List Mgmt. 2020 Trade Thread - Part IV

[Coconut_twirl]

Robbie Fox

42

Robbie Fox

Age

33

Ht

185cm

Wt

84kg

Pos.

D/F

Career

Season

Last 5

D

11.3

3star

K

5.7

2star

HB

5.6

4star

M

2.2

2star

T

3.6

5star

MG

151.3

2star

D

10.8

3star

K

6.5

3star

HB

4.3

3star

M

2.5

3star

T

2.8

4star

MG

151.3

3star

D

12.2

3star

K

5.4

2star

HB

6.8

5star

M

0.4

1star

T

3.6

5star

worth a look as a delisted free agent? I'm surprised Sydney let him go after playing 14 matches as a defender this year.

 

[Winmar2Lockett]

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Anyone teams having long term injuries prior to the pre-season rookie draft, won't have a problem finding a working replacement.
The mid-year rookie draft could be a gold mine with all the overlooked 18 year olds.

 

[Mr Pickles]

So what are you actually disagreeing with then? I didn't completely dismiss anything and you said it will be more difficult yourself. Concessions will be made this year regardless, it's an extraordinary year and recruiters all over the country don't have much to go on in 2020 for players form or any kind of player development over the last 12 months. This is a fact.

Just seems like another easy way to have a dig at the club if we don't draft the best kids. There is no "separating the boys from the men", there is no "this year will tell us what they are really made of". There is little to no recent form guide. They have to hope what they saw over 12 months ago still holds true today, along with the conversations they've had with these kids in the lead up to the draft.

Agree this year is not going tell us anything about the talent of any recruiter. Limited vision this year, most of their research is based on happenings from over a year ago and as you said A LOT can change in that time.

That's what I disagree with, as your statement does completely dismiss talent assessment. I agreed it will be more difficult, but that's exactly where the men do get separated from the boys - when things are more difficult. If a key piece of evidence isn't available in a court case, do you just throw your hands up and pack it in? I'd argue that's really when you want the best in the business who can assess the evidence that is available. This scenario is no different.

 

[George]

That's what I disagree with, as your statement does completely dismiss talent assessment. I agreed it will be more difficult, but that's exactly where the men do get separated from the boys - when things are more difficult. If a key piece of evidence isn't available in a court case, do you just throw your hands up and pack it in? I'd argue that's really when you want the best in the business who can assess the evidence that is available. This scenario is no different.

Yes it is different, because things can change dramatically over the course of a year and players who you thought were good back then may have dropped off over that time and the same goes for players rising up the draft board.

Those that want to just find another reason to complain about the club will use any potential bad selections in this draft as a way to do that, when in reality this is probably the toughest draft to nail for probably the last 20 years, or at least since recruiting techniques and strategy became truly professional.

It will be a bonus if we can nail any pick beyond the first round this year.

 

[borderbarry]

I dont see the point of moving a young player like Clavarino onto the rookie list if he is close to getting a senior game, which I think he is. I would move players who are contracted but not likely to get a senior game this season onto the rookie list.

 

[hangdog]

I think the "recruiters & journos" chat has been done to death now.

Back to trade talk please.

 

[Winmar2Lockett]

I dont see the point of moving a young player like Clavarino onto the rookie list if he is close to getting a senior game, which I think he is. I would move players who are contracted but not likely to get a senior game this season onto the rookie list.

Being on the rookie list makes zero difference to whether you're getting a senior game (or close to getting one) as we've seen with Wilkie.

It's now evolved into a TPP management tool, even more so with the ability to list up to 6 players have have close to $500k outside the cap.

 

[Peterbudge]

I cant see why we would want to move many players to the rookie list.

The main benefit of moving players to the rookie list is to free up list spots that you can fill through the National Draft. This only makes sense though if it is a deep pool as anyone drafted through the National Draft is contracted for 2 yrs on a slightly better wage than a Rookie.

For us, we only have late picks outside the late 1st rounder. The difference in adjudging the quality of player that falls through to the late rounds of the National Draft or Rookie Draft is very difficult in any year but it is even harder to judge their quality this year because no one knows how a lot of these kids have developed..We only have to offer a 1 yr contract to a rookie so it makes more sense to go for rookies this year when drafting is quite speculative.

One thing i think we will do though is bundle up a couple of those late picks though to try and turn it into a pick 40 or so.

 

[st_trav_ofWA]

Disagree with this. If anything, this is a year that will separate the men from the boys at the recruiter table. Stout recruitment is a lot more than watching some tape in a single year.

it will certainly put more importance on the testing and the interviews but it is still going to be hit and miss ... i have known a kid who has been down this path twice who tested exceptionally well in the camp he also impressed many in the interviews but he didnt get drafted twice because of flaws in his game that were getting worse not better ... so again its a combonation of combining all levels of information on the player that makes the best choices but like baking a cake baking a cake is a lot more than mixing the eggs but if you dont have the eggs the cake aint going to be great ...

 

[jwikked]

Surely we will have the maximum number of rookies to minimize cap space moving forward.

 

[st_trav_ofWA]

I'm not in a 'no excuses' camp, but it would be just as odd to completely dismiss the ability to still assess talent. Is it more difficult than a normal year - of course it is. It will be more of a crapshoot for most recruiters simply because they are bog average at their job - see Dildo, but I do think this scenario will benefit the handful of top recruiters who will be able to get bargains/value on the talent they can identify.

i dont think anyone here is saying anything but it will be a more difficult than a normal year ... the issue is some people are bullish on this notition it wont make a single differance when clearly it will .. we see hits and misses every year, bargains and busts, bolters and Sliders .... all we are saying is this year with the changes of not having the same level of information at hand there is a strong likelyhood that these will be greater this year ... its not a hard concept to understand ... unless of course you are looking for any opportunity to bag out Libba and the drafting team

 

[Highlander35]

I cant see why we would want to move many players to the rookie list.

The main benefit of moving players to the rookie list is to free up list spots that you can fill through the National Draft. This only makes sense though if it is a deep pool as anyone drafted through the National Draft is contracted for 2 yrs on a slightly better wage than a Rookie.

For us, we only have late picks outside the late 1st rounder. The difference in adjudging the quality of player that falls through to the late rounds of the National Draft or Rookie Draft is very difficult in any year but it is even harder to judge their quality this year because no one knows how a lot of these kids have developed..We only have to offer a 1 yr contract to a rookie so it makes more sense to go for rookies this year when drafting is quite speculative.

One thing i think we will do though is bundle up a couple of those late picks though to try and turn it into a pick 40 or so.

As it stands right now, to fill out the rookie list rather than take the extra 2 players on the primary list as we've generally done in the past (presuming we want to do so to have the extra 160k outside the Cap), we'd need to take 5 "live" picks into the rookie draft. While I could imagine us leaving 1 spot open for "train on" players over the summer, even 4 is a crapshoot. Moving for example, 2 of Clav, Joyce and DMac to the rookie list gives you the flexibility in list management to CHOOSE whether you're taking National Draft picks, or DFAs, or PSDs or Rookies, in a way that leaving things as they are doesn't.

 

[XhazzafootyX]

North still haven’t made a decision on will walker

27

Will Walker

Age

27

Ht

186cm

Wt

78kg

Pos.

M/F

Career

Season

Last 5

D

9.8

2star

K

6.8

3star

HB

3.0

3star

M

3.0

3star

T

2.3

4star

CL

0.8

3star

No current season stats available

D

9.8

3star

K

6.8

3star

HB

3.0

3star

M

3.0

3star

T

2.3

4star

CL

0.8

3star

yet. They have just delisted EVW.
I really hope if he does get delisted we look at him. I think his upside is huge and jusr hasn’t got a good run at it so far.
Is a sandy boy too.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Surely we will have the maximum number of rookies to minimize cap space moving forward.

If we have Rookie spots available going into the season , can we top up in the mid-season rookie draft or do we need to have an injury to do this?
Many of the undrafted 18 year olds will be showing senior football from by then.
If the former i'd be very in favour of leaving as many spots open as we can and drafting as many rookies mid-season as we can.

If we have to have injury , surely Hannebery can volunteer a hamstring, or we can give McKenzie concussion.
( joking ).

 

[Mr Pickles]

i dont think anyone here is saying anything but it will be a more difficult than a normal year ... the issue is some people are bullish on this notition it wont make a single differance when clearly it will .. we see hits and misses every year, bargains and busts, bolters and Sliders .... all we are saying is this year with the changes of not having the same level of information at hand there is a strong likelyhood that these will be greater this year ... its not a hard concept to understand ... unless of course you are looking for any opportunity to bag out Libba and the drafting team

agree with everything you've said, but your view is different to other posters at the far end of the spectrum who've said this draft is a complete write-off for talent scouts. i think some are mistaking my intentions...i'm not looking to bag our our recruitment team if they don't nail this draft. my simple point was that I didn't agree with a certain view on talent assessment being a complete wash.

 

[StCicatriz]

Surely we will have the maximum number of rookies to minimize cap space moving forward.

would make sense to transition players like dunstan, mckenzie, joyce etc. to it

unless we dont like the idea of having to carry late pick draftees on 2 year deals

 

[SaintsSeptember]

would make sense to transition players like dunstan, mckenzie, joyce etc. to it

unless we dont like the idea of having to carry late pick draftees on 2 year deals

Like i alluded, Mid-season rookie picks are probably worth more than late draft picks.

 

[stfan]

I dont see the point of moving a young player like Clavarino onto the rookie list if he is close to getting a senior game, which I think he is. I would move players who are contracted but not likely to get a senior game this season onto the rookie list.

In terms of selection it no longer makes a difference whether a player is on a rookie list or not (ie Wilkie).

A numbers of years back you had to elevate a player to the senior list, and places to do this was limited. That was dropped and you can now just select a rookie, or rookies, in the seniors.

 

[ScrappyDo]

Surely we will have the maximum number of rookies to minimize cap space moving forward.

would make sense to transition players like dunstan, mckenzie, joyce etc. to it

unless we dont like the idea of having to carry late pick draftees on 2 year deals

The question for me is:
Does a club with our debt and income levels even want to pay outside the cap??
When we've already structured our contracts prior to this allowance, where's the benefit for us to use it?

Having late picks on the main list might present a problem, but really it's only 2 years and I'd assume no more than 2 players.
Our 2021 OOC's reasonably plentiful and we should have the room to accommodate these 2 late picks without it creating an issue because we can shift listed players to the rookie list next year too.

 

[st_trav_ofWA]

agree with everything you've said, but your view is different to other posters at the far end of the spectrum who've said this draft is a complete write-off for talent scouts. i think some are mistaking my intentions...i'm not looking to bag our our recruitment team if they don't nail this draft. my simple point was that I didn't agree with a certain view on talent assessment being a complete wash.

im not sure anyone has said that this year is a total write off though ? from my interpretation of what has been said is more the fact this year is significantly harder to get a clear read on the prospective pick ups that any comment of "this is a make or break draft for blah blah blah" or "what blah blah blah does this year will be telling" is an unfair assesment of the situation .. if we are to past critisim on any recruiters skills this year realistically is the one year where we should be able to give a little slack for missed picks given the situation leading into the draft .. this year more than anyother is going to require a bucket of somewhat luck especially in the later picks .

 

[Joffaboy]

The question for me is:
Does a club with our debt and income levels even want to pay outside the cap??
When we've already structured our contracts prior to this allowance, where's the benefit for us to use it?

Having late picks on the main list might present a problem, but really it's only 2 years and I'd assume no more than 2 players.
Our 2021 OOC's reasonably plentiful and we should have the room to accommodate these 2 late picks without it creating an issue because we can shift listed players to the rookie list next year too.

What has debt got to do with operating income and expenditure?

 

[SaintsSeptember]

The question for me is:
Does a club with our debt and income levels even want to pay outside the cap??
When we've already structured our contracts prior to this allowance, where's the benefit for us to use it?

Having late picks on the main list might present a problem, but really it's only 2 years and I'd assume no more than 2 players.
Our 2021 OOC's reasonably plentiful and we should have the room to accommodate these 2 late picks without it creating an issue because we can shift listed players to the rookie list next year too.

No it doesn't help us.

There is no reason to assume the draft doesn't run deep , but many of the players have little exposed form.
If we leave rookie spots open , as many as possible , we can top up mid year after we see the kids at VFL.
Only use late picks if we are pretty sure about the player.

AFL mid-season draft 2019: How the draft works, date, draft order, players in the mix

Explained: Mid-season draft order — and who YOUR club is circling

www.foxsports.com.au

Should AFL clubs have a list spot available or one is created through a player being placed on the inactive list, they will be able to add a player to their rookie list and select players based on reverse ladder order.
Clubs will then have first rights to re-contract their drafted player or he becomes a delisted free agent.

 

[ScrappyDo]

What has debt got to do with operating income and expenditure?

I really wouldn't know. Could you please PM me with a tutorial??

 

[borderbarry]

If you have heavy debt, you may be less inclined to keep spending.