Live Event 2021 AFL Draft live discussion

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JAKLAUGHING

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Nov 20, 2008
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Up until mid season of this year it was a very hard side to get into.Mix it up with Covid its hardly been ideal for any of our kids to show something.Never heard of Sampson Ryan?
You must have missed the suggestion that we may play Gibcus up fwd.
We still have Miller.Oh wait i guess he doesn't fall into your "developing" tall narrative.
And SStack says high...😀
 

Tiger_Of_Old

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AFL Draft 2021: Richmond launch next generation of premiership success with talented draft haul
Richmond considered trading up the order to secure its targets — but it didn’t need to. The Tigers recruiting boss has his say on the Tigers’ talented haul.


01:50
Tigers confident they've 'nailed' draft picks

AFL: With five picks inside the top 30, the Richmond Tigers are confident they've 'nailed' their selections in the 2021 Draft.



Richmond believes it has stockpiled the elite talent to launch its next generation of premiership success after nailing its best national draft hand since 2004.
The Tigers’ attempt to defy gravity and the AFL’s punishing equalisation measures got off to a perfect start after a second straight night where the picks fell Richmond’s way.
Richmond recruiting manager Matthew Clarke said the Tigers considered trading up in the draft order to secure both Trent Cotchin clone Tyler Sonsie and Tasmanian medium defender Sam Banks but instead secured them with late 20s picks.
Lightning quick midfielder Sonie went at pick 28, with Banks (pick 29) joining Jack Riewoldt in debuting for Tasmania’s Clarence football club at the age of 15, before battling a wrist injury this year that pushed him down draft boards.
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Richmond took Tyler Sonsie, Judson Clarke and Sam Banks on the second night.

Richmond took Tyler Sonsie, Judson Clarke and Sam Banks on the second night.
East Ringwood’s Judson Clarke (pick 30) is a lethal left-footed small forward coming off an ACL tear who Richmond believes could follow in the footsteps of high half forward Kane Lambert.
It came after Richmond selected intercept defender Josh Gibcus as a draft bargain at pick nine as well as clever Murray Bushrangers defender Tom Brown (pick 17) in the first round of the draft.
Not since the Tigers had five picks within the first 20 selections in the 2004 national draft have Richmond had a chance to dominate the early parts of the draft.
Clarke told the Herald Sun the Tigers had found the right blend of needs and elite talent as the club’s triple premiership stars eventually left the club.
“There are a couple of guys in Sonsie and Banks in particular who we were thinking about making enquiries about moving up the draft and the way things unfolded we got them both,” he said.
AFL Draft











“Sonsie has had some injury issues and Covid hasn’t been good for him in terms of the structure in his fotoy and he slipped through. When he came out of the Under-16s he was potentially in the top five in the country, so he’s really talented and he’s a mad Richmond boy, so he’s super stoked.
“We addressed our needs with Gibcus and we don’t just see him as a back, we believe he and Noah Balta can be swingmen and Brown and Banks have genuine running power with aerial ability. We are really excited to fill some needs early and then get some good players in the 20s.”
Richmond and Hawthorn both launched concerted bids to secure brilliant young Subiaco midfielder Matthew Johnson at pick 21 after he was the slider of night one of the national draft.
But the Dockers eventually secured him after considering their offers to nail a trio of local talents in the wake of Adam Cerra’s departure back to Melbourne.
Matt Johnson was left disappointed on the first night, but he didn’t have to wait long on the second night to hear his name called. Picture: Will Russell/AFL Photos via Getty Images

Matt Johnson was left disappointed on the first night, but he didn’t have to wait long on the second night to hear his name called. Picture: Will Russell/AFL Photos via Getty Images
 

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tigerfan1961

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I have no problem with others rating them. As much as I want to rate them too, I just don’t unfortunately. I’d love for the likes of RCD and Ross to prove me completely wrong, but they’re now heading to a stage where I want to see strong evidence before I rate them. I like the flashes of what I have seen from RCD in the centre, but he really needs a big preseason now because he doesn’t produce it consistently enough. It’s time he breaks out
According to Caesar on PRE, who sees most training sessions, RCD is killing it so far and up the front in most running sessions. Good signs
 

David C

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Gold Coast lose Greenwood pick up Constable. Rabble club.
Constable on minimum chips and no slower than Greenwood. They have just fixed their salary cap problems and can re-sign King and the SA boys now. NM get short term benefits but will harm the development of their young midfield. Think NM are the losers on that one.
 

juss

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When did Clarke take over as recruiting manager?
He was going to trade up for Banks at one point. Like wtf?
 

Nick Daffy 10

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Its good we have loaded up with defenders and half bank flankers, as our midfield will continue to be dominated and unable to win the contested ball, that's were the ball be most of the time.

We still have no one to stand up against the 1.9m high, 90kg+ midfielders of today which is our greatest weakness.
 

Sterge

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Just a thought re draft points system. If collingwood had not traded their 2021 first as they thought it would go on daicos, at pick 2 they would have got Callaghan and then daicos with 4. Too smart by half!

Question is if they held onto 4 would that have prompted a bid in the top 3 just to burn their pick?
 

G String

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I've gotta say - I'm left a little underwhelmed by our draft haul. Drafting is a statement of intent of how we want to play the game - one thing I like the RFC to do unconditionally is to play on the edge and play ruthless tough footy - I dont see any of that in any of our draftees unfortunately.

I like the Tiges to be the ones who dominate physically and not be bullied - this draft haul does not offer enough nastiness and grunt for my liking. It would've been good to see a couple of draftees with a ruthless edge - rather than see in the weakness column 'Competitiveness' and 'defensive pressure' - these are things that are hard to learn and competitiveness in particular is naturally instinctive and should be non-negotiable for the RFC IMO
 

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Lacustrus

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I've gotta say - I'm left a little underwhelmed by our draft haul. Drafting is a statement of intent of how we want to play the game - one thing I like the RFC to do unconditionally is to play on the edge and play ruthless tough footy - I dont see any of that in any of our draftees unfortunately.

I like the Tiges to be the ones who dominate physically and not be bullied - this draft haul does not offer enough nastiness and grunt for my liking. It would've been good to see a couple of draftees with a ruthless edge - rather than see in the weakness column 'Competitiveness' and 'defensive pressure' - these are things that are hard to learn and competitiveness in particular is naturally instinctive and should be non-negotiable for the RFC IMO
You may yet be surprised. These news guys would have been given the blessing of Hardwick and will not be timid players...
They wil be competitors
 

RockJobster0312

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Apart from Gibcus and Sonsie I thought it was just another draft where our recruiters try and outsmart our opponents instead of just picking what's there.

I feel like the pick we got from Collingwood helped us land Sonsie but then we just tried to play smart after that.

Would have even preferred to trade down picks 29 & 30 to get into the top 20 if I knew that's how it was going to go.

I actually think there’s a lot of truth about this, and I’d be interested in whether or not we ever get the full story.

I suspect that we made the Collingwood trade on the premise that come draft night - and with a number of teams looking to get back in - we can flip it for better draft capital in the 2022 draft.

I suspect that what killed that is that Freo, Hawthorn and other teams all were seemingly open to moving back or out for assets.

I suspect however that the asking price for other teams was too much and counter offers too little. Keeping in mind that there were zero deals of teams trading back in to the draft were made until well after pick 30.
 

Lsta062

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We


AFL rule changes force Tigers to chase kicks
Michael Gleeson

By Michael Gleeson


Richmond have mined the national draft with five picks inside 30, not only to avoid the free fall that follows an era of success, but out of necessity after AFL rule changes.
Recent changes to the rules have forced the Tigers to chase elite kicks in the draft. Those rule changes have partly taken Richmond’s high-pressure forward line crush game away from them, and helped favour the transition game rebounding from half-back. That has forced the Tigers to go to the draft with a higher priority on the kicking skills of their recruits.
Josh Gibcus high-fives Judson Clarke at the AFL Draft Victoria training day at Trevor Barker Oval recently.

Josh Gibcus high-fives Judson Clarke at the AFL Draft Victoria training day at Trevor Barker Oval recently.CREDIT:AFL PHOTOS
Having taken an intercept marking defender in Josh Gibcus with their first pick in the first round, the Tigers attacked runners who could kick with their next four picks.
They got Tom Brown at 17 on Wednesday night, and then with three picks from 28 to 30 on Thursday night they took Tyler Sonsie, an inside midfielder in the Darcy Parish mould, Sam Banks from Tasmania, and quick goal-kicking small forward and midfielder Judson Clarke with their last pick.

Judson Clarke.

Judson Clarke.CREDIT:AFL PHOTOS
“We have got some parts of our list that we needed bolstering in terms of depth,” Richmond recruiting manager Matthew Clarke said.
“We have always had a bit of a focus on kicking, but we’ve played such a high-pressure style of footy that that hasn’t been as paramount [in recent years]. But with a slight change in the AFL rules maybe there’s a bit more of a focus on that [kicking], and these boys that we have brought in, particularly Brown, Banks and Clark – Sonsie is a good kick but he is more of a midfielder, a running type – that’s what we targeted with those three.
“I think it’s [the list has] had a bit of a tweak.
“I think there’s some data suggesting there’s a bit more attacking from the back half, rather than from the front half turnover. You’d like to play a front half turnover game, but if there is ball movement from the back half that is where you have got to have ball users to do that.”

Clarke said the Tigers had looked at the experiences of Sydney, Hawthorn and Geelong in how they dealt with their lists after periods of success and wanted to attack this year’s draft to rejuvenate with youth after having secured players though free agency and trades in recent years.

“We targeted this draft as having some really good depth in the runners and obviously good key position players early. We wanted best available and it worked out really well that the best available for us was the big boy Josh [Gibcus].
“You have got to find that balance and we have taken some lessons out of some sides that have been successful, and obviously [the] Hawks and Cats and the Swans had some success there as well ... so we have looked at all those models and hopefully have taken a little bit out of everything and have that balance without going too heavy with one, with heavy in the draft, or heavy with trade and free agency.
“Hopefully we’ve been able to balance that with some free agents and trades that have come in over the last few years, and tonight we thought it was a good opportunity to add some talent.”
I heard we were ranked last or thereabouts for scores from kick-ins last season, suggesting that we were terrible transitioning from defence to our forward line because our terrible kicking skills from half-back in particular (midfield to forward line was also an issue, but our inside 50s dropped this season because of our kicking from half back IMO). Our selections do fill a need for better kicks on the wing and from half back.

Excited to see how this draft haul turns out for us
 

Rich01

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Competition for spots is a good thing

You said “you rate him higher than RCD”. I literally just said in my post that I don’t know if he is better than RCD or not. Why are you insisting that I am saying that I rate him higher than RCD when that’s not what I said?

I’d have been happier with Knevitt and/or Goater at 17 because they are prospect players that have the potential to address a bigger need for us than a general defender. I think Brown will end up a good player for us, but players like Goater, Johnson or Knevitt would have made more sense for us based on their potential to address a glaring need.

I would not have been any happier with Erasmus than Gibcus at pick 9 because I think Gibcus is a really good pick and fills a big need as well. This is why I said in my earlier post that I was fine with us passing on Erasmus.
So your summary is that you are unhappy because Goater, while having no idea if he will be better than RCD, should have been picked at 17 because he would compete for that one spot in the 22. Or Knevitt. Both guys with questionable kicking. Just because they could play a position that is a deficiency doesn’t mean that we pick up any player that has the potential to play mid. And they have to be good enough to make a difference in their position.

My view is that we need quality mids that will be best 22 eventually and be good enough to compete against opposition in their position on field. It seems like the club have faith in Brown to do this off half back.

I’d have loved Ward, Hobbs, Daicos, Callaghan, but they weren’t available to us. Guys who have the ability to make a difference in our best 22 seemed the priority for our picks, rather than speculative depth. And guys who were decent kicks, which Goater and Knevitt are a little questionable in this area.
 

RockJobster0312

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I've gotta say - I'm left a little underwhelmed by our draft haul. Drafting is a statement of intent of how we want to play the game - one thing I like the RFC to do unconditionally is to play on the edge and play ruthless tough footy - I dont see any of that in any of our draftees unfortunately.

I like the Tiges to be the ones who dominate physically and not be bullied - this draft haul does not offer enough nastiness and grunt for my liking. It would've been good to see a couple of draftees with a ruthless edge - rather than see in the weakness column 'Competitiveness' and 'defensive pressure' - these are things that are hard to learn and competitiveness in particular is naturally instinctive and should be non-negotiable for the RFC IMO

I think Tom Brown will have that in spades, but like say Tom Stewart or Nick Vlastuin they hide it well.

More I read about Sam Banks the more I love him for the exact reasons you think are missing.

The bloke played a full season - including senior footy - with a busted wrist to the point he could only tackle one handed.

He’s tough and hard and I actually think will ultimately be an in-and-under no compromising midfielder within a few years.
 

RobsJourney

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AFL rule changes force Tigers to chase kicks
Michael Gleeson

By Michael Gleeson


Richmond have mined the national draft with five picks inside 30, not only to avoid the free fall that follows an era of success, but out of necessity after AFL rule changes.
Recent changes to the rules have forced the Tigers to chase elite kicks in the draft. Those rule changes have partly taken Richmond’s high-pressure forward line crush game away from them, and helped favour the transition game rebounding from half-back. That has forced the Tigers to go to the draft with a higher priority on the kicking skills of their recruits.
Josh Gibcus high-fives Judson Clarke at the AFL Draft Victoria training day at Trevor Barker Oval recently.

Josh Gibcus high-fives Judson Clarke at the AFL Draft Victoria training day at Trevor Barker Oval recently.CREDIT:AFL PHOTOS
Having taken an intercept marking defender in Josh Gibcus with their first pick in the first round, the Tigers attacked runners who could kick with their next four picks.
They got Tom Brown at 17 on Wednesday night, and then with three picks from 28 to 30 on Thursday night they took Tyler Sonsie, an inside midfielder in the Darcy Parish mould, Sam Banks from Tasmania, and quick goal-kicking small forward and midfielder Judson Clarke with their last pick.

Judson Clarke.

Judson Clarke.CREDIT:AFL PHOTOS
“We have got some parts of our list that we needed bolstering in terms of depth,” Richmond recruiting manager Matthew Clarke said.
“We have always had a bit of a focus on kicking, but we’ve played such a high-pressure style of footy that that hasn’t been as paramount [in recent years]. But with a slight change in the AFL rules maybe there’s a bit more of a focus on that [kicking], and these boys that we have brought in, particularly Brown, Banks and Clark – Sonsie is a good kick but he is more of a midfielder, a running type – that’s what we targeted with those three.
“I think it’s [the list has] had a bit of a tweak.
“I think there’s some data suggesting there’s a bit more attacking from the back half, rather than from the front half turnover. You’d like to play a front half turnover game, but if there is ball movement from the back half that is where you have got to have ball users to do that.”

Clarke said the Tigers had looked at the experiences of Sydney, Hawthorn and Geelong in how they dealt with their lists after periods of success and wanted to attack this year’s draft to rejuvenate with youth after having secured players though free agency and trades in recent years.

“We targeted this draft as having some really good depth in the runners and obviously good key position players early. We wanted best available and it worked out really well that the best available for us was the big boy Josh [Gibcus].
“You have got to find that balance and we have taken some lessons out of some sides that have been successful, and obviously [the] Hawks and Cats and the Swans had some success there as well ... so we have looked at all those models and hopefully have taken a little bit out of everything and have that balance without going too heavy with one, with heavy in the draft, or heavy with trade and free agency.
“Hopefully we’ve been able to balance that with some free agents and trades that have come in over the last few years, and tonight we thought it was a good opportunity to add some talent.”
OK so does this mean we're gonna try to play like Geelong?

Is our forward handball game really gone and stolen by the Essenflogs?
 

Tiger_Of_Old

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Can't nyuon or miller play forward if required?

Caddy will likely be the first option if lynch/jack go down
Not to mention.
“We addressed our needs with Gibcus and we don’t just see him as a back, we believe he and Noah Balta can be swingmen"-Mathew Clarke
 

RockJobster0312

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When did Clarke take over as recruiting manager?
He was going to trade up for Banks at one point. Like wtf?

This got me as well, so I followed it up a little last night.

One thing that I’ve heard come to me this morning from those in the industry is that the common rankings portrayed in the media are generally accurate to a point. The top guys pick themselves, but after that, often the public facing ‘experts’ like Twomey and others rely way to heavy on comments from either one or two clubs (who are more candid when speaking to them) or one recruiting manager, and it skews their rankings.

Take Brisbane taking Kai Lohman at 20. It was thought to be a large reach. Yet, multiple teams have since said they’d have taken him between 15 and 20 if they had the pick.

I think the Hawks were the team that was expected to take Banks with one of their early picks in the 20s. There may have been a few other teams that were looking to trade in. I think the belief was that teams who were keen on Brown (Sydney, Melbourne and Geelong) would turn to Banks as that sort of player and trade in.

I thought it was a crazy statement to, but turns out it wasnt that far-fetched.
 

Lsta062

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So your summary is that you are unhappy because Goater, while having no idea if he will be better than RCD, should have been picked at 17 because he would compete for that one spot in the 22. Or Knevitt. Both guys with questionable kicking. Just because they could play a position that is a deficiency doesn’t mean that we pick up any player that has the potential to play mid. And they have to be good enough to make a difference in their position.

My view is that we need quality mids that will be best 22 eventually and be good enough to compete against opposition in their position on field. It seems like the club have faith in Brown to do this off half back.

I’d have loved Ward, Hobbs, Daicos, Callaghan, but they weren’t available to us. Guys who have the ability to make a difference in our best 22 seemed the priority for our picks, rather than speculative depth.
I wanted to see us pick players with potential in an area that I thought we lacked in. That is what I was unhappy about because we didn’t do enough of that with our draft haul. I am aware that they both have questionable kicking but I believe they have the potential to address our contested needs and our need for height in the midfield. Whether or not they compete with an existing player wasn’t my concern.

Having said that, there is no point in arguing about this anymore given that I am starting to come around to the club’s decision after reading some articles on what their mindset was heading into the draft. They are trying to address our overall bad kicking skills with our draft haul by the looks of it and are probably just giving our existing developing mids and KPPs further opportunities next year. I am all for that so I’ll just back their decision and see what happens from there
 

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