarino
Mayo
Jones
Abbott
Bytel
Phillips
Bell
Langlands

 

[ScrappyDo]

The loss against North was shocking and I just hope it was just a learning curve - now I fully expect our next game we have Battle and Carlisle playing and go into the game with one ruckman.

Having a read of the paper and they are saying because of salary cap cuts some players will be asking to be moved - this could well help us secure Ben King and hopefully a elite midfielder.
No doubt we will need to offload a couple players to fit them in and I sure the brains trust would already be working on it.
Players who have expiring contracts
Geary
Carlisle
Battle
Steele
Paton
Savage
Austin
Marsh
Brown
Hind
Clavarino
Mayo
Jones
Abbott
Bytel
Phillips
Bell
Langlands

Unfortunately delisting bottom end players won't do a lot for our SC position.
Without knowing exactly who is on the big bucks l think it will be reasonably ok for us with:
Stuv
Gears
Brown
Carlisle
Robbo
Savage
either moved on or given a hefty pay cut.

 

[Premium]

Unfortunately delisting bottom end players won't do a lot for our SC position.
Without knowing exactly who is on the big bucks l think it will be reasonably ok for us with:
Stuv
Gears
Brown
Carlisle
Robbo
Savage
either moved on or given a hefty pay cut.

true

 

[The_Steadier]

Unfortunately delisting bottom end players won't do a lot for our SC position.
Without knowing exactly who is on the big bucks l think it will be reasonably ok for us with:
Stuv
Gears
Brown
Carlisle
Robbo
Savage
either moved on or given a hefty pay cut.

I don't think we need to delist or give paycuts to anyone to be in a great salary cap position.

(Based off media reports) The only large contracts we have are Hill, Gresh, Hanners and Billings, and even then- those aren't obscene.

If there is stars looking to not take a covid enforced paycut, my estimations based on the in's and outs from the last few years say we could accommodate say a ben king, josh kelly combo. (Or equivalent)

Kelly and gaff will be interesting ones to watch.

WCE and the giants were maybe too clever for their own good going with these contracts that the player can unilaterally break.

PS, surely carlisle is gone if ben king were in the frame- out with the old, in with the new.

 

[plugger66]

I don't think we need to delist or give paycuts to anyone to be in a great salary cap position.

(Based off media reports) The only large contracts we have are Hill, Gresh, Hanners and Billings, and even then- those aren't obscene.

If there is stars looking to not take a covid enforced paycut, my estimations based on the in's and outs from the last few years say we could accommodate say a ben king, josh kelly combo. (Or equivalent)

Kelly and gaff will be interesting ones to watch.

WCE and the giants were maybe too clever for their own good going with these contracts that the player can unilaterally break.

PS, surely carlisle is gone if ben king were in the frame- out with the old, in with the new.

From my understanding you will not be able to break a contract because you had to take the COVID drop. Every single player will take the same percentage drop going by what Pickering said about buddy on radio the other day.

 

[#gosaintas]

Really. We kicked ordinary in the first half but lead by a lot. When cunners got on top we lost the game.

We came out guns blazing in the 3rd qtr. Had 4 shots on goal early. Missed them all. Goes up the other end and Nth get a goal and our team of squibs drop their bundle. There's just no leadership or backbone to this team. Badly missing Lenny and Roo for their steel as much as for their talent.

 

[ScrappyDo]

I don't think we need to delist or give paycuts to anyone to be in a great salary cap position.

(Based off media reports) The only large contracts we have are Hill, Gresh, Hanners and Billings, and even then- those aren't obscene.

If there is stars looking to not take a covid enforced paycut, my estimations based on the in's and outs from the last few years say we could accommodate say a ben king, josh kelly combo. (Or equivalent)

Kelly and gaff will be interesting ones to watch.

WCE and the giants were maybe too clever for their own good going with these contracts that the player can unilaterally break.

PS, surely carlisle is gone if ben king were in the frame- out with the old, in with the new.

All things being equal I'd agree, but we've been over paying GOPs just to make minimum spend.

We will be over paying Doogle and Jones I've little doubt, add Seb, Jake, Gears, Stuv and maybe Paddy still and probably Membry. It all adds up.

I think it will be straightened out this year and next, but l also believe that we likely nudging maximum cap this year..

 

[plugger66]

We came out guns blazing in the 3rd qtr. Had 4 shots on goal early. Missed them all. Goes up the other end and Nth get a goal and our team of squibs drop their bundle. There's just no leadership or backbone to this team. Badly missing Lenny and Roo for their steel as much as for their talent.

I reckon talent would be the major reason we would miss them. We need a couple of stars. Hopefully they are on the list.

 

[CaptainRisky]

I don't think we need to delist or give paycuts to anyone to be in a great salary cap position.

(Based off media reports) The only large contracts we have are Hill, Gresh, Hanners and Billings, and even then- those aren't obscene.

If there is stars looking to not take a covid enforced paycut, my estimations based on the in's and outs from the last few years say we could accommodate say a ben king, josh kelly combo. (Or equivalent)

Kelly and gaff will be interesting ones to watch.

WCE and the giants were maybe too clever for their own good going with these contracts that the player can unilaterally break.

PS, surely carlisle is gone if ben king were in the frame- out with the old, in with the new.

Unless you work for the club how could you possibly know our salary cap space ?

 

[mightymalaka]

Unless you work for the club how could you possibly know our salary cap space ?

Going on past history it has seemed the club itself didn't really know our own salary cap space!
Too many ordinary players were way over paid for what they were producing!

 

[Impatient Saint]

I think a rule of player worth: is if they were delisted by our club would they be picked up by another. We have far too many on our list that would fall into that category starting with some, people have in our starting 22. Dunstan & Lonie come to mind...

 

[chris_h_11]

Any talks of trades at this stage is nothing more than media BS, just to give them something to write about.

There are so many unanswered questions regarding the 2021 season, clubs have no idea of the parameters they need to work within - what's happening with the draft, what's the cap going to be, what happening with the TAC cup and State leagues, what's the list size going to look like etc.

David Rath was asked about lists in his Facebook video, he thought the AFL would reduce the total number over a few years (i think he said 3 years??) to soften the blow and allow contracts to be honoured, so we're not gonna have to cut 15 guys straight away if we don't want to.

 

[gringo2011]

Going on past history it has seemed the club itself didn't really know our own salary cap space!
Too many ordinary players were way over paid for what they were producing!

To me the guys who owe us are players like Carlisle, Gresham and Billings. These guys are probably on more than some elite players like Dangerfield yet offer very little as far as value goes. In round one Gresham was kicking like a 5 year old, Billings coasted, Carlisle didn't play and Hill looked like he was resting for his media commitments.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

I think a rule of player worth: is if they were delisted by our club would they be picked up by another. We have far too many on our list that would fall into that category starting with some, people have in our starting 22. Dunstan & Lonie come to mind...

Thats what you think , others think differently.

 

[Impatient Saint]

I think Steele should have had the brains to think hay this guy is getting a bit of steam up here I might just put the breaks on him for a bit. This is what we lack leadership and maturity

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Totally agree if he doesnt have the footy smarts to make that move himself during a game, Richo was correct re Steele he is a follower/tagger only. He doesnt have the nous or ability to become a sole ball winner. Ratten needs to start looking for other ball winning options and send Steele back to a lock down role each week.

 

[plugger66]

I think a rule of player worth: is if they were delisted by our club would they be picked up by another. We have far too many on our list that would fall into that category starting with some, people have in our starting 22. Dunstan & Lonie come to mind...

Ok

 

[Enclosed_Animal]

To me the guys who owe us are players like Carlisle, Gresham and Billings. These guys are probably on more than some elite players like Dangerfield yet offer very little as far as value goes. In round one Gresham was kicking like a 5 year old, Billings coasted, Carlisle didn't play and Hill looked like he was resting for his media commitments.

Gresh is only 22 years old. Played 4 seasons - 2 on a rookie contract which is SFA $$.

Has played 82 games out of a possible 89. Got a rising star, and was picked in the U22 team more than once. Been our leading goalkicker while still a teenager, and was the youngest player picked for State of Origin.

On greatly reduced midfield minutes he averaged more than 20 disposals last year, was top 4 at the club for clearances and contested possessions and top 2 for inside 50s. Went close to matching the output of our VC, with much less opportunity. That while still kicking more goals than anyone excluding Bruce or Membery, and being the leader at the club for goal assists. Then he did his PCL round 1, after which the team performance went off a cliff.

Seriously mate, WTF does Gresh owe the club? If anything, he is underpaid. And really underappreciated in here

 

[mightymalaka]

Gresh is only 22 years old. Played 4 seasons - 2 on a rookie contract which is SFA $$.

Has played 82 games out of a possible 89. Got a rising star, and was picked in the U22 team more than once. Been our leading goalkicker while still a teenager, and was picked for a state of origin game at 21 (youngest player out there).

On greatly reduced midfield minutes he averaged more than 20 disposals last year, was top 4 at the club for clearances and contested possessions and top 2 for inside 50s. Went close to matching the output of our VC, with much less opportunity. That while still kicking more goals than anyone excluding Bruce or Membery, and being the leader at the club for goal assists. Then he did his PCL round 1, after which the team performance went off a cliff.

Seriously mate, WTF does Gresh owe the club? If anything, he is underpaid. And really underappreciated in here

Too true! He is a jet and is marked very harshly based off the excellent standards he set as a youngster! In my opinion he is our best player!

Billings, Ross, and even Carlisle are a different story though! For what is expected from them, they have not delivered much bang for their buck!

 

[gringo2011]

Gresh is only 22 years old. Played 4 seasons - 2 on a rookie contract which is SFA $$.

Has played 82 games out of a possible 89. Got a rising star, and was picked in the U22 team more than once. Been our leading goalkicker while still a teenager, and was picked for a state of origin game at 21 (youngest player out there).

On greatly reduced midfield minutes he averaged more than 20 disposals last year, was top 4 at the club for clearances and contested possessions and top 2 for inside 50s. Went close to matching the output of our VC, with much less opportunity. That while still kicking more goals than anyone excluding Bruce or Membery, and being the leader at the club for goal assists. Then he did his PCL round 1, after which the team performance went off a cliff.

Seriously mate, WTF does Gresh owe the club? If anything, he is underpaid. And really underappreciated in here

I think he’s failed to take the next step. He’s got all the potential in the world but careers come and go with only the guns living up to potential. We have had a decade go past with promising careers ending and another crew coming in. Our best paid players need to play like the best at the good clubs. St Kilda fans will accept mediocrity more than anyone but surely the players need to take responsibility at some point. I’m sick of potential, another 10 years will go by and we will still be wondering when it’s all going to click.

 

[Enclosed_Animal]

Too true! He is a jet and is marked very harshly based off the excellent standards he set as a youngster! In my opinion he is our best player!

Billings, Ross, and even Carlisle are a different story though! For what is expected from them, they have not delivered much bang for their buck!

I would challenge you to some degree on Billings, but can see how you make the argument. The fact he was second in the brownlow about 1/3rd of the way through last year tells me he will benefit more than anyone as we improve. Agree completely on Carlisle and Ross.

We certainly agree Gresham belongs nowhere near this discussion

I think he’s failed to take the next step.

The next step? Gresham was still 21 at the end of last year.

Gresh has kicked more goals than Milney, and has better midfield stats than Lenny did at the same age.

Outside of winning our B+F or being AA by 21 (Roo / Luke Ball territory), WTF else can he have done so far?

The next step puts him in Robbie Gray territory, who is about the best player in the comp on his day ...

 

[gringo2011]

I would challenge you to some degree on Billings, but can see how you make the argument. The fact he was second in the brownlow about 1/3rd of the way through last year tells me he will benefit more than anyone as we improve. Agree completely on Carlisle and Ross.

We certainly agree Gresham belongs nowhere near this discussion

The next step? Gresham was still 21 at the end of last year.

Gresh has kicked more goals than Milney, and has better midfield stats than Lenny did at the same age.

Outside of winning our B+F or being AA by 21 (Roo / Luke Ball territory), WTF else can he have done so far?

The next step puts him in Robbie Gray territory, who is about the best player in the comp on his day ...

He's got the ability, he needs to bank his talent still. If we don't want to stay shit for ever these guys need to step up. I'm sick of accepting being crap. Cripps and Bont were key players at his age.

 

[Ricochet]

Very true.
Unless the decision was out of his hands.
Since Steele had an assigned roll to play, maybe the Capitan or VC could have stepped up and done something about it.
Or maybe Ratts has committed the team to a particular course and he's of the mind the players need to learn to win using his method, end of story. .
We can't honestly surmise that moving Steele to Cunnington wasn't mentioned in the coaches box. So the only option available is that they decided not to make the move, for reasons known only to themselves.
Now that I'm recovered from another disgusting loss to Norff, l can say that l only hope the boys spent the last 8 weeks looking hard into the mirror, and that the noises from Ratts about selection changes is music to my ears.

If that the case it shows that the boys don't have a winning mentality if something needs to be done to win then do it do you think if roo, hodge or Maxwell could see what is needed to win the game they would get it done Wether the coach said not too didn't bother them they would just deal with consequences

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[stavro#4]

Ollie Wines.

We have interest.

 

[gringo2011]

Ollie Wines.

We have interest.

Is it just me or does he seem like a moron who trouble seems to find?