List Mgmt. 2020 Young Talent time

[Taylor]

Even if Dixon comes on and turns into a star we will never be able to trade him for anything as he will be a free agent every single out of contract year, so we need to be mindful of that.

 

[theGav56]

Which is better; Grainger-Barrass or Taylor? If it is close, we are better off looking to trade for Taylor. But if Pearce is looking to be over his injuries they may not be the best fit for us.

If Tilthorpe continues his development trajectory, I would be comfortable offering our first (say pick 5) and a player like Cox or Blakely to GCSs to get a higher pick (assuming they finish low). A player like Tilthorpe developing into a dual role for us, and partnering with Lobb is an ideal for me. Provides enormous structural flexibility.

 

[theGav56]

I see us finishing between 9th and 15th so I’m really interested to see how McDonald goes this year. With Hogan and Taberner always unavailable and the age of our younger kids I think we need a developing key forward with a high pick and seems like a decent draft for it.

Think our midfield just needs games though it could use a bit more explosiveness / speed. With the NGA / FS we have coming through we are absolutely set for small creative forwards and our back 6 is set - though a bit injury prone for my liking.

McDonald should be right in our range if he has a good year - otherwise Thilthorpe would be my other choice though i suspect we’ll need at least a top 5 pick for him at least

Of equal concern to me is our dependence on Darcy, and the impact to the forward structure when he is not available and Lobb goes a-rucking.

 

[Snuffaluphagus]

Of equal concern to me is our dependence on Darcy, and the impact to the forward structure when he is not available and Lobb goes a-rucking.

Yeah, another reason why I think ideally we are taking a KPF at the pointy end of the draft. Anyone that helps keep the structure up forward let us use Lobb as a back-up ruck without throwing the structure out the window - gives us ruck depth as well. Its annoying, because we should have enough KPF's on the list

Taberner: I have no faith in staying on the park and he's pretty hit and miss anyway
Hogan: Dont really need to say much more
Dixon: He's probably the most frustrating of the lot. Everyone game he plays you can see he could succeed at the level but everytime a coach / player is asked about him its clear he's not professional enough
Cox: I still believe he could be a very good KPF - you dont kick 4 goals twice at AFL level at 20 if you dont have some talent but he's likely needed down back

We havent used a top 10 pick on a KPF since Pav - hoping this year is the year

 

[more_of_bito]

Is Tayor confirmed as our rnd 1 WA kid returning home?

 

[fnerd]

Yeah, another reason why I think ideally we are taking a KPF at the pointy end of the draft. Anyone that helps keep the structure up forward let us use Lobb as a back-up ruck without throwing the structure out the window - gives us ruck depth as well. Its annoying, because we should have enough KPF's on the list

Taberner: I have no faith in staying on the park and he's pretty hit and miss anyway
Hogan: Dont really need to say much more
Dixon: He's probably the most frustrating of the lot. Everyone game he plays you can see he could succeed at the level but everytime a coach / player is asked about him its clear he's not professional enough
Cox: I still believe he could be a very good KPF - you dont kick 4 goals twice at AFL level at 20 if you dont have some talent but he's likely needed down back

We havent used a top 10 pick on a KPF since Pav - hoping this year is the year

Good summary of our situation and am definitely hearing you on the bold.
For years we bemoaned our lack of kpf options and now somewhat flush with options ,we're still bemoaning it!
It's why I'm hoping by the end of the year most of the question marks around the names you've mentioned are answered,(should be) for good or for bad as we 'll be at point in our list structure where we need to decide on our preferred options and move forward with them .

This should include having McDonald(or any notable junior kpf)as one of our preferences for our first pick.
While the others will ultimately be either or traded or delisted

 

[theGav56]

Yeah, another reason why I think ideally we are taking a KPF at the pointy end of the draft. Anyone that helps keep the structure up forward let us use Lobb as a back-up ruck without throwing the structure out the window - gives us ruck depth as well. Its annoying, because we should have enough KPF's on the list

Taberner: I have no faith in staying on the park and he's pretty hit and miss anyway
Hogan: Dont really need to say much more
Dixon: He's probably the most frustrating of the lot. Everyone game he plays you can see he could succeed at the level but everytime a coach / player is asked about him its clear he's not professional enough
Cox: I still believe he could be a very good KPF - you dont kick 4 goals twice at AFL level at 20 if you dont have some talent but he's likely needed down back

We havent used a top 10 pick on a KPF since Pav - hoping this year is the year

Re Cox, at full strength I struggle to see him in our defence. I don’t really see him as a third tall, and see Pearce and Hamling as significantly in front of him for the two key positions. Right now he has an opportunity to change that perception, and it will be interesting to look back on his 2020 season.

If he is as good a forward prospect as you think he is (I see the potential but am not convinced) then why not keep that going? Maybe a stint back as a defender is good for his development anyway, but my impression is that Longmuir is wanting to give him certainty?

 

[Snuffaluphagus]

Re Cox, at full strength I struggle to see him in our defence. I don’t really see him as a third tall, and see Pearce and Hamling as significantly in front of him for the two key positions. Right now he has an opportunity to change that perception, and it will be interesting to look back on his 2020 season.

If he is as good a forward prospect as you think he is (I see the potential but am not convinced) then why not keep that going? Maybe a stint back as a defender is good for his development anyway, but my impression is that Longmuir is wanting to give him certainty?

As a big fan of Cox I can see him doing well down back for the first half of the year then keeping his spot in the team as an extra tall (to play where ever).

I think they’ve sent him back for several reasons
- it’s where he was most comfortable in U18 footy which goes with JL’s ‘play to their strengths/comforts thing”
- Recognised we had no depth
- Like you said, certainty over position

 

[theGav56]

As a big fan of Cox I can see him doing well down back for the first half of the year then keeping his spot in the team as an extra tall (to play where ever).

I think they’ve sent him back for several reasons
- it’s where he was most comfortable in U18 footy which goes with JL’s ‘play to their strengths/comforts thing”
- Recognised we had no depth
- Like you said, certainty over position

Who knows, maybe I’ll see it the same as the season progresses. He did what was required against Carlton which was what we need right now.

If we are having extra talls, I prefer them to be midfield capable so for me the dream might be Cox somehow becoming one of the three taller defenders and Logue being played ‘where ever’ or Cox becoming one of the three taller forwards and McCarthy playing ‘where ever’. The Cox version of that has him in the ruck, but I haven’t liked that at all.

 

[eastfreo75]

It’s a pity we didn’t avoid the points deficit for 2020. We also have only one second rounder left (tied to Melbourne I think). It would be good if we could get 2 players picked before any bids on western and walker. I suppose it depends on how both of those guys play in 2020 as to where they are likely to be drafted. One lesson from this years draft - a future pick is worth sweet f&@k all on draft night. So any trading involving a 2021 second rounder or the like should be done before draft night.
Based on AFL media expectations, we will be bottom 4 in 2020 and end up with a first rounder in the 3-8 range. Hopefully they are underrating us and we’ll have a much better season than that. Unlike 2019 I don’t see too many flight risks from our established players this year that might Request a trade apart from maybe Cerra but that’s just a hunch more than any real evidence, and hopefully he’s happy here, has a breakout season and signs an extension.
Where do people think western and B walker will fall in the draft at this early stage?

You make a great point about trading future picks on draft night. Port took advantage on us trying to get extra points.

Most likely we would have got a better deal pre draft.

 

[eastfreo75]

Who knows, maybe I’ll see it the same as the season progresses. He did what was required against Carlton which was what we need right now.

If we are having extra talls, I prefer them to be midfield capable so for me the dream might be Cox somehow becoming one of the three taller defenders and Logue being played ‘where ever’ or Cox becoming one of the three taller forwards and McCarthy playing ‘where ever’. The Cox version of that has him in the ruck, but I haven’t liked that at all.

I think that Cox,Pearce,Hamling and Logue can all play in the back half at the same time.

 

[Joao]

I see us finishing between 9th and 15th so I’m really interested to see how McDonald goes this year. With Hogan and Taberner always unavailable and the age of our younger kids I think we need a developing key forward with a high pick and seems like a decent draft for it.

Think our midfield just needs games though it could use a bit more explosiveness / speed. With the NGA / FS we have coming through we are absolutely set for small creative forwards and our back 6 is set - though a bit injury prone for my liking.

McDonald should be right in our range if he has a good year - otherwise Thilthorpe would be my other choice though i suspect we’ll need at least a top 5 pick for him at least

Agree with this. I have a line through Hogan so would be happy to draft a top end KPF.

 

[blue shark]

Agree with this. I have a line through Hogan so would be happy to draft a top end KPF.

I think you and I discussed the risks involved with Hogan before the trade on here.
I had a few disagreements with Dee supporters about being sold a pup, talent was never questioned.
Injury and now mental state it appears to be similar to HB, footy is poorer for the outcome.
Think we will keep an eye on McDonald rather than sell the farm.

 

[Joao]

I think you and I discussed the risks involved with Hogan before the trade on here.
I had a few disagreements with Dee supporters about being sold a pup, talent was never questioned.
Injury and now mental state it appears to be similar to HB, footy is poorer for the outcome.
Think we will keep an eye on McDonald rather than sell the farm.

It wouldn't be selling the farm for anyone (I am not married to McDonald at all). If we identify that Hogan is not a long term option then we would obviously consider top end KPF talents with our first pick this year and there seems to be at least 3 of them at this stage.

If Hogan can get back on track, then we don't have to so here is hoping for everyone's sake.

 

[maccamk]

Is Tayor confirmed as our rnd 1 WA kid returning home?

Nope


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

 

[theGav56]

I think that Cox,Pearce,Hamling and Logue can all play in the back half at the same time.

My preferred backline is;

Ryan Hamling Wilson​

Logue Pearce Young​

Replacing any of Ryan, Wilson or Young with Cox doesn't improve it.

Adding either Hill or Aish (and possibly Pina or Carter) could improve it. Along with Conca these are the players that seem to be under consideration as the extra defender, or defensive side midfielder, if required.

Cox is great cover for Hamling or Pearce while injured, and it should be a challenge he would be relishing. Cover for Logue too, although Hughes and Duman (and perhaps Watson) seem to fit closer to a like for like. If Cox was covering for Logue it probably shifts Hamling to third tall because I think he has similar capacity to play on talls and smalls, but better not to muck around too much.

 

[theGav56]

It wouldn't be selling the farm for anyone (I am not married to McDonald at all). If we identify that Hogan is not a long term option then we would obviously consider top end KPF talents with our first pick this year and there seems to be at least 3 of them at this stage.

If Hogan can get back on track, then we don't have to so here is hoping for everyone's sake.

Lets say Hogan does come back and plays half the season, his track record still doesn't suggest that we should be totally reliant on him. If by the end of the season none of Dixon, Cox or O'Reilly are looking like realistic KPF prospects, we probably need to keep looking.

I think the biggest threat to our forward structure is Darcy. If he is injured or his development stalls for whatever reason, the only realistic option we have is to shift Lobb in there, and he is looking like our most important KPF at the moment. Bringing Meek in would be great for his development, but frightening.

 

[fnerd]

Lets say Hogan does come back and plays half the season, his track record still doesn't suggest that we should be totally reliant on him.

Yeah that’s still my big issue with hogan.

 

[Joao]

Lets say Hogan does come back and plays half the season, his track record still doesn't suggest that we should be totally reliant on him. If by the end of the season none of Dixon, Cox or O'Reilly are looking like realistic KPF prospects, we probably need to keep looking.

I think the biggest threat to our forward structure is Darcy. If he is injured or his development stalls for whatever reason, the only realistic option we have is to shift Lobb in there, and he is looking like our most important KPF at the moment. Bringing Meek in would be great for his development, but frightening.

Cox has shown that he is likely to be at least serviceable. O'Reilly was obviously long term as he was barely WAFL standard when we picked him up. So this season I think at best we will find out whether Dixon is willing to do what it takes.

In any event, I think all 3 are irrelevant unless they demonstrate they are top tier. We clearly have our top end KPF eggs in Hogans basket (both in trade cost and salary). I think he is the only piece that can move that will see us target a top end KPF in the draft.*

*Exception being a generational talent which I think you take regardless of list.

Darcy being out doesn't bother me. I don't rate Lobb highly as a permanent forward. All his best work is around the ground (ie the weekend). I am also happy for Meek to get a run. He has had a few years in the system. I am happy for the younger KPP to get a go, even if they take all year to get anywhere.

 

[theGav56]

Cox has shown that he is likely to be at least serviceable. O'Reilly was obviously long term as he was barely WAFL standard when we picked him up. So this season I think at best we will find out whether Dixon is willing to do what it takes.

In any event, I think all 3 are irrelevant unless they demonstrate they are top tier. We clearly have our top end KPF eggs in Hogans basket (both in trade cost and salary). I think he is the only piece that can move that will see us target a top end KPF in the draft.*

*Exception being a generational talent which I think you take regardless of list.

Darcy being out doesn't bother me. I don't rate Lobb highly as a permanent forward. All his best work is around the ground (ie the weekend). I am also happy for Meek to get a run. He has had a few years in the system. I am happy for the younger KPP to get a go, even if they take all year to get anywhere.

Yep.

I'm happy for Meek to get a run as well, but in terms of a developing ruck that probably puts him 2-3 seasons away from being useful at AFL level, and most likely means Darcy is injured, which is a looming concern. Is Meek, like Darcy, only a ruck, or is he useful in other capacities?

 

[Joao]

Yep.

I'm happy for Meek to get a run as well, but in terms of a developing ruck that probably puts him 2-3 seasons away from being useful at AFL level, and most likely means Darcy is injured, which is a looming concern. Is Meek, like Darcy, only a ruck, or is he useful in other capacities?

Never seen him play outside a few highlights.

 

[eastfreo75]

My preferred backline is;

Ryan Hamling Wilson​

Logue Pearce Young​

Replacing any of Ryan, Wilson or Young with Cox doesn't improve it.

Adding either Hill or Aish (and possibly Pina or Carter) could improve it. Along with Conca these are the players that seem to be under consideration as the extra defender, or defensive side midfielder, if required.

Cox is great cover for Hamling or Pearce while injured, and it should be a challenge he would be relishing. Cover for Logue too, although Hughes and Duman (and perhaps Watson) seem to fit closer to a like for like. If Cox was covering for Logue it probably shifts Hamling to third tall because I think he has similar capacity to play on talls and smalls, but better not to muck around too much.

Logue, Hamling and Pearce can play on smalls.

Plus, you can select 7 defenders.

If Cox (un-signed) plays in the seconds, we will lose him for very little to Adelaide or Port.

Cox’s performance is far in front of players at the same age.

If we can’t fix him in the back, then he must play forward.

As for Hughes, Watson, and Duiman they seriously only depth players. All have major defects in their games.

 

[theGav56]

Logue, Hamling and Pearce can play on smalls.

Plus, you can select 7 defenders.

If Cox (un-signed) plays in the seconds, we will lose him for very little to Adelaide or Port.

Cox’s performance is far in front of players at the same age.

If we can’t fix him in the back, then he must play forward.

As for Hughes, Watson, and Duiman they seriously only depth players. All have major defects in their games.

I had Hill and Aish (and Pina and Carter) as the 7th defender. Much prefer that to another KPP. Fast forwards are more of a worry for us than fourth talls. Logue, Hamling and Pearce can play on smalls, but I don't like it. Three tall defenders is heaps, and even then one of them needs to be very capable of playing smaller. I see swingman as his best option (but for me rotating tall mids forward is a better strategy, or having ruck/forwards) or KPF. I definitely value his capacity to play at either end, just don't have him in the preferred back or front 6 for now.

I agree with you and listed Hughes, Watson and Duman as depth, not as best defenders. I think Cox is in the transition zone; he is depth as a developing player with potential, but fringe best 22. He can change that this season especially given the opportunity he has right now. If the club really rates him then contract negotiations should be happening now rather than when Pearce and especially Hamling return. If not, quite possible he will look for further opportunity. Adelaide and Port could well be targeting him, but I think their KPP depth is reasonable. If they want to guarantee him a best 22 position, fair enough.

 

[Cesoir]

Never seen him play outside a few highlights.

I have watched him fairly closely at Peel and at training because I think he has a high ceiling. He has always looked a bit "soft" to me - not in a bad way, but just too easily out-bodied and pushed under / off the ball. In one of the inra club matches he went up against Darcy and Darcy just treated him with disdain.

Today I watched and there was a real fire in Meek's eyes, and he looked like he wasn't going to let Sean push him around. He was quite physical, and was certainly not disgraced. I feel a bit sorry for him, as Sandi was constantly giving Sean one on one advice, whereas Lloyd was pretty much left to his own devices. Not sure what that is all about, but I would have thought you'd mentor them both equally if you want them both to progress.

Meek is the best 2 km runner out of the big buys, and has reasonable skills, I just think he needs to develop a harder edge. If he does that he could probably play as a ruck / forward and lead up to the wing to give them a bail out. I suspect he will be spending a lot of time at Peel, but would love to see him given a run at the big time.

 

[blue shark]

I have watched him fairly closely at Peel and at training because I think he has a high ceiling. He has always looked a bit "soft" to me - not in a bad way, but just too easily out-bodied and pushed under / off the ball. In one of the inra club matches he went up against Darcy and Darcy just treated him with disdain.

Today I watched and there was a real fire in Meek's eyes, and he looked like he wasn't going to let Sean push him around. He was quite physical, and was certainly not disgraced. I feel a bit sorry for him, as Sandi was constantly giving Sean one on one advice, whereas Lloyd was pretty much left to his own devices. Not sure what that is all about, but I would have thought you'd mentor them both equally if you want them both to progress.

Meek is the best 2 km runner out of the big buys, and has reasonable skills, I just think he needs to develop a harder edge. If he does that he could probably play as a ruck / forward and lead up to the wing to give them a bail out. I suspect he will be spending a lot of time at Peel, but would love to see him given a run at the big time.

Needs to change His name, but I doubt Darcy will play every game so he needs to be ready.
Most of our big guys don't have that killer instinct that makes lesser players hearing footsteps.
Meek, Cox, Dixon, need to start pushing their weight around or it's going to be a long year.