List Mgmt. 2020 Trade Thread - Part IV

[prophetic1]

Bad Attitude, Bad Information, Bad Management, Bad Company, Bad Planning, Bad Coaching, Bad Technique, Bad Boys and even Bad Women maybe? But Bad Luck??? Not so sure I'd like to believe that this tilt we will be dependent on luck, but with History being the best way to prophesise the future you'd say there's plenty of evidence to argue otherwise. One might be forgiven to allow the s**t thinking in I guess. Please God dont let it be so. I've always wanted to say "Luck is not a factor"

 

[CaptainRisky]

Sean Darcy ..... someone big & lined up, yeah, nah he’s contracted til end of 2022.

View attachment 1033536

Id rather him get the ball than do weak acts like that , you don't need to be tough to do that

 

[Crusty Undies]

Great bump. Love the 80's stuff.

TBE is pretty hilarious too I hear.

 

[ScrappyDo]

Id rather him get the ball than do weak acts like that , you don't need to be tough to do that

Jeez you dramatize things sometimes. Shepparding the ball isn't a weak act, so get off your high horse.

A weak act is punching a bloke who's not looking or expecting it. See David Rhys Jones, or any of 100 players from that era.

Tom Lynch is a weak prick but there's very few that do it now days, and he gets protection from the league along with some others.

Has Longy punched blokes behind play? No he hasn't.
He's one of the skinniest and most courageous players on the field, aggressive at ball and body with a good strike rate of clean effective hits with the odd misfortune.
It's a tough game. Long may it stay that way IMO.

 

[Simple Jack]

I'd back that Geelong 07-11 group to beat any of the other recent dynasty teams.

They batted so deep it was ridiculous.

Definitely, the standard since 2011 has nosedived. And it's not exactly a crazy, unexpected outcome either; the talent pool was diluted by ~13% or so.

 

[CaptainRisky]

Jeez you dramatize things sometimes. Shepparding the ball isn't a weak act, so get off your high horse.

A weak act is punching a bloke who's not looking or expecting it. See David Rhys Jones, or any of 100 players from that era.

Tom Lynch is a weak prick but there's very few that do it now days, and he gets protection from the league along with some others.

Has Longy punched blokes behind play? No he hasn't.
He's one of the skinniest and most courageous players on the field, aggressive at ball and body with a good strike rate of clean effective hits with the odd misfortune.
It's a tough game. Long may it stay that way IMO.

LOL , You would be the first to squeal if an opposition player did that to one of our players , he had no intention to try and even pick the ball up , i like longy and have supported him but those dumb acts need to stop

 

[ScrappyDo]

LOL , You would be the first to squeal if an opposition player did that to one of our players , he had no intention to try and even pick the ball up , i like longy and have supported him but those dumb acts need to stop

They will stop in time, he just needs to find the right balance.
I'm specifically objecting to you calling it weak.
Your compass is way off on that one.

 

[bergholt]

Bad Attitude, Bad Information, Bad Management, Bad Company, Bad Planning, Bad Coaching, Bad Technique, Bad Boys and even Bad Women maybe? But Bad Luck??? Not so sure I'd like to believe that this tilt we will be dependent on luck, but with History being the best way to prophesise the future you'd say there's plenty of evidence to argue otherwise. One might be forgiven to allow the sh*t thinking in I guess. Please God dont let it be so. I've always wanted to say "Luck is not a factor"

Not sure how that could ever be the case. What if we made the grand final undefeated and then half the team got debilitating gastro the morning of the game - surely that would be bad luck?

 

[CaptainRisky]

They will stop in time, he just needs to find the right balance.
I'm specifically objecting to you calling it weak.
Your compass is way off on that one.

Thats in your opinion , If he had put his head over the ball different story

 

[Premium]

Thats in your opinion , If he had put his head over the ball different story

Both times Long has been rubbed out he has just been too high on his bumps - sometimes last minute movement can cause it - just has to refine it so he doesn't collect the head , other wise I have no problems with how hard he goes about it, we need that type in our backline , you do what you can to win a contest.

The game is getting hard enough now when you tackle a player you have to ensure his head doesn't hit the deck.
The bump has always been part of the game and if we take it out , it will turn the game into netball.

I have more problems with forwards kneeing players in the back or back of head like what Paton copped in the last game we played.
Cameron from almost wasted the Lions fullback a couple years ago.

Anyway I'm happy with Longy's development this year on the halfback line and hopefully he has made that spot his.

 

[BrutThough]

Both times Long has been rubbed out he has just been too high on his bumps - sometimes last minute movement can cause it - just has to refine it so he doesn't collect the head , other wise I have no problems with how hard he goes about it, we need that type in our backline , you do what you can to win a contest.

The game is getting hard enough now when you tackle a player you have to ensure his head doesn't hit the deck.
The bump has always been part of the game and if we take it out , it will turn the game into netball.

I have more problems with forwards kneeing players in the back or back of head like what Paton copped in the last game we played.
Cameron from almost wasted the Lions fullback a couple years ago.

Anyway I'm happy with Longy's development this year on the halfback line and hopefully he has made that spot his.

And while Long does need to refine his bumping technique, I think he was slightly unlucky both times this year with the circumstances around his bumps.

The first one, he was unlucky that Darcy's own technique was off and was leading into head first into a contest. If Darcy entered that contest the way players are taught too, then no one would have looked twice at Long's action. Compared to all the other bumps which were looked at that weekend, Long's was one of the only ones that was in play and didnt divert his direction to get the player. He deserved to get suspended because Darcy was concussed, but some of the talk around him that week calling him a dirty, malicious person was out of line.

And the second one, he was unlucky that the AFL decided that weekend that they were going to start using the 'potential cause injury clause' which they hadn't been using for the remainder of the year. Seriously, when the defence against him was asking for the tribunal to imagine if something different happened, then he was stiff. That had been judged as a fine all year and that's what he should have been given.

 

[Saintbloke]

Longy has a lot of upside, but I had no doubt he would get rubbed out when I saw both incidents this season. Unless he works with the coaching staff on his approach to tacking/ bumping etc (probably already doing this), he will be a player who spends a lot of time in the stands watching on.

 

[Armoooo]

Long just needs to hold back about 10% with his bumps.

He does some stupid ones when he's flying at full tilt.

 

[pebblesofsand]

Lot of love for Long but still has the same problem he had as a hff. Doesn't find enough of the ball.

Ben Long and Ben Paton AFL Stats Comparison

Ben Long and Ben Paton AFL Stats Comparison.

www.footywire.com

Prefer JWebb if he can get fit.

 

[Saint_Dos]

Lot of love for Long but still has the same problem he had as a hff. Doesn't find enough of the ball.

Ben Long and Ben Paton AFL Stats Comparison

Ben Long and Ben Paton AFL Stats Comparison.

www.footywire.com

Prefer JWebb if he can get fit.

For his first full year at HB I reckon he went well.
Certainly has that rebounding attack on the ball we need for our fast ball movement. And his physicality is good particularly when the ball is on the line.
Just working out where that line is when hard lining a ball and gets caught holding on a bit but plenty to develop on imo.

The attacking rebounding defender is one of the most important roles these days to break trough zones and think he is the closest we have to that player at this stage.

Would love to see JWeb back if he can get up and going but that sadly seems like a big if at this stage.

 

[HunterClarksHeadband]

Lot of love for Long but still has the same problem he had as a hff. Doesn't find enough of the ball.

Ben Long and Ben Paton AFL Stats Comparison

Ben Long and Ben Paton AFL Stats Comparison.

www.footywire.com

Prefer JWebb if he can get fit.

Loved JWeb and his line breaking kicks however there’s something I love about Longy.
As I’ve said before - in a team full of almost “choir boys” I love that he’s tough and willing to have a crack. He’s 23 FFS - we stick with him and let him mature, by 25 he could be an absolute gun. First year in the new role and we saw that when he was up forward he had an awesome goal sense. Will be exciting once these young guys hit their prime! Long in my 22 any day of the week.

 

[Premium]

Loved JWeb and his line breaking kicks however there’s something I love about Longy.
As I’ve said before - in a team full of almost “choir boys” I love that he’s tough and willing to have a crack. He’s 23 FFS - we stick with him and let him mature, by 25 he could be an absolute gun. First year in the new role and we saw that when he was up forward he had an awesome goal sense. Will be exciting once these young guys hit their prime! Long in my 22 any day of the week.

Its going to be interesting because Webster and Geary will battle to get into our best 22 - Webster has not played for basically 2 years and Geary has lost the pace required to hold his position in the backline as he showed being out run to the ball by Weideman and talking about Geary surely they can't name him captain again this year - at 33 (in 6mths) and well past his best surely they pick some one soon because pre - season games start in March which is not to far off.

Our list is stocked with talented players I just hope they play the kids like Bytel , Byrne , Higgins ahead of the older types - because they will be stalling there progress.

Paton - Howard - Wilkie
Long - Carlisle - Coffield
Billings - Steele - Hill
Butler - Marshall - Battle
Gresham - King - Membery

Ryder / Crouch / Jones

Hunter Clark - Hannerbery - Ross - Higgins

Surely Bytel would be next player picked , then Sinclair , Kent , Lonie

Injuries will occur and having McKearnan , Frawley will cover the bigs forward and back.

 

[pebblesofsand]

See there's the thing about Longy. People see him as an attacking rebounding defender but when you compare his outputs to say Ben Paton (who played primarily a defensive role last year) Longy barely outrates him on possessions and is well down on metres gained.

Can see the attraction but to think he's a better option than a fit JWebb is a stretch.

 

[Verdun]

Reckon Long had a great year and is under rated. My only whinge re the penalty's he got was at the same time two Richmond players Lynch and Cotchin got off after repeated dodgy acts.

Yep that is a whinge and hopefully once we are succesful again we get the rub of the green re that stuff as well

 

[gringo2011]

For his first full year at HB I reckon he went well.
Certainly has that rebounding attack on the ball we need for our fast ball movement. And his physicality is good particularly when the ball is on the line.
Just working out where that line is when hard lining a ball and gets caught holding on a bit but plenty to develop on imo.

The attacking rebounding defender is one of the most important roles these days to break trough zones and think he is the closest we have to that player at this stage.

Would love to see JWeb back if he can get up and going but that sadly seems like a big if at this stage.

He's an interesting one, his best is breathtaking but he does seem like the least consistent of our defensive best 6. I agree with Pebbles, he just seems to have the same issues he had as a forward. There are times where you think he might be on the bench because he just disappears for large parts of games. He's probably got to lift this year or could be the one we could push out for a guy like Connelly or even Highmore etc. He's kind of lucky that Savage has gone and that Webster can't get on the field.

 

[gringo2011]

See there's the thing about Longy. People see him as an attacking rebounding defender but when you compare his outputs to say Ben Paton (who played primarily a defensive role last year) Longy barely outrates him on possessions and is well down on metres gained.

Can see the attraction but to think he's a better option than a fit JWebb is a stretch.

I'd say he's line breaking, he steps around his player and uses the ball well. None of our defenders would have massive meters gained stats. We seem to prefer to short pass it around while running and hold possession more than move it long and fast. Savage and Webster were both more the type that would move it long. At his best he can intercept marks even if they are contested and he's hard at the ball and man. He'll make players that don't like body contact earn every possession and he'll start to scare off players as his reputation grows. He's probably 5 to 10 possessions a game off being a gun.

 

[Crusty Undies]

I'd say he's line breaking, he steps around his player and uses the ball well. None of our defenders would have massive meters gained stats. We seem to prefer to short pass it around while running and hold possession more than move it long and fast. Savage and Webster were both more the type that would move it long. At his best he can intercept marks even if they are contested and he's hard at the ball and man. He'll make players that don't like body contact earn every possession and he'll start to scare off players as his reputation grows. He's probably 5 to 10 possessions a game off being a gun.

Coffield is comfortably our best on metres gained iirc. Especially in the 2nd half of the year where he finally got his mojo back.

 

[ScrappyDo]

He's an interesting one, his best is breathtaking but he does seem like the least consistent of our defensive best 6. I agree with Pebbles, he just seems to have the same issues he had as a forward. There are times where you think he might be on the bench because he just disappears for large parts of games. He's probably got to lift this year or could be the one we could push out for a guy like Connelly or even Highmore etc. He's kind of lucky that Savage has gone and that Webster can't get on the field.

Not particularly disagreeing with this, but this year Sav was fit the whole time and couldn't displace Longy, so l don't see him in any danger of losing his spot.

I think he's rated higher internally than in here, and l think that's because of his off the ball work and the inferred pressure he brings that doesn't appear on the stats sheet.

He also brings good skills and a big POD, so IMO a stats based assessment on his value is in fact missing the point almost entirely.

 

[hayes]

Yeah Long is a decent defender who can intercept pretty well but he’s not much of an attacking option. I think one day Paton will be used for attacking more and Long will be the defensive stopper.

 

[BrutThough]

Not particularly disagreeing with this, but this year Sav was fit the whole time and couldn't displace Longy, so l don't see him in any danger of losing his spot.

I think he's rated higher internally than in here, and l think that's because of his off the ball work and the inferred pressure he brings that doesn't appear on the stats sheet.

He also brings good skills and a big POD, so IMO a stats based assessment on his value is in fact missing the point almost entirely.

Lethlean said on 3aw post trade period that Webster was told 3-4 times this year that he was going to come back into the side then got a knock or a niggle at training.

And out of everyone who played in defence, Long or Paton would appear the most vulnerable to be the player Webster was going to replace. And with Paton winning a lot of his defensive match-ups, Long's was probably more vulnerable week-to-week than we realised.