List Mgmt. 2020 Trade Thread.....

[ferball]

What's the wealthy one's number again ? I had it on a coaster but seem to have misplaced it. Ta TAO

Yeah .. err ... same here.

 

[the flying ham]

Whichever club wants to shell out the best deal for Brown is the better option.

Correct. So Cox probably wouldn't figure in those discussions. Cheers.

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[Sillygit]

It is not as much the choices that are being made but the manner in which they are being executed. I said in my post we need to turn over the list, however we appear to be being brutal almost for the sake of it.


Consider:
Scuttlebutt on here suggests that a lot of player knew very early into hub life that they wouldn't be around next year. THis is inviting disharmony among the playing group and apathy on field, which we saw play out and now we are making lasting decisions based on performances in these conditions.

Don't get me wrong, Change is absolutely required.

Us getting this right is also absolutely required.

that assums that the scuttlebut is true and draws conclusions from it, there's more than one way to explain how it played out, and the resulting cuts are the right response regardless.

 

[Only Forwards]

If this puts a few minds at ease - the vibes I get is the club is acutely aware of the perils of having too few senior leaders. It won't let us be "Melbourne or Carlton" (I don't like those examples because those lists were in priority pick hell for years, poorly run in every facet).

They will not let our talent go to the slaughter, regardless of who gets moved on.

being aware of something and being able to prevent something are not the same thing.

it is a nuanced thing. I am sure we didn't expect hub life to play out as poorly as it did, choices we made effected that.

one too many players cut, one potential leader not standing up to new responsibilities.

My point is more we need to make sure we get this shit right. the alternative is truly scary.

 

[Clarke is King]

Can someone confirm this for me.... are players able to nominate now? Or do they have to wait until free agency opens before nominations are allowed? I don't recall any official nominations at this stage?


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I recall Polec officially nominated us before free agency/trade period started but I don't recall anyone officially nominating while games are still being played.

 

[Bend_It_Like_Brown]

Carlton have asked about Goldstein apparently. We’ve given them a firm no.

 

[Only Forwards]

Lots of good points made and not dissimilar to discussions I have had with other good North Melbourne supporters.

However, I find myself replying; What would you do? What is the alternative? What if we do nothing?

The oft use cliché of 'club is bigger than any individual' is relevant here.

We must DO something. Another year where we cut a couple then persevere with the same mid-age, mid-experience, mediocre group will have us in an even deeper hole with even less trade currency than the little we have now.

We grow to love all players on our list. Ben, Maj, Higgo but the future of the club is on the line right here and now.

Also, re Pagan's comments. I love that. I'm actually enjoying the Caro Wilsons and Dwayne Russell's wallowing in our predicament. This is now backs to the wall stuff which will make succeeding all the more sweeter and pleasurable.

We need to trust. There IS no other way

doing nothing was never on the table.

Cuts were needed and they need to be the right cuts.

my point is more that our need to get this right is absolute.

As to the backs to the walls stuff, absolutely. That is part of our identity. No one likes us and we're really only good at football and fighting.

 

[The Anvil]

This is our leverage. We can offer capped out teams space by taking their bad contracts if we get their picks.

The PR is the issue. Supporters will burn it down because many will judge the deal by the player not the picks.

Eating a contract of another team to get 2 x 1st rounders would be a very easy sell to the supporters.

 

[New_Roo]

I recall Polec officially nominated us before free agency/trade period started but I don't recall anyone officially nominating while games are still being played.

And I'm sure hill did too? Ok so the fact it's all quiet isn't an issue as could be just down to the fact that deals maybe done just not communicated officially


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[DuckYeah]

Carlton have asked about Goldstein apparently. We’ve given them a firm no.

Oh the audacity..

 

[ChoppyGun]

You saying Higgins is the one who instigated ChoppyGun or the other way round?

Higgo.

 

[justroyal]

She is carrying her dead child and will be for another five months. Just give her a break.

Yeah look, I'm commenting on the podcast and the content - which is a combined effort.
Not her as a person. I wouldn't be able to.

 

[GreatBradScott]

being aware of something and being able to prevent something are not the same thing.

it is a nuanced thing. I am sure we didn't expect hub life to play out as poorly as it did, choices we made effected that.

one too many players cut, one potential leader not standing up to new responsibilities.

My point is more we need to make sure we get this sh*t right. the alternative is truly scary.

As you know man, things go wrong in life. They just don't work out.

Does that mean you don't get out of bed in the morning though? Paralysis can be just as, if not more an insidious a path to failure.

They're across it and it's actively on the front of their mind. I share the concern, but everything has a risk attached.

 

[Mr_Nyah]

Carlton have asked about Goldstein apparently. We’ve given them a firm no.

Not surprised when all they offered was JSOS and Kennedy...

 

[ChoppyGun]

Well thats a waste then isnt it? Will get something fu**in sh*t for him? Thats a fu**in joke if that happens..

Hey look, our most valuable forward, we’ll trade him out and get fu** all for him! What a move!

the mastermind? .. fu**in big nose campaigner! He can sniff out everything except how to capitalise on your best stocks? Goose

Completely disagree, but find the passion and wording very humorous!

 

[buttsauce]

Can you take someones contract and they remain on that teams list?

 

[DuckYeah]

Completely disagree, but find the passion and wording very humorous!

Ive significantly changed my position on the matter too

 

[1975]

Completely disagree, but find the passion and wording very humorous!

I completely agree about completely disagreeing and also find it very humorous

 

[roos_fanatic08]

there a bit going on and in terms of thread why not this one.

I have some major concerns with what we are doing.

Its not that I don't back the club, and its not going to affect me fronting up next year but there are things occurring that are not sitting totally right with me.

1) We are seemingly making some pretty deep cuts to senior players. I said earlier in this thread that there was a fine line with this stuff and that going all crazy Vossy on us could have some serious ramifications.

• 2 are gone from the leadership group, with a potential 3rd in Higgins, that is half the leadership group gone and I have the expectation that Jack has to step down in 2021. This is a massive change. It also doesn't account for rumours of another being Senior player being talked about in potential trades, or rumours about Cunners. Too deep of cuts to the senior players and we will wade into Melbourne territory.
• Our most marketable player, is seemingly collateral damage in a stand against player managers walking over us. 60 goals a year don't grow on trees. I get the need to get in front of a story and that relationships may have soured but Ben Brown has been one of our best players over the last 5 years and now we are seemingly selling in doom.

2) It looks to me that we are looking to cycle players through our list to play to the coaches "plan" a plan that was largely unidentifiable for swathes of this year. This is a huge concern to me. Not because we are turning over the list. That had to be done to enable change to happen, Change that we desperately need. However we just spent a decade with a coach trying to cycle through our list to get player that could play to his plan. It seems we are going all in on Shaw here. Which is scary. More coaches fail than succeed and very few coaches take bottoming clubs from the bottom to the top. I really don't want to get to mid 2022 have it be abundantly clear that whatever he was trying to do won't work and we have a list built around the idea of making it work. It is this sort of thing that ends up in Melbourne or Carlton type territory.

3) We are making some huge long lasting decisions on the back of a year where I believe we set ourselves up to fail.
Consider this choice:
We have a rookie coach we are trying to implement a new plan and are staring down the barrel of moving into a hub. We need to make cut to the coaches who do we take?

a) line coaches who have have more of a chance to help implement the new plan​

or​

b) Development coaches​

We took development coaches (some line coaches left disgruntled) and IMHO we were worse for it as we moved on some of the support for Shaw that was needed.

4) We are doing all this moving on of senior players in a year where the draft is more speculative than it has been since the early 90s. I expect us to nail our very early picks, but sh*t is going to get real speculative real fast.

Potential for ramifications as I see it:

After we won the centenary flag in 1996, Denis is quoted as saying (paraphrasing) that a lot of people don't like this club, don't want us around. In 2007 that manifested itself in a relocation push.

A lot of people at the club have feared going so all in on a complete rebuild because of this. It is incredibly important that we get this right. Make no mistake, weathering a storm of being in the wilderness like Melbourne or Carlton have would not be easy. There is not a lot to indicate that much has changed on our perception from the time Denis made that quote. You only need to look at how undervalued our players are in the media to see it.

Fantastic post
Probably needs to have its own thread to discuss.
I mentioned in the draft thread that if we **** this up and end up in the wilderness for more than a year or two then the jungle drums will start beating for us to relocate to Tassie.

There is so much more on the line than people realise.

 

[DuckYeah]

Can you take someones contract and they remain on that teams list?

Lol no you take cox’s contract and then immediately delist him before he can get his hands on our sick jumper! No handshake, nada

 

[Scallop Industry Thug]

Carlton have asked about Goldstein apparently. We’ve given them a firm no.

I remember when the AFL used to have a salary cap.

 

[7577969923]

Yeah .. err ... same here.

Should I wake her up and ask for you blokes? She is a bit exhausted.

 

[Scallop Industry Thug]

Eating a contract of another team to get 2 x 1st rounders would be a very easy sell to the supporters.

You reckon? We all get it, but would the casual whos weighing up whether to buy a membership?

 

[King Corey]

Lol no you take cox’s contract and then immediately delist him before he can get his hands on our sick jumper! No handshake, nada

That is an amazing idea though.

Players wanted to be free agents and run it like a business - this is next level.

You'd be buying a draft pick for $salary cap space.

 

[Scallop Industry Thug]

That is an amazing idea though.

Players wanted to be free agents and run it like a business - this is next level.

You'd be buying a draft pick for $salary cap space.

Peanut mentioned the NBA. The Knicks are poorly run and had a bunch of cap space. Instead of having bad contracts traded to them along with the draft picks of teams who need cap space, they simply filled up their space with shit players.

We’re not signing a superstar. Our space is leverage to extract picks.