List Mgmt. 2020 Trade Thread - Part II

[Joffaboy]

The thing is only one team has matched an offer for a restricted free agent. And that was back when you guys lost Danger.

Adelaide didn't match, they traded upfront.

 

[buttons91]

You want to argue a pick upgrade in a draft where realistically anyone from like pick 5-30 could be a lucky dip?

there is no exposed form. So how do you argue the strength of a 5/6 pick upgrade when you don’t need the points either?? It’s stupid and a stupid point your making.

effectively you want them to challenge us to a deal to save face for supporters who knew months ago he was gone when they didn’t re-sign him.

The Crows do need the points, they have 3 players this year that will go onto their list via NGA or F/S. So yeah a 5 pick upgrade for them would be very handy.

 

[kernelT]

I think this is the trade period where gags needs to show a bit with a bit of a sharp edge.

Walking crouch to the PSD would be the type of ballsy move that would make clubs respect our openess to being fair at the trade table but not exploited.

Well I hope it doesn't come to that TBH, we can be sensible with Adelaide and let them know that our first just isn't in play… they can take a decent pick in 20 or risk getting nothing.

 

[puppy_dog7]

Adelaide didn't match, they traded upfront.

Ok, i stand corrected then. Either way, highly unlikely they'll match the offer. It's just Ricciuto beating his chest

 

[StCicatriz]

If that worked it wouldn't be free agency.
They have two choices.
They let him accept his free agency offer , or they give him an equivalent contract.
They can't force him to move if they give him a contract.

Once the FA offer is made there is no going backward and forward.

Huh?

Its within the rules and how its structured. Here's how it worked for crouch in order:
1) Adelaide offer him a contract and he re-signs,
2) Crouch seeks outside offers and nominates an opposition clubs contract he would like to leave for,
3) compensation is announced by the AFL,
4) Adelaide make the decision if they match the nominated contracted forcing it into the trade/draft scenario,
5) Adelaide and St kilda work on a trade,
6) if no trade is done Crouch goes into the draft.

 

[StCicatriz]

Well I hope it doesn't come to that TBH, we can be sensible with Adelaide and let them know that our first just isn't in play… they can take a decent pick in 20 or risk getting nothing.

And if they don't accept that? Then what?

 

[StCicatriz]

Ok, i stand corrected then. Either way, highly unlikely they'll match the offer. It's just Ricciuto beating his chest

I agree. Its utter stupidity to match if it comes out at pick 20.

 

[LiterallyNobody]

Huh?

Its within the rules and how its structured. Here's how it worked for crouch in order:
1) Adelaide offer him a contract and he re-signs,
2) Crouch seeks outside offers and nominates an opposition clubs contract he would like to leave for,
3) compensation is announced by the AFL,
4) Adelaide make the decision if they match the nominated contracted forcing it into the trade/draft scenario,
5) Adelaide and St kilda work on a trade,
6) if no trade is done Crouch goes into the draft.

I thought they can only trade not draft if it goes past FA.
Then again I know SFA so I could be wrong...

 

[kernelT]

The Crows do need the points, they have 3 players this year that will go onto their list via NGA or F/S. So yeah a 5 pick upgrade for them would be very handy.

Not our problem.

Pick 20 = 912 points FS / NGA
Pick 15 = 1112 points (pick 48 equivalent differential)
NO PICKS = 0 points

Would love to see Ricciuto explain to the board and members how they ended up losing a first pick for the sake of a 3rd rounder.

 

[LiterallyNobody]

Honestly all this is showing me is that AFL should scrap the concept of compensation of free agents.

The benefit of losing a free agent should be freeing of salary space.

Or they should just make this arbitrary formula more widely known.

and fairer.

I like the idea someone said about nominating their preferred state and then the winning state has bids from each team. At least equalisation is a little better then.

 

[kernelT]

And if they don't accept that? Then what?

I guess we could be filthy cheating kents like Cartlon… re-shuffle our entire cap, front load crouch and walk him via the PSD.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

He's not worth pick 2 but he's worth more than pick 20 so tell me why they don't match and force a trade? No way the saints don't trade for him. You don't commit to a player and then let him down. No one would ever want to go to the saints after that. The saints would have known the whole way that if we don't offer enough money, there is a chance the crows will match so I'm sure they are talking through their options.

We aren't letting him down.
We are saying Brad, you're a free agent, if you like to come to us we will give you THIS.
If he accepts it , because he's a restricted free agent , Crows have the opportunity to offer him the same THIS or more.
If Crows offered him that, he would be happy to stay there. They are then obliged to offer him a contract to that affect.

They can't force a trade. StKilda has never suggested they would be happy to pay him any draft pick, let alone pick one.

Either way, Brad is taken care of to his satisfaction.

 

[LiterallyNobody]

The Crows do need the points, they have 3 players this year that will go onto their list via NGA or F/S. So yeah a 5 pick upgrade for them would be very handy.

Well if they need points then surely the upgrade doesn’t make that much difference. We’re talking 20 to 15.... not like it’s the difference between 20 and 1.

 

[Strahany]

Honestly all this is showing me is that AFL should scrap the concept of compensation of free agents.

The benefit of losing a free agent should be freeing of salary space.

Freeing up salary cap space for a bottom team is meaningless - most are overpaying their current players to reach the 95% minimum spend of the cap.

If anything, freeing up more cap space could be detrimental because it means they have to overpay more players, which makes it harder to jettison these C grade players down the track since no club will take them on such large contracts.

If they remove or significantly drop the minimum spend, then salary cap space will be worth something. Until then, they need compensation.

 

[Joffaboy]

The Crows do need the points, they have 3 players this year that will go onto their list via NGA or F/S. So yeah a 5 pick upgrade for them would be very handy.

WTF are you even here for. This is a team forum, go to the main D&T board you clown Carlton plonker.

You are an idiot.

 

[Jay Beast]

So because no club has done it before it can't be done...? The Danger deal was a match without officially matching. Geelong knew the compo wouldn't satisfy the Crows and the Crows would have matched so cut out the middle man and got the trade done. Will probably be the same for Cameron and Crouch this year.

If they match...so be it. But they will also be on the hook.

 

[Winmar2Lockett]

So because no club has done it before it can't be done...? The Danger deal was a match without officially matching. Geelong knew the compo wouldn't satisfy the Crows and the Crows would have matched so cut out the middle man and got the trade done. Will probably be the same for Cameron and Crouch this year.

It won't be done. Stop wasting your and our time.

 

[Winmar2Lockett]

So.. Adelaide say to St Kilda - we will match the offer. Saints say to them, sorry we only wanted to pick up Brad if we didnt have to give up any picks and will be keeping pick 15.
Adelaide end up giving Brad a 5 year deal on heaps of coin, when they refused to offer him a deal in the first place. They then have a player signed for that period of time who openly doesnt want to be at the club, whilst embarking on a rebuild. All for the sake of 5 picks.
Whilst I'm not on the inner sanctum of a football club, I can't think of too many organisations in the world (sporting or non sporting) that would think that is a good idea.

And that is why clubs never match. Keeping a disgruntled player is poison... you get them out, take your pick and move on. All this posturing is just the Crows trying to make their supporters feel like they're fighting for the best deal.

 

[Tommy Wigs]

Whether true or not, thoughts? Not quite big fish to me!

 

[Winmar2Lockett]

I guess we could be filthy cheating kents like Cartlon… re-shuffle our entire cap, front load crouch and walk him via the PSD.

Too many clubs with massive space ahead of us (or behind us actually) to that unfortunately.

 

[St Neil]

Im honestly sick of banging my head against the wall with Crows supporters. As I have said over & over again the Crows will not match the offer because
1. They don’t want Brad
2. Not matching ensures a compensation pick is received & can be used for follow up negotiations. If Adel match, that pick 20 (compo) doesn’t exist.
Get the compo pick & then a backend deal may be completed by Saints & Crows. Plus player/s.

I laughed at that idiot on the Brad Crouch

5

Brad Crouch

Age

30

Ht

186cm

Wt

86kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

26.1

5star

K

12.1

4star

HB

14.0

5star

M

2.7

3star

T

5.5

5star

CL

5.0

5star

D

20.3

5star

K

11.1

4star

HB

9.1

5star

M

1.5

2star

T

3.9

5star

CL

4.6

5star

D

21.6

5star

K

10.0

4star

HB

11.6

5star

M

3.4

4star

T

4.2

5star

CL

2.6

5star

trade thread who said St Kilda have to cough up two 1st RDPs with the possibility of maybe getting a second back “to sweeten the deal”. And he kept repeating it. Some of these clowns live in a world of make believe.

Adelaide haven’t offered Crouch anything while St Kilda have fired in an offer. The Crows don’t want him. If they match then they are surreptitiously playing ducks and drakes. It would be unbelievably cynical considering how Crouch’s contract negotiations have festered.

Crouch could even decide to accept Adelaide’s offer and then the Crows are stuck. They won’t risk it and match our bid. If they do then we reconsider our position. Simples.

 

[Stewart66]

You want to argue a pick upgrade in a draft where realistically anyone from like pick 5-30 could be a lucky dip?

there is no exposed form. So how do you argue the strength of a 5/6 pick upgrade when you don’t need the points either?? It’s stupid and a stupid point your making.

effectively you want them to challenge us to a deal to save face for supporters who knew months ago he was gone when they didn’t re-sign him.

The more interesting question is will we have pick 15 anyway.

 

[salt3d]

Huh?

Its within the rules and how its structured. Here's how it worked for crouch in order:
1) Adelaide offer him a contract and he re-signs,
2) Crouch seeks outside offers and nominates an opposition clubs contract he would like to leave for,
3) compensation is announced by the AFL,
4) Adelaide make the decision if they match the nominated contracted forcing it into the trade/draft scenario,
5) Adelaide and St kilda work on a trade,
6) if no trade is done Crouch goes into the draft.

You missed the bit where Crouch can accept the offer from Adelaide.

 

[Armoooo]

Don't Essendon have pick 6? Wouldn't put it past dildoro to pick him up just to spite Carlton.

Surely that's still a win from Carlton. Forcing one of your oldest rivals to burn a top 10 pick on their own player, you'd love to see it.

 

[Winmar2Lockett]

The more interesting question is will we have pick 15 anyway.

Whatya reckon Brayshaw would cost Stewie?