List Mgmt. 2020 Young Talent time

[arsesmart]

Dangerfield would of been interesting in 2007. But 2007 was unique as 3 WA kids went in the top 10: Chris Masten to west coast at Pick 3, Cale Morton to demons at pick 4 and Rhys Palmer to Freo at pick 7.

Clayton Hinkley was a wasted pick at 24, Tayte Pears was taken at pick 23. Cale Hooker was taken at pick 54 in the 2007 draft too.

Broadie Grundy, As great as he is, I dont think he would of stayed long at freo being Sandis number 2.

Rory Lobb was taken as a 2nd rounder in 2013. Freo could of got him with a late pick in 2012 or early pick in 2013. Fancy that, Some Mature agers can stand out and get taken in the 2nd round.

People talk about tim kelly and why neither west coast or Freo got him earlier. Yeah he stod out in 2017 WAFL season averaging 28 disposals a game. In 2016 he was averaging 20 disposals a game. In 2015 he was averaging 20 disposals a game. So in 2015 and 2016 he didnt stand out. 2017, he averaged 28 disposals a game and kicked 20-25 WAFL goals that season.

You look back at 2011: Freo had pick 29, Alex Forster, a Norwood kid. Joel Hamling, Shane Kersten and Brad Hill were all taken just after. Ironic as all 3 joined freo in the 2016 Trade Period.

Speaking of Norwood in the SANFL, this was around the time a Few Norwood players got drafted in the AFL. It wasnt the teenagers that were picked up, it was those Mature agers aged between 20-25 that were taken.

Paul Puopolo was taken by the hawks in the 2010 draft. Then some of those mature agers that won flags with norwood in that 2012-14 3 peat got drafted in AFL lists. Such as Dean Terlich, Alex Gregoriou, Matthew Panos.


Alex Forster was on our list in 2012-3. Plays one game and returns to Norwood. Plays in the 2014 SANFL flag with Norwood.

James Aish played in the 2012 and 2013 Norwood flags before he got picked up by an AFL club.

Causality doesn't quite work this way but imagine if you swapped Brad Hill out of the Hawks and into Freo for the 2013 GF...a good chance there'd be a different result.

 

[arsesmart]

Bingo. It wasnt a bad depth of Rucks.

Sandilands lasted 17-18 years. I have Always been a Jono Griffin fan. He wasnt the best ruckman in history but always busted his gut and tried his hardest. A 24-27 year old Jono Griffin would be a very good 2nd ruck behind a 22 year old Sean Darcy. Zac Clarke looked like an Athlete. Well..... he had a basketball background. Injuries hurt him in the end.

Hannath was a dud. 20 games in 4 years. He was depth. Moller was just a rookie listed player.

Griffin pre-knee injury was a fair way in front of where Darcy is now.

Hannath was a pre-season draft pick and he had his moments, but was always a bit of a "see if we can pluck on" kinda pick.

 

[CapitalA]

Griffin pre-knee injury was a fair way in front of where Darcy is now.

Hannath was a pre-season draft pick and he had his moments, but was always a bit of a "see if we can pluck on" kinda pick.

he did his knee when he was 27....Darcy is 21 thats 6 more years of development

 

[Freomaniac]

Causality doesn't quite work this way but imagine if you swapped Brad Hill out of the Hawks and into Freo for the 2013 GF...a good chance there'd be a different result.

Yeah that could be one Scenario... Again.... Imagine If Anthony Morabito didnt do his knee, I would of Chosen a fully fit Morabito over cam sutcliffe or nick suban in the 2013 Grand final.

Another factor is, I wish freo somehow picked up a project tall in the 2007 draft such as a cale hooker. Or even use a 2nd rounder or late pick to get a shaun Mckernan or a Tom Lee. We needed that 2nd tall forward that was half decent.

Griffin pre-knee injury was a fair way in front of where Darcy is now.

Hannath was a pre-season draft pick and he had his moments, but was always a bit of a "see if we can pluck on" kinda pick.

Yeah Griffin Pre-knee injury could of been All australian in 2013. His form was that good. I am glad he lasted a fair bit at freo. Again, it wont hurt getting a 23-26 year old Jono Griffin as a depth ruckman as you know he would play 50-60 games over a 5-7 year period.

Hannath had his moments. At the time he was behind Sandilands, Griffin and Zac Clarke.

 

[Freomaniac]

he did his knee when he was 27....Darcy is 21 thats 6 more years of development

true Griffin did his knee but when you compare how they were drafted and developed, its 2 different scenarios.

Jono Griffin was a Rookie pick In the 2004 National draft/2005 Rookie draft. So he didnt play any games for the crows In the 2005 and 2006 seasons. He was skinny when drafted. His debut year was 2007 and he was 21 years and 77 days when he played his 1st game. He was behind the likes of Matthew Clarke, Ivan Maric and Rhett Biglands. thats why he only played 41 games from 2005-10. He then gets traded to freo and plays 56 games from 2011-17.

Sean Darcy was taken by freo wih pick 38 in the 2016 AFL draft. So he was taken early compared to Griffin. Darcy was more built up as well. Darcys debut game in Round 14 vs geelong in geelong. He was only aged 19 years old and 13 days when he played that debut game. So he has played 25 games from 2017-19, The bloke is now our 1st choice ruckman.

 

[Scham]

FFS it’s could have!

 

[CapitalA]

true Griffin did his knee but when you compare how they were drafted and developed, its 2 different scenarios.

Jono Griffin was a Rookie pick In the 2004 National draft/2005 Rookie draft. So he didnt play any games for the crows In the 2005 and 2006 seasons. He was skinny when drafted. His debut year was 2007 and he was 21 years and 77 days when he played his 1st game. He was behind the likes of Matthew Clarke, Ivan Maric and Rhett Biglands. thats why he only played 41 games from 2005-10. He then gets traded to freo and plays 56 games from 2011-17.

Sean Darcy was taken by freo wih pick 38 in the 2016 AFL draft. So he was taken early compared to Griffin. Darcy was more built up as well. Darcys debut game in Round 14 vs geelong in geelong. He was only aged 19 years old and 13 days when he played that debut game. So he has played 25 games from 2017-19, The bloke is now our 1st choice ruckman.

Yeah maybe expecting a bit much from the young guy giving him the responsibility of 1st ruck but there is no way I can agree that Jono Griffin was ahead of Darcy at the same age. It is a fairly skewed point of view to compare a 21 yr old ruck man to a 25-27 yr old ruck man.

Not sure how Griffin is anywhere near Darcy let alone ahead of him. (My original reply to arsesmart comment)

 

[Freomaniac]

Yeah maybe expecting a bit much from the young guy giving him the responsibility of 1st ruck but there is no way I can agree that Jono Griffin was ahead of Darcy at the same age. It is a fairly skewed point of view to compare a 21 yr old ruck man to a 25-27 yr old ruck man.

Not sure how Griffin is anywhere near Darcy let alone ahead of him. (My original reply to arsesmart comment)

Theres expectations now for Darcy as the only other competition he has in the ruck is Rory Lobb, who is a decent ruck but rather play full forward and Llyod meek, who still hasnt played an AFL game yet and to be Honest should of played a game or 2 last season with his WAFL form he was playing in the 1st half of last season.

So if Darcy isnt ready to lead the ruck? Who else should lead it?



Rucks take time to Develop. some take a good 3-5 seasons to bulk up their body, even then its not certain that they will be good. There has been many rucks I can think of that has played 10-20 games in a 3-5 year stretch and then goes to Another club and does well with the 2nd club.


Sam Jacobs played 17 games in 4 years for the Blues From 2007-10. He then plays 184 games for the crows from 2011-2019. Bit unlucky to get All Australian in 2012. Sandilands got the AA ruck spot in 2014 and Todd Goldstein got the AA ruck spot in 2015. Jacobs was good enough to get it in 2014 or 2015 if the Selectors were fair on him.

Another example is Toby Nankervis. Plays 12 games for the swans in 2014-16, goes to Richmond in 2017. Plays 59 games from 2017-19 and gets 2 premiership medals.

 

[Dockeroo]

Theres expectations now for Darcy as the only other competition he has in the ruck is Rory Lobb, who is a decent ruck but rather play full forward and Llyod meek, who still hasnt played an AFL game yet and to be Honest should of played a game or 2 last season with his WAFL form he was playing in the 1st half of last season.

So if Darcy isnt ready to lead the ruck? Who else should lead it?



Rucks take time to Develop. some take a good 3-5 seasons to bulk up their body, even then its not certain that they will be good. There has been many rucks I can think of that has played 10-20 games in a 3-5 year stretch and then goes to Another club and does well with the 2nd club.


Sam Jacobs played 17 games in 4 years for the Blues From 2007-10. He then plays 184 games for the crows from 2011-2019. Bit unlucky to get All Australian in 2012. Sandilands got the AA ruck spot in 2014 and Todd Goldstein got the AA ruck spot in 2015. Jacobs was good enough to get it in 2014 or 2015 if the Selectors were fair on him.

Another example is Toby Nankervis. Plays 12 games for the swans in 2014-16, goes to Richmond in 2017. Plays 59 games from 2017-19 and gets 2 premiership medals.

You have highlighted the key question here. Is Meek a dud or a decent prospect? It’s his 3rd year. You’d hope the club has a fair idea at this point. If he follows Jacobs and Nankervis trajectory, he should play a few games this year and then become a real option from next season, and we will be well stocked with both him and Darcy.
If he’s a turkey however... then we need a new ruck somewhere?

 

[more_of_bito]

Gees I reckon I could have picked a seriously good team if we raise EVERY WA PLAYER PICKED BEFORE OUR PIVK IN THE LAST 10 YEARS! Gees build a bridge.....our drafting hasn’t been great, get over it.

I think we are in a great spot with our core of 19-24 yo. Young and Serong look like A graders throw in Henry and am more than comfortable, but guarantee there’s a Brownlow medalist before our pick.

If it’s not to do with 2020 draftees delete it mods..

 

[Superkoops]

With regards to rucks these shorter games are making the dual ruck obsolete and therefore teams will get away with less ruckman on their list. The Eagles have an issue with Hickey and he will essentially become obsolete.

Darcy is fine. Needs to continue to work on athleticism and ability to cover the ground but for mine he has shown a bit up forward.

A lot will come down to Meek. If he can show a bit after the resumption then we may recruit a ruck/forward but no way we would have another ruck taking up a list spot. If Meek isn’t up to it then absolutely we need another ruck on the list.

 

[Taylor]

They will go with less talls until sides start controlling the ball mark to mark, with the shorter game time meaning more burst efforts from the talls without them being cooked in the 4th.

 

[Hazelsnuts]

With regards to rucks these shorter games are making the dual ruck obsolete and therefore teams will get away with less ruckman on their list. The Eagles have an issue with Hickey and he will essentially become obsolete.

Darcy is fine. Needs to continue to work on athleticism and ability to cover the ground but for mine he has shown a bit up forward.

A lot will come down to Meek. If he can show a bit after the resumption then we may recruit a ruck/forward but no way we would have another ruck taking up a list spot. If Meek isn’t up to it then absolutely we need another ruck on the list.

Darcy will get chewed up by the likes of Tim English.
I like Darcy but I fear his type of ruck may be superseded by a oversized mid.

 

[Taylor]

Darcy will get chewed up by the likes of Tim English.
I like Darcy but I fear his type of ruck may be superseded by a oversized mid.

In open play I expect he will beat Darcy, I'd hope Darcy beats him at the ruck contests.

 

[arsesmart]

With regards to rucks these shorter games are making the dual ruck obsolete and therefore teams will get away with less ruckman on their list. The Eagles have an issue with Hickey and he will essentially become obsolete.

Darcy is fine. Needs to continue to work on athleticism and ability to cover the ground but for mine he has shown a bit up forward.

A lot will come down to Meek. If he can show a bit after the resumption then we may recruit a ruck/forward but no way we would have another ruck taking up a list spot. If Meek isn’t up to it then absolutely we need another ruck on the list.

Darcy is absolutely fine and has plenty of promise. But with any sort of rating, the criteria you use is critical.

Darcy as a developing ruck is great. As a No. 1 ruck from what he's produced so far, he's not rating as well. It's particularly noticeable what it does to team performance when Lobb has gone into the ruck in the games they've been playing together. Lobb playing more time in the ruck against Essendon and we win that game.

Of course, this may change by the end of the season or into next year, as he develops, but it's definitely more aligned with where he's at to rate him according to a developing category.

 

[Moo]

Hannath had his moments. At the time he was behind Sandilands, Griffin and Zac Clarke.

I remember when I saw the Queen Mary side step Hannath in a tackling drill ...it was at that point that I started to have my doubts as to whether he would make it.

 

[Joao]

I remember when I saw the Queen Mary side step Hannath in a tackling drill ...it was at that point that I started to have my doubts as to whether he would make it.

The Queen Mary did a 8.01s agility test at the combine in her draft year, IIRC.

 

[Moo]

The Queen Mary did a 8.01s agility test at the combine in her draft year, IIRC.

Yes but when it came to match practice simulation - she was all at sea with her leading patterns.

 

[Freomaniac]

I remember when I saw the Queen Mary side step Hannath in a tackling drill ...it was at that point that I started to have my doubts as to whether he would make it.

Ah Moo, how are you champ?

Yes the Queen Mary was big, but not as big as the titanic, So I will give Hannath some excuse for that.

I love your sig on the bottom....

"I go for Freo ....throw your insults...I'm vaccinated against pain and disappointment"


No doubt you are tougher than tough man tony abbotts budgie smugglers. lol

 

[Moo]

Ah Moo, how are you champ?

Yes the Queen Mary was big, but not as big as the titanic, So I will give Hannath some excuse for that.

I love your sig on the bottom....

"I go for Freo ....throw your insults...I'm vaccinated against pain and disappointment"


No doubt you are tougher than tough man tony abbotts budgie smugglers. lol

Mate - I'm good.

Enjoyed the COVID break in all things sports ....can't recall a time when I've not been coaching, managing, taxi service and generally involved in Community Sports.

However thought I'd better get in here and do some footy pre-season training trash talk practice.

I'm a little behind (so you admit you're an Ass I can hear my father shout) - who is the current Scape Goat? Travis?

 

[Freomaniac]

Mate - I'm good.

Enjoyed the COVID break in all things sports ....can't recall a time when I've not been coaching, managing, taxi service and generally involved in Community Sports.

However thought I'd better get in here and do some footy pre-season training trash talk practice.

I'm a little behind (so you admit you're an Ass I can hear my father shout) - who is the current Scape Goat? Travis?

The COVID hasnt really affected me to be honest. As a bloke in that 20-39 year bracket, If your on lock down on your house you are reduced to these options....

-Playing games on the Playstation or x box or PC
-Watching random stuff on youtube or on a i pad or Mobile phone.
-Drinking Alcohol


Saying that, Yeah Travis Coyler is the scape goat. Traded a future 4th rounder for him. Traded freos whole future on him Apparently

Some Media people say Freo have no Wingers or Outside mids because we traded out Brad Hill and Ed Langdon.

I call Bull****. Although I am gutted Brad Hill and Ed Langdon were traded off, I dont think The outside mid stocks isnt too bad.

Stephen Hill has had injuries. But Fully fit, he is freos best outside mid in my opinion.

Darcy Tucker is entrenched in the 22. Solid on the back flanks and can play both inside or outside mid.

Adam Cerra, out pick 5 in 2017 has the talent and skills to play both inside and outside mid as well.

Stefan Giro I am hoping plays a few games in the forward flank and on the wing.


So going by this View..... only way Travis Colyer gets near the selection table, is when we get a heap of injuries.

 

[theGav56]

The COVID hasnt really affected me to be honest. As a bloke in that 20-39 year bracket, If your on lock down on your house you are reduced to these options....

-Playing games on the Playstation or x box or PC
-Watching random stuff on youtube or on a i pad or Mobile phone.
-Drinking Alcohol


Saying that, Yeah Travis Coyler is the scape goat. Traded a future 4th rounder for him. Traded freos whole future on him Apparently

Some Media people say Freo have no Wingers or Outside mids because we traded out Brad Hill and Ed Langdon.

I call Bull****. Although I am gutted Brad Hill and Ed Langdon were traded off, I dont think The outside mid stocks isnt too bad.

Stephen Hill has had injuries. But Fully fit, he is freos best outside mid in my opinion.

Darcy Tucker is entrenched in the 22. Solid on the back flanks and can play both inside or outside mid.

Adam Cerra, out pick 5 in 2017 has the talent and skills to play both inside and outside mid as well.

Stefan Giro I am hoping plays a few games in the forward flank and on the wing.


So going by this View..... only way Travis Colyer gets near the selection table, is when we get a heap of injuries.

Not a mention for Acres?

 

[FreoRicci]

In open play I expect he will beat Darcy, I'd hope Darcy beats him at the ruck contests.

English is overrated. Should really be a lead up forward. He’s 205cm. Grundy is 202cm.
We got the mature version of a ruck.
English still needs to add 10kg, and that’ll be 3 years.
Darcy is fine. He has had good moments tbh. He stood up against Geelong last year, battled manfully throughout the end of a season.. as a third year ruckman. Number 1 ruck already. That’s significant.

 

[Kapow!!!]

English is overrated. Should really be a lead up forward. He’s 205cm. Grundy is 202cm.
We got the mature version of a ruck.
English still needs to add 10kg, and that’ll be 3 years.
Darcy is fine. He has had good moments tbh. He stood up against Geelong last year, battled manfully throughout the end of a season.. as a third year ruckman. Number 1 ruck already. That’s significant.

Can you really have a bad game in the ruck against Geelong? That's kind of like saying he had a really inspiring performance against a tumbleweed.

 

[Taylor]

Can you really have a bad game in the ruck against Geelong? That's kind of like saying he had a really inspiring performance against a tumbleweed.

How about his game against Port Adelaide's premiership ruck and Ryder where they couldn't get involved in the forth and we ran away with it?