List Mgmt. 2020 Trade Watch

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Current no. of players on the list
Senior list - 34 (2-4 free*)
Rookie (Cat A) - 4 (0-2 free*)
Rookie (Cat B) - 2 (0 free)
Maximum list size of 44. Up to 36-38 senior list, 4-6 category A rookie list and 2 category B rookie list.
* Total of four list spots available, with a minimum of 2 senior list spots needing to be utilised.

List changes
IN: Daniher, Cockatoo, Uosis (R)
OUT: Christensen, Wooller, Allison (R), Skinner (R), Eagles (R), C. Lyons (R), Martin, Witherden, Cox, Hinge.
PROMOTED: Fullarton.
ROOKIED: Birchall, Mathieson, Ballendan.

Current picks
25, 53, 58, 69, 70
(2021 - 1st (MEL), 1st, 3rd (WCE), 3rd, 4th (MEL), 4th (COLL), 5th)

Useful links
2020 trade news compendium
List changes, contract status and key dates
2020 draft discussion thread
 
Last edited:
Ralphy2017 said:
Could argue Wooller possibly a victim of no formal reserve comp this year and cut in list sizes, thought mid last year he was worth a game. Lyons I never rated, but when Lions finished 18th in 2017 and 15th in 2018 might have been a chance to play Lyons in a game. Certainly can understand why he did not get a game the last two seasons.
I don't know what the communication is like from within the club, but how do you think McStay might feel IF he is not in best 22 because of a new signing such as Daniher? How did Witho feel after signing a contract extension, buying a house in Brissy and then seeing the club sign Ah Chee and Birchall and being overlooked? Hopefully the club helped facilitate the trade. It is a ruthless business, and understand the need to continually improve the list, and the best 22 being picked on merit, but I believe that has not always been the case in the past two years.
Robertson and Ely, first round selections in past two drafts, could imagine that one or both of them probably thought they would play a few games by now, but challenging for coaches as the team is regularly winning.
I don't know what the culture is like in the club, but suspect it is reasonably strong, but also believe there are a few disappointed fringe players.
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If blokes are going to be disappointed about not getting a game because the team is better then the priorities are up the s$&t. If you not going to bring players in to improve the team because other players will miss out on a game then might as well fold. Well if Robertson and Ely have any sort of angst ( I do not believe for one second they would) then they need a reality check. Pick 18 and 20 and you really believe they would expect to be in the team that barely lost a game this year? Fringe players are what they are because of worth to the team not because the coach does not feel like playing them. What do you want to happen-stop bringing in good players because then others can’t get a game?
 
Mighty Lions said:
Don't understand how you can say that:

a) Before he even plays a game for us.
b) In 2020 our forward line was the 2nd most potent forward line in the comp. (Above Richmond.)
c) I've played over 300 games/coached for several years & was president of a community club for 5 years. Suffice to say, I think I know a bit about footy and I would not make such a bold statement as above until I see them get on the stage & do it.
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Good for you Mighty Lions and congrats on your career.

Daniher has to get out there again and do it but if he gets near his best I believe he's a massive improvement on whoever he replaces. Unless you think a gun FF wouldn't make us even better. We've played 4 finals and won one. So just like Daniher we have to do it as well if we want to be better.

But sure . Still has to work out for us. We wouldn't be doing it and paying him unless we our goal was to improve our side. Maybe the thinking is that being the 2nd most potent forward line in H/A isn't good enough, or perhaps we might even go backwards if we don't replenish our forward stocks.
 

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Mighty Lions said:
Don't understand how you can say that:

a) Before he even plays a game for us.
b) In 2020 our forward line was the 2nd most potent forward line in the comp. (Above Richmond.)
c) I've played over 300 games/coached for several years & was president of a community club for 5 years. Suffice to say, I think I know a bit about footy and I would not make such a bold statement as above until I see them get on the stage & do it.
Click to expand...

Yeah massive improvement is hyperbole. An improvement yes as you say our forward line is already one of the best. Daniher potentially will make it the best.

BTW which team has the most potent forward line? Cats?
 
WhiteLionFeva said:
This if BigFooty. We're all certified experts.
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I just didn't like the dis respectful comment about anyone disagreeing with Martinson knows nothing about footy. At the end of the day, none of us have the intel our footy club has when making decisions so on here its all opinionated views which everyone on BF is allowed providing its not insulting.......and YES, AGREE 100%, we are all certified experts. ;) :)
 
BangyBangy said:
That's a decent CV Mighty Lions , well done. I had you penciled in (obviously wrongly) as an orange cutter or water boy. The Lions version of a Bobby Boucher.
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I forgot to put that in........best orange cutter in the business although oranges are out of favour now. I did have a crack as water boy. Gave away a 50 metre penalty for being inside the 50m arc one day and was sacked on the spot.:oops::rolleyes:
 
pauldrc said:
I heard weeks ago that there are three or four young guys that the club seriously expects to step up big time next year.

The comment was along the lines of expect one or more to do a Starc and be in the 22 early, and become a regular fixture through the year.

One I am sure is Dev, Prior could also be one, and maybe T.Berry.

The club knows far more than what we do about how players are tracking, and whilst losing some players is a part of how things turn out, the key is in retaining the ones that are actually rated higher internally than those going by the club.


As for the draft, we are not necessarily done yet.

Melbournes 1st round next year could still come into play in a trade to grab a slider or someone we really rate without having to jeopardize our current high pick if a bid does come on Coleman early....
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Get the feeling that plans for Jaxon might have signed Witho and Hinges papers. Especially seeing there has been a year of basically zero development in the reserves through those scratchy matches. Birchall to the rookie list is interesting.
 
Mighty Lions said:
I just didn't like the dis respectful comment about anyone disagreeing with Martinson knows nothing about footy. At the end of the day, none of us have the intel our footy club has when making decisions so on here its all opinionated views which everyone on BF is allowed providing its not insulting.......and YES, AGREE 100%, we are all certified experts. ;) :)
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That wasn't the intention of my comment at all and it was directed at the article to which everyone had responded . Mistakenly I also thought it was self evident.

Crikey. Now I know how politicians feel when one throwaway comment gets jumped on on SM and the news.

I accept that I probably don't know anything , just putting a few thoughts up on a blog for discussion . To anyone miffed and insulted I apologise.
 
jonnobackpocket said:
If blokes are going to be disappointed about not getting a game because the team is better then the priorities are up the s$&t. If you not going to bring players in to improve the team because other players will miss out on a game then might as well fold. Well if Robertson and Ely have any sort of angst ( I do not believe for one second they would) then they need a reality check. Pick 18 and 20 and you really believe they would expect to be in the team that barely lost a game this year? Fringe players are what they are because of worth to the team not because the coach does not feel like playing them. What do you want to happen-stop bringing in good players because then others can’t get a game?
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I actually said in my post that the list continually needs to improve, but lets not assume that players 'could not be happier'. I have no idea of the club communication, but again suspect the culture is okay but also suspect some players are disappointed and are likely at the end of 2021 to seek opportunities. Just as I stated a few weeks ago with Witho and Hinge.
We will just have to agree to disagree on this
 
Ralphy2017 said:
I actually said in my post that the list continually needs to improve, but lets not assume that players 'could not be happier'. I have no idea of the club communication, but again suspect the culture is okay but also suspect some players are disappointed and are likely at the end of 2021 to seek opportunities. Just as I stated a few weeks ago with Witho and Hinge.
We will just have to agree to disagree on this
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I think ultimately they are all here because they want to play AFL football.
So if they feel they are good enough and are being held back they will seek opportunity elsewhere.
If another club offers a better opportunity to play then you can’t hold that against them for wanting more from their AFL career. As we have seen from Hinge and Witho this year. And even Stef to a smaller degree with him wanting to extend his career.
The good thing is that others will see them leaving as an opportunity for themselves, which is the cycle of the AFL.
 
jonnobackpocket said:
If blokes are going to be disappointed about not getting a game because the team is better then the priorities are up the s$&t. If you not going to bring players in to improve the team because other players will miss out on a game then might as well fold. Well if Robertson and Ely have any sort of angst ( I do not believe for one second they would) then they need a reality check. Pick 18 and 20 and you really believe they would expect to be in the team that barely lost a game this year? Fringe players are what they are because of worth to the team not because the coach does not feel like playing them. What do you want to happen-stop bringing in good players because then others can’t get a game?
Click to expand...
Two sides to it. Players need to take care of their own careers (because the club can and will delist them if they don't), and the club needs to take care of the club's future.

For players, if you're genuinely ready for AFL level, and can't develop any further at NEAFL/reserves level, and you'd make the 22 in 15 other sides in the league... Yeah, I'd be disappointed and considering looking elsewhere. Feel sorry for CLyons and Wooller, both of whom would've got games in most sides a couple of times in their careers...

For clubs, it's gotta be a balancing act. Absolutely, go for the cup now, but if you do it at the expense of your youngsters, you end up going off a cliff. After 2004, we suffered for the lack of games given to youth.
 
Mighty Lions said:
I forgot to put that in........best orange cutter in the business although oranges are out of favour now. I did have a crack as water boy. Gave away a 50 metre penalty for being inside the 50m arc one day and was sacked on the spot.:oops::rolleyes:
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Still couldn't be worse than that Collingwood runner that gave up a 50m penalty in the 18 GF resulting in a WCE goal at a crucial time of the game.
 

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spotthedog1 said:
Yeah, I'd be disappointed and considering looking elsewhere. Feel sorry for CLyons and Wooller, both of whom would've got games in most sides a couple of times in their careers...
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Same can be said for the likes of Luke Hammond, Jarrod Wright, Pat Garner throughout our premiership era that just couldn't crack games when we were a decent team.

Conversely, players in the same position as C Lyons and Wooller surely would've got games as the likes of say Scott Clouston, Broc McCauley, Josh Dyson, Leigh Ryswyck, Sam Michael, Jordon Bourke, Josh Clayton did when we were quite poor, particularly Corey who I know was on the verge of a senior game once or twice. No doubt there were other players too I've forgotten.

But then again, some guys just don't catch a break i.e. Cal Bartlett, Bart McCulloch, Patrick Weareden, Matt Tyler etc., which you could definitely add Toby and Corey to.
 
spotthedog1 said:
Two sides to it. Players need to take care of their own careers (because the club can and will delist them if they don't), and the club needs to take care of the club's future.

For players, if you're genuinely ready for AFL level, and can't develop any further at NEAFL/reserves level, and you'd make the 22 in 15 other sides in the league... Yeah, I'd be disappointed and considering looking elsewhere. Feel sorry for CLyons and Wooller, both of whom would've got games in most sides a couple of times in their careers...

For clubs, it's gotta be a balancing act. Absolutely, go for the cup now, but if you do it at the expense of your youngsters, you end up going off a cliff. After 2004, we suffered for the lack of games given to youth.
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Agree 100%. As an example if Payne is held back in 2021 and Lester and Adams are played in front of him, and he can't break into the team because the team is winning, after his Prelim game, i think he would be disappointed and you would think would seek opportunities at other clubs, that is footy, Higgins moved from Richmond this year to seek a permanent spot in the 22 at another club
You have nailed it with the potential risk of going off a cliff.
 
Mighty Lions said:
I forgot to put that in........best orange cutter in the business although oranges are out of favour now. I did have a crack as water boy. Gave away a 50 metre penalty for being inside the 50m arc one day and was sacked on the spot.:oops::rolleyes:
Click to expand...

I imagine it wasn’t in politically correct, emotionally supportive sacking either. Love a good sacking story so thanks for sharing
 
bungalow_bill said:
Fans from other teams are onto Payne already and I would assume other clubs. Lions will have high hopes and as long as he does okay will probably be played in front of guys like Lester and Adams who are solid journeymen. Payne could be a star.
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He was super impressive after his first game, suits our style too, a big guy that can r run and pressure like that, best 22 every week for me
 
Now I know there are stats, stats and dam lies. There is some evidence of the Daniher recruitment move. Yep the Daniher stats are not that deep over the last few years.

Thanks to statsinsider, and I know the data isn't perfect you can see Hippy gets the ball on the left, Daniher on the right - that is if set shots is an indicator of where they run. Yes again the midfield can dictate to an extent which way the clearance is coming as does the 'fat' or 'skinny side of the ground. Just thought these two are a good fit on paper.

I remember Browny and Fev's heat maps the year he came, similar in they covered either side of the ground.
 

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Clarkythelion said:
Thanks to statsinsider, and I know the data isn't perfect you can see Hippy gets the ball on the left, Daniher on the right - that is if set shots is an indicator of where they run. Yes again the midfield can dictate to an extent which way the clearance is coming as does the 'fat' or 'skinny side of the ground. Just thought these two are a good fit on paper.
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From memory, if you look at McStay and Hipwood they're best from opposite sides as well.
 
dlanod said:
From memory, if you look at McStay and Hipwood they're best from opposite sides as well.
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Yes kinda, Hippy very much owns the left pocket, maybe McStay kinda owns the corridor and to some extent the right but not as pronounced and the long lanky giants. There are so many variables but a good discussion point.
 

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Can someone please provide instructions for this conversation, feel like I'm turning a map upside down each new post
 
Dylan12 said:
LOL, the same guys that have played what 17 games out of close to 140 games between them in the past 3 years.

Seriously, I can hardly contain my excitement. :rolleyes:
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I accept you can hardly contain your excitement but do you think you could try to contain your overwhelmingly cynical commentary?

I understand that you don’t like the direction the club is going but do you understand that an overwhelming majority of Lions fans do?
 
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