List Mgmt. 2020 Trade Thread - Part II

[Joffaboy]

Agree with Joff, Billings is woeful. Seriously woeful.


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Can see why his family are Essendon supporters, he is such anEssendon player.

Has the name and 'is good on paper' but never lives up to the hype.

 

[kernelT]

Lonie won't be playing next year with some more ins. He has some good games but he also has some horrid ones. If he can get a good contract elsewhere all the best to him.

I’d rather he’s forced out of our side and stay on the list than give him to a rival for a packet of chips.

No wonder the dogs are keen, if he’d played a similar game for them last week they probably win the game.

 

[MrFoster]

FB: Long Howard Paton
HB: Coffield (Carlisle) Wilkie
C: Hill Steele Battle
HF: Billings Membrey Gresham
FF: Butler King (Ryder)
R: Marshall Jones Clark
I: Ross Sinclair (Hanneberry) (geary)

I reckon thats our best 22 for the next 5 years and we should be playing finals. (if u dont like my battle wing just swap him with billings)
That is a young team and all have room for self improvement as well as improved team chemistry.

The guys bracketed are obviously the old guys, and i could add Ross in there although he should be good to play another 3/4 years.
So these are the Positions I think we most NEED to look at recruiting.

Obviously MIDS MIDS MIDS can never have too many especially if the can go fwd.
DO we have some good ones coming up in Bytel and Byrnes? get some more anyway, best available, our depth there was exposed this year.

If Ryder only has a year or 2 left we need a backup plan.
i think most were against the ryder experiment taking Romas time but he has been a revalation!
If we could get that 2 metre peter he might be a good option to start FWD and chop out in the ruck?

I think a CHB needs to be top of our priority list.
Did we win any games big Jake was out?
missed him last night.
im guessing Clav and Austin arent up to it? otherwise they would have played in his absence?
If we cant Get someone as good or better than Jake as a long term replacement, we at least need a quality role player incase Jake or Dougs are injured next year.

Think mids should be the priority.. Battle to play forward as he is a natural forward.. so forward should be Membrey, Battle and King. Marshall to lunch hit when not rucking.. we don’t need another lumbering forward when we just bomb it forward. We need dominant mids who can take pressure off guys like Jones/Steele, so we can bring other mids into the game and use their strength.. Hill was never going to win the ball, so if we can’t get the ball to him in open spaces, he is ineffective.. If we got Taranto and Crouch (probably will only get one), watch Hill flourish on the wing.

 

[Dr Spaceman]

Re Dodoro and Caldwell

Good luck convincing players to come to Essendon on the basis it is a great workplace and is on the path to success, whilst at the same time players who are actually living the experience are leaving in droves on the basis Essendon is a terrible workplace and is on the path to total failure

 

[MrFoster]

Can see why his family are Essendon supporters, he is such anEssendon player.

Has the name and 'is good on paper' but never lives up to the hype.

Should trade him to Essendon then, we’ll take Zac Merrett or a first round picks

 

[BrutThough]

You obviously rate him a lot higher than me
IMO at his best he is a good player at his worst he is very average
Has he ever made AA ? won a B&F ? That's what the most damaging players in the comp do
Been no hate, just footy discussion on making our list best
I Support the jumper more than the player

There aren't many players like him who have had multiple performances with mid 20s disposals and multiple goals. Especially not many who have done it in poor sides.

Match winners don't grow on trees but Billings is one. Trading that away doesn't make us any better.

 

[Gosaints12]

The actual number doesn't matter- because current contracts can always be juggled around with revisions to either front or backload them to fit new recruits in.

FYI it's actually basically impossible for any team to literally have 800k spare in their salary cap.
The difference between paying the 95% salary cap minimum and to 100% salary cap maximum is only about 600k.

But of course with proper accounting and planning, anything is possible.

For instance the tigers won a flag and of course had one of, if not the tightest cap in the comp- didn't stop them signing tom lynch on circa a million bucks a year.

If you are prepared to offer long contracts to guys you want to trade in, salary cap space is fairly irrelevant unless your trying to sign multiple stars all at once.

That’s factoring in the payouts of McCartin, (500k) and Young, (200k)


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[Mowman]

I’d rather he’s forced out of our side and stay on the list than give him to a rival for a packet of chips.

No wonder the dogs are keen, if he’d played a similar game for them last week they probably win the game.

Would rather move on players when they have some value than leaving it to they are worthless

 

[Saint_Dos]

You obviously rate him a lot higher than me
IMO at his best he is a good player at his worst he is very average
Has he ever made AA ? won a B&F ? That's what the most damaging players in the comp do
Been no hate, just footy discussion on making our list best
I Support the jumper more than the player

But as was said at his best he is a match winner. Unfortunately we have not seen him consistently at his best.
Hence no AA or B&F but I would think will get a few votes here and there this year.
If he kicked the goals he had last night (which he really should have) then he is amongst our best.

The big issue for our outside mids (Hill included) as they have not got as much of the ball in space as we would have liked this year.
I think we keep him and he continues to build in that outside mid and hff role. He is a good kick and when everything starts (including his kicking at goal) connecting he will be a big part of it.

 

[MrFoster]

At his best he is one of the most dangerous and damaging outside players in the comp. And his worst he is still a good player.

His form dropped off this year once he positioned kept being moved around every game, and he never regain his form from the first half of the season where he was very good. And even in this form drop off, he had standout quarters where he was trying to drag us across the line.

Last night wasn't his best game. Those two shots on goal he missed were very costly. They go through the goals and he would have been one of our best. They didn't, but he was still far from being one of our worst. And the amount of hate he has go today is completely ridiculous and unwarranted.

We dont improve by trading out match winning players. Or players universally recognised as our hardest workers and the person who sets the stands off the field. We don't improve by trading someone who Ratten described on Thursday as the person who brought together and drove the group to push themselves over the shut down period.

Sorry, you are not talking about Billings.. What you are describing is Hill. At best, Hill is a line breaking; running machine with skill to burn.. We’re wasting him because we don’t have a dominant midfield that can give him the ball in space. Billings is a half forward who goes to our backline to get cheap possesions and does nothing constructive with it apart from a side way chip or a long bomb down the line.. Lonie has more impact on games than Billings. Players should be judged on their impact, not possessions only, especially when they do very little with the possesions.

 

[The Boar]

Would let Billings go to Essendon for a 1st Round Pick following Daniher trade IF we could convince Taranto and Caldwell to come over.

Out: Billings
In: 1st RP

Out: 2x 1sts (and change)
In: Caldwell and Taranto.

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[BrutThough]

Sorry, you are not talking about Billings.. What you are describing is Hill. At best, Hill is a line breaking; running machine with skill to burn.. We’re wasting him because we don’t have a dominant midfield that can give him the ball in space. Billings is a half forward who goes to our backline to get cheap possesions and does nothing constructive with it apart from a side way chip or a long bomb down the line.. Lonie has more impact on games than Billings. Players should be judged on their impact, not possessions only, especially when they do very little with the possesions.

No, I am talking about Billings.

And I am in shock about how Billings has turned into the whipping boy overnight with some completely ridiculous assessments about him as a player today.

 

[Ricmel]

Match winners don't grow on trees but Billings is one. Trading that away doesn't make us any better.

That comment makes no sense. Surely it depends what we are able to get for him?

I never understand this "untouchables" mentality that many footy supporters have. It is a business, part of being a good business (footy club) is being able to optimise your list and no player should be sacrosanct. If a deal could be done Max King for Kelly, Bontimpelli and Naughton - you do it.

Billings, at his cost, is an under performer and has been for a few years - does not have the impact on games that you would expect at his grade. If you can turn him into say, Taranto, then you do it.

 

[kernelT]

Would rather move on players when they have some value than leaving it to they are worthless

I don’t rate a 3rd rounder as value for a player who just played a big part in us winning a final.
I don’t think trading Lonie our gets us a better player in return... and I can think of a dozen players I’d prefer to move on if it is about list space.

 

[MrFoster]

Happily trade Billings and Lonie

I would add Gresham if those 3 get us Taranto and Caldwell.

 

[Mowman]

But as was said at his best he is a match winner. Unfortunately we have not seen him consistently at his best.
Hence no AA or B&F but I would think will get a few votes here and there this year.
If he kicked the goals he had last night (which he really should have) then he is amongst our best.

The big issue for our outside mids (Hill included) as they have not got as much of the ball in space as we would have liked this year.
I think we keep him and he continues to build in that outside mid and hff role. He is a good kick and when everything starts (including his kicking at goal) connecting he will be a big part of it.

That's the point
But he didn't kick those goals last night and he wasn't amongst our best
Over all his games how many matches has he won off his own boot ?

 

[Ducky Tie]

I was a week early but good to see we're giving a red hot crack.

 

[BrutThough]

That comment makes no sense. Surely it depends what we are able to get for him?

I never understand this "untouchables" mentality that many footy supporters have. It is a business, part of being a good business (footy club) is being able to optimise your list and no player should be sacrosanct. If a deal could be done Max King for Kelly, Bontimpelli and Naughton - you do it.

Billings, at his cost, is an under performer and has been for a few years - does not have the impact on games that you would expect at his grade. If you can turn him into say, Taranto, then you do it.

There are unrealistic scenarios where you would trade any player.

 

[BrutThough]

That's the point
But he didn't kick those goals last night and he wasn't amongst our best
Over all his games how many matches has he won off his own boot ?

Probably won more games for us off his own boot than any other player on our list right now, except maybe Gresham or Membrey with a few of his 4 goal bags.

 

[mighty_sainters]

I'd be keeping Billings no matter what, he will be the cream on top when we continue building into a regular top 8 team.

Really excited for trade period, what I don't want is any outgoing staff though (Roughead, Lethers, Gubby, Rath, etc)

 

[Ducky Tie]

The idea of trading out one of your best players because he hasn't reached the level people hoped for is so out of line with the idea of trying to get better each year. We finished sixth this year. Next year we want to finish top four. How does trading away a 25 year old player with multiple top five b&f finishes for a speculative draft pick improve us. Say we get a pick in the teens for him. If we're lucky, we'll maybe replace a good player with a good player after a few years development.

Billings' form from halfway through 2018 to halfway through 2020 was very good. Not superstar stuff, but a consistent top five player for us. He had an average back end to the season. I'm sure that Ratts will be working out how to make sure we get the best out of him, rather than just throwing the towell in and getting rid of him.

 

[jwikked]

No, I am talking about Billings.

And I am in shock about how Billings has turned into the whipping boy overnight with some completely ridiculous assessments about him as a player today.

It's not overnight, it's been constant. He's never really shown what he is supposedly capable of. He has a few good games, but not consistent. I think we should move him on while he has some currency so we can improve the team overall.

If Billings didn't play this year, we'd have won the same amount of games. He just doesn't offer much.
Not a surprise people are saying this after last nights game. It's the end of the season, time to make changes.

 

[Joffaboy]

No, I am talking about Billings.

And I am in shock about how Billings has turned into the whipping boy overnight with some completely ridiculous assessments about him as a player today.

Not overnight. He has been at the Saints 6 years and many are out of patience.

Just hasn't developed. Best game was against the Dogs 5 years ago.

 

[gringo2011]

You obviously rate him a lot higher than me
IMO at his best he is a good player at his worst he is very average
Has he ever made AA ? won a B&F ? That's what the most damaging players in the comp do
Been no hate, just footy discussion on making our list best
I Support the jumper more than the player

To me he isn't a star but he's good enough. If you could swap him for a more useful player like Merrett it's a good trade but in the open market he's probably worth a second round pick and he adds more than his replacement would in the short term. He's worthy of a list spot and we need depth ideally, hopefully him and Hill take a pay cut to look at getting more players in. Billings on form over 5 yers deserves to be in or 6th to 10th best paid players not in the elite band of pay packets. It's a left over from Richo era where we had to make good players rich to keep them.

Like Carlisle I think his next pay packet will push him way back down unless you get a freak deal like Polec got from nowhere.

 

[bennymc7]

If people reckon Billings is a problem I think they're missing the real issue...

Our inside mids got absolutely waxed last night.

Steele, Jones and Ross is a bottom 6 trio in the comp imo.

Gresham and Clark need to improve and that'll give us a significant boost there.

Caldwell would suit perfectly. We have to many small fwds and not enough mids.

If Butler, Lonie, Kent became Butler, Billings and a rotating mid all of a sudden we have the best smalls and a significantly improved midfield.

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