Training 2021/22 Preseason Thread Lessssf*ngo

Remove this Banner Ad

AnEmptyChair said:
Yeah, there's definitely competition there. I'm just an enormous fan of Taylor and rate him highly.

Havign wingers able to clunk it is underrated too IMO. They're often a get out kick under pressure and those marks down the line after a hurried kick relieve a heap of pressure.
Click to expand...


What’s his tank like? Can he run up and down the wing all day?
 
Val Keating said:
What’s his tank like? Can he run up and down the wing all day?
Click to expand...
In terms of the guys he's competing with, I reckon only Stepho has got him covered in that respect. I really like what Jason did when he played on the wing in the SANFL, but I dunno if he's got the tank to consistently do that at AFL level. Powell is more an inside mid IMO, rather than a winger, and Thomas will play anywhere, but not a permanent winger. Polec is definitely the interesting one, especially if he's been as good this preseason as some people have said. He adds a lot to us if he's playing well.
 

Log in to remove this ad.

AnEmptyChair said:
In terms of the guys he's competing with, I reckon only Stepho has got him covered in that respect. I really like what Jason did when he played on the wing in the SANFL, but I dunno if he's got the tank to consistently do that at AFL level. Powell is more an inside mid IMO, rather than a winger, and Thomas will play anywhere, but not a permanent winger. Polec is definitely the interesting one, especially if he's been as good this preseason as some people have said. He adds a lot to us if he's playing well.
Click to expand...

I like him and he had some good games up the ground especially in the second half of the season, but this is the thing with being a bottom side, you tend to bring in highly talented alternatives every year, so you better make every post a winner.

I don't expect JHF to play all day on a wing, but it's likely that's where he's going to spend his 30% of game time when further up the ground.

Stephenson is in a completely different class, as you said. Even he is pushed out of the wing at times.

Even though Powell and Phillips are better suited at center bounces, they will definitely be used off the wing for major %'s. Powell was used off the wing a hell of a lot in his first few games.

Thomas as well starts quite a few center bounces coming off the square.

McDonald has been used as the defensive winger etc.

I don't think Taylor is anywhere close to being a permanent winger and I don't think Noble really plays with permanent wingers. He tends to use them as open slots where he rolls up other half forwards and midfielders into each wing.

But he does like that one defensive side midfielder (was Dumont in 2020, then McDonald 2021).


Im struggling to fit Taylor anywhere, especially as he's going to be competing with Lazarro, Polec and maybe even Goater, who I can see eventually rotating up to the wing from half back, like McDonald does.

We have a huge glut of competing half forwards also. As good as Taylor looked up the ground, I think Ford has pushed him out of a potential forward slot, as he's looked better forward than Taylor has IMO.

We have a lot of competition for spots (when injury free hopefully), 2022 is going to be a really interesting year for a multitude of those 2nd and 3rd year players who need game time. Rather than gifting games, a lot of them are going to have to earn it through strong VFL form.

I think both Taylor and Ford start in the VFL tbh.


Taylor can cut his teeth as a full time winger in the VFL, it's honestly probably the best thing for his development at this stage.

Edwards, Curtis, Ford, Spicer with Taylor drifting in there has a bit of X-Factor for a VFL forward line.
 
Last edited:
Sphynx said:
Ford will be around the mark, he might even be sub quite a bit.

JHF has probably market corrected him to an extent, as Im sure he will get an extended run in that half forward role.

It really comes down to who Noble plays in that last small/medium forward roll - Mahoney, Turner, Curtis, C.Taylor, Ford?

I think JHF (initially), Stepho, Zurhaar, Larkey, CCJ are locks. I think Comben will be playing also. So that's 6 already....

The VFL side will certainly have a strong forward line if all fit...
Click to expand...
That's a tough spot to steal but my read is that Ford did just about everything right in his limited chances last year. I think he has made a strong case and if he presses early this year he can jump up the list. My take:

Assume JHF will be in barring unforseen circumstances Rd 1.
Mahoney has a spot to lose as well IMO based on how much we've played him.
Turner will not play as a small forward - pressure or otherwise - again unless forced through injuries to others.

That leaves Curtis, C. Taylor and Ford.
Ford is IMO most likely next cab off the rank based on how he went last year.

TennisPlayerAndy said:
Taylor needs to bulk up.

His 1v1 contested stuff is an issue, especially if on a wing.
Click to expand...

Agree. Haven't seem him this year but based on last year he needs bulk, a slash in puppy fat and some more work overall to build his running. He has tricks and is young but competition is building. Our emphasis on midfield over the last couple of years makes it harder for specialist small players IMO, particularly when some of those mids have real talent up forward (notably Stephenson and Tomas who have proven ability to roll forward, as well as JHF who looks similar and has the pedigree to do the same). I reckon most coaches would rather stack more pure midfield talent and have that kind of flexibility over a player that purely plays a more specialist role unless they do that role to perfection. Taylor is one of a few blokes that needs to really come on in the next 12-18 months.

Sphynx said:
I like him and he had some good games up the ground especially in the second half of the season, but this is the thing with being a bottom side, you tend to bring in highly talented alternatives every year, so you better make every post a winner.

I don't expect JHF to play all day on a wing, but it's likely that's where he's going to spend his 30% of game time when further up the ground.

Stephenson is in a completely different class, as you said. Even he is pushed out of the wing at times.

Even though Powell and Phillips are better suited at center bounces, they will definitely be used off the wing for major %'s. Powell was used off the wing a hell of a lot in his first few games.

Thomas as well starts quite a few center bounces coming off the square.

McDonald has been used as the defensive winger etc.

I don't think Taylor is anywhere close to being a permanent winger and I don't think Noble really plays with permanent wingers. He tends to use them as open slots where he rolls up other half forwards and midfielders into each wing.

But he does like that one defensive side midfielder (was Dumont in 2020, then McDonald 2021).


Im struggling to fit Taylor anywhere, especially as he's going to be competing with Lazarro, Polec and maybe even Goater, who I can see eventually rotating up to the wing from half back, like McDonald does.

We have a huge glut of competing half forwards also. As good as Taylor looked up the ground, I think Ford has pushed him out of a potential forward slot, as he's looked better forward than Taylor has IMO.

We have a lot of competition for spots (when injury free hopefully), 2022 is going to be a really interesting year for a multitude of those 2nd and 3rd year players who need game time. Rather than gifting games, a lot of them are going to have to earn it through strong VFL form.

I think both Taylor and Ford start in the VFL tbh.


Taylor can cut his teeth as a full time winger in the VFL, it's honestly probably the best thing for his development at this stage.

Edwards, Curtis, Ford, Spicer with Taylor drifting in there has a bit of X-Factor for a VFL forward line.
Click to expand...

Well said and little to disagree with. Notably the bold, Lmac as you say played that role and IMO Turner has some claims. From what I've seen we play him somewhat flexibly across the backline or the middle depending on the right matchup for him. Taylor and Ford in the VFL seems the most likely with a full list. Ford is a lot more lively as a forward to date, early days though.
 
Last edited:
shintemaster said:
That's a tough spot to steal but my read is that Ford did just about everything right in his limited chances last year. I think he has made a strong case and if he presses early this year he can jump up the list. My take:

Assume JHF will be in barring unforseen circumstances Rd 1.
Mahoney has a spot to lose as well IMO based on how much we've played him.
Turner will not play as a small forward - pressure or otherwise - again unless forced through injuries to others.

That leaves Curtis, C. Taylor and Ford.
Ford is IMO most likely next cab off the rank based on how he went last year.
Click to expand...

Noble absolutely loves Mahoney - Rightly so, works harder then most on the track, is extremely unselfish in how he plays & provides genuine forward pressure. I cannot see him being left out in round 1.
 
shintemaster said:
That's a tough spot to steal but my read is that Ford did just about everything right in his limited chances last year. I think he has made a strong case and if he presses early this year he can jump up the list. My take:

Assume JHF will be in barring unforseen circumstances Rd 1.
Mahoney has a spot to lose as well IMO based on how much we've played him.
Turner will not play as a small forward - pressure or otherwise - again unless forced through injuries to others.

That leaves Curtis, C. Taylor and Ford.
Ford is IMO most likely next cab off the rank based on how he went last year.
Click to expand...

You are forgetting Comben and CCJ.

We are very likely playing 1 or even 2 less small/mediums in the forward line this year than we have over the last few years.

Larkey, Zurhaar, CCJ, Comben, Stephenson, JHF is already 6.

It's not just Curtis, C.Taylor and Ford. It's Mahoney, its also Spicer who has looked vastly improved in pre-season.

The way I see it, C.Taylor, Ford, Mahoney, Spicer and Curtis are all competing for a single spot.
 
Noble wants two rucks and we have been crying out for a genuine CHF since Waite retired.

We are mad if we don't play all of, Larkey, Comben and CCJ in the one side, it is a genuinely dangerous tall setup and we have been undersized down there for a few seasons.

Comben would be playing most of the time between the arcs anyway, he's ultra mobile anyway.

Im excited at the prospect of a tall defender having to man CCJ rather than coming in over the top of Larkey all the time.

I think that 3 man setup is going to do some serious damage and will also have a knock on effect with Zurhaar.
 

(Log in to remove this ad.)

Merlin007 said:
CCJ wouldn't have signed if he was going to miss R1; a first up start would have been part of the deal
Click to expand...
I was just thinking the same thing.
He moved for opportunity's he was not getting at the tigers.
CCJ plays round 1.
Comben plays if we want to go tall.
I'm guessing some weeks we don't.
 
Sphynx said:
You are forgetting Comben and CCJ.

We are very likely playing 1 or even 2 less small/mediums in the forward line this year than we have over the last few years.

Larkey, Zurhaar, CCJ, Comben, Stephenson, JHF is already 6.

It's not just Curtis, C.Taylor and Ford. It's Mahoney, its also Spicer who has looked vastly improved in pre-season.

The way I see it, C.Taylor, Ford, Mahoney, Spicer and Curtis are all competing for a single spot.
Click to expand...
I'm not forgetting them, I'm just looking at the next in line small players. Need to write a full 22/3 to really flesh out a structure but in essence I agree with you although I think Comben is still up in the air for round 1.

Pretty much agree. Mahoney is well ahead though if that is the case. It does depend how we structure and how they go in intra clubs / early on. I have Curtis Taylor behind as a more pure forward but I also think he has played more as a linking structural player to date so it's not really apples to apples. Mahoney plays similar and is not exactly an aggressive / attacking small forward. I think Ford, Spicer and Curtis are more in that vein.
 
shintemaster said:
Pretty much agree. Mahoney is well ahead though if that is the case. It does depend how we structure and how they go in intra clubs / early on. I have Curtis Taylor behind as a more pure forward but I also think he has played more as a linking structural player to date so it's not really apples to apples.
Click to expand...

Curtis the dark horse imo.

Mahoney only really sort of dislodged Turner and other 0.5 goal per game type small forwards, i.e defensive forwards with zero offensive hurt factor.

If Curtis is a genuine goal kicking small, I'm sorry but that's dislodging a defensive small forward, not matter how hard they chase and tackle.

Goal kicking small forwards are premium players in the modern game.
 
Lightning Lazzaro said:
CCJ kicked 8 goals in his first 3 matches last year.

Sent from my SM-G991B using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Doesn’t take away from the fact he is predominantly a ruckman.

My point is the club shouldn’t just make room and play all three if it’s going to cause issues in keeping the ball in the forward line.

We struggled to keep the ball down there with only one tall forward.
 
Sphynx said:
Curtis the dark horse imo.

Mahoney only really sort of dislodged Turner and other 0.5 goal per game type small forwards, i.e defensive forwards with zero offensive hurt factor.

If Curtis is a genuine goal kicking small, I'm sorry but that's dislodging a defensive small forward, not matter how hard they chase and tackle.

Goal kicking small forwards are premium players in the modern game.
Click to expand...
The ideal is both a la Thomas / Betts etc at their prime - attacking, aggressive players that hurt defensively as well. Ford has that in him, Curtis I can't comment on as I haven't seen him play in anger. Spicer in theory would be similar. Mahoney will never be that type but IMO is a reasonable chance of rounding out a team long term as he offers flexibility over the ground and has a serious brain on him.

TennisPlayerAndy said:
Doesn’t take away from the fact he is predominantly a ruckman.

My point is the club shouldn’t just make room and play all three if it’s going to cause issues in keeping the ball in the forward line.

We struggled to keep the ball down there with only one tall forward.
Click to expand...

That's how they saw him but I'm not necessarily 100% convinced. Personally I see CCJ & Edwards as rotating rucks long term (with the time in each role to vary over time based on their ages and how they perform - Edwards is years off genuine ruck duties). It's really about the next 12-24 months and I see Noble playing around with these pieces. I don't see - nor want to see - Comben anywhere near the ruck. He's a thoroughbred and we should use him as such.

Psicosis said:
HF - Stephenson - Comben - JHF
FF - Mahoney - Larkey - Zurhaar

IC - CCJ
M/F Rotations - Thomas - LDU

If we play all 3 talls + Goldy, the pressure forward roles of Mahoney, JHF, Zurhaar & Stephenson/TT/LDU is f*kn critical.
Click to expand...
I don't see CCJ, Comben, Larkey & Goldy regularly as anything more than a sometimes intermediate solution at most. Post Goldy has to be the structural aim and in the interim we experiment somewhat. I think Edwards should be a 3+ year plan as a regular fixture. That gives us time to resolve Comben's spot and fitness and working out the balance between CCJ and Edwards as forwards / rucks. My uneducated guess is that Noble does not see a Goldy esque primary ruckman in our medium to long term.
 
Last edited:
I'm not sure we have seen enough of CCJ to be able to say he's more of a ruck or forward at this stage. That question will be answered over the next couple of years.

What I can say is that he kicked 4 goals in his 2nd AFL game. Also, from what I've seen at training, he will be a problem for opposition smalls and talls when the ball hits the ground. His pressure, tackling and desire for the loose ball is 1st class.

It's these attributes that I think will allow us to play the third tall without having to worry about what we sacrifice in terms of pressure.

Sent from my SM-G991B using Tapatalk
 
TennisPlayerAndy said:
Comben > CCJ if there can only be one of them in the side.

Comben is a pure forward whereas CCJ is predominantly a ruckman.
Click to expand...

Unless we are completely brain dead, we will be going with:

HF: Zurhaar - Comben - Sleevo
F: Jason - Larkey - Thomas

And with good reason, It’s completely nuts.

With all due respect to Mahony, who does he replace? Especially if Goater and Perez are in, which by all accounts is looking pretty likely that at least 1 going to play, spots are very limited.

Ford, Curtis and Mahony all vying for a spot on bench/Sub IMO.
 
Usayed Givashe said:
Unless we are completely brain dead, we will be going with:

HF: Zurhaar - Comben - Sleevo
F: Jason - Larkey - Thomas

And with good reason, It’s completely nuts.

With all due respect to Mahony, who does he replace? Especially if Goater and Perez are in, which by all accounts is looking pretty likely that at least 1 going to play, spots are very limited.

Ford, Curtis and Mahony all vying for a spot on bench/Sub IMO.
Click to expand...
Who's wing/midfield in your scenario there? Thomas and Stepho could both be mids. I think that wing position is the most interesting because we've got about 5 or 6 guys that can player there, but other than Polec it's probably fair to say that none are natural in that position, which is very different to being a midfielder.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

P
22 of 2024
Replies
12
Views
1K
Rob in Cologne
Rob in Cologne
giantroo
Player Watch #22: Taylor Goad - #20 in '23 ND - the Unicorn
5 6 7 8 9
Replies
202
Views
18K
koshari
koshari
ansonholt
Analysis Stats Thread
Replies
7
Views
303
Flawed Genius
Flawed Genius
hsquid
Strategy The positive thread
2
Replies
46
Views
2K
koshari
koshari
hsquid
Strategy The actual positive thread
2 3 4
Replies
84
Views
3K
StrokerAce
StrokerAce
giantroo
Player Watch #18: Wil Dawson - #22 in '23 ND - 11d/8m vs CFC in VFL - T.Lynch says 'best game for the club'
4 5 6 7 8
Replies
194
Views
19K
Heaps of fun
Heaps of fun
giantroo
List Mgmt. 2024 Trade & List Management Thread
72 73 74 75 76
Replies
2K
Views
104K
The Talent Scout
The Talent Scout

Remove this Banner Ad

Back
Top