Live Event 2021 AFL Draft live discussion

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don't disagree there and reckon i can safely say i have been a loud & proud believer in RCD, as well as Naish - for those exact same reasons. It's been a sh*t of a time to develop for many kids. But, for all the crap Cerra was copping here as being overrated - he is clearly a class above any of our midfielders from that bunch i mentioned earlier, reality is those boys are all a 50/50 chance at best to come on and take off. With Dusty, Cotch - we knew very early we had a player. Cerra for example is already showing clear glimpses of being a VG player & has been able to play big blocks of games at that level. you know early what they are & neither of these kids have really flaunted that vibe. Comparing them to Cerra and its hard to say they are in the same prospect pool.

This is why i was extremely pro handing the keys over to these kids over the last 8 weeks and just seeing where it all landed. we needed them to be developed and i think the shitshow which was the 2nd half of 2021 was a great platform for RCD & Dow

Ross - i really dont see any reason to be planning anything on him, if he turns out at this point we are just very lucky .Ordinary skills.

The irony is he was a great grunt mid prospect & we turned him into a HBF that didnt work out - and now we have drafted a bunch of HBFs that a lot of people here believe we might turn into great midfielders.
It’s easy after the event to look at Dusty who in the early days showed glimpses but no where near what he’s turned into and Cotch who showed class but faded in and out. These guys developed slowly and didn’t set the world alight early, but developed with Edward’s, Lambert and Prestia who also wasn’t a gun early. I think your being a bit harsh on the young breed, particularly trying to force their way into a top lineup and facing selection uncertainty each week. I really think as more regular opportunity presents, you’ll see improved and consistent performances.
Regarding KP players, unless you have access to early draft picks each year, there’s little point in taking them. They usually take way too long to develop and obtain a higher opinion of themselves the longer they go without games (CJ). Free agents and trade is where it’s at for these guys unless you get a gun that develops quicker than most.
 
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Too late to have someone playing ff (or chf) when Jack retires.

Chucking an 18 year old draftee at ff in the ones has fairly predictable results I would have thought.

Yes, but I don’t see us contending from 2023-25… do you? So if Jack and Lynch can produce 85+ goals as they did in 2021, it’ll give us every chance to contend if the rest of the team steps up. Then who cares if we need to build up the KPF posts from 23-25..?? We are not contending for flags anyway so a great time to spend developing some draftees for 2026 and beyond…. Or to work on a trade or free agent. And who knows, Gibcus might do what Naughton has done and Samson Ryan might be an option also . I’m happy to bide our time on a KPF and not waste draft picks on speculative ones …. simply too many bomb out (Vickery, Elton, McBean).


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don't disagree there and reckon i can safely say i have been a loud & proud believer in RCD, as well as Naish - for those exact same reasons. It's been a sh*t of a time to develop for many kids. But, for all the crap Cerra was copping here as being overrated - he is clearly a class above any of our midfielders from that bunch i mentioned earlier, reality is those boys are all a 50/50 chance at best to come on and take off. With Dusty, Cotch - we knew very early we had a player. Cerra for example is already showing clear glimpses of being a VG player & has been able to play big blocks of games at that level. you know early what they are & neither of these kids have really flaunted that vibe. Comparing them to Cerra and its hard to say they are in the same prospect pool.

This is why i was extremely pro handing the keys over to these kids over the last 8 weeks and just seeing where it all landed. we needed them to be developed and i think the shitshow which was the 2nd half of 2021 was a great platform for RCD & Dow

Ross - i really dont see any reason to be planning anything on him, if he turns out at this point we are just very lucky .Ordinary skills.

The irony is he was a great grunt mid prospect & we turned him into a HBF that didnt work out - and now we have drafted a bunch of HBFs that a lot of people here believe we might turn into great midfielders.
You can't compare them to Cerra. That is unfair. Firstly Cerra was from the 2017 Draft. He was pick 5. RCD and Ross are from the 2018 draft. One was pick 20 and the other was pick 43. Add to that Freo has been in development mode and so have been playing Cerra in the seniors as soon as they could. He hardly missed a game during the COVID ravaged seasons because he played in the seniors. Freo wasn't winning premierships and thus didn't feel that it "owed" anything to anyone in the team. We have had premiership players that have hardly played poorly for long periods and thus could not be dropped for "player development". You expect high draft picks like Cerra to play earlier as they have obviously developed their game earlier allowing them to show how good they are to recruiters and hence are picked up earlier. Guys like RCD slid in the draft because their game wasn't as developed and thus needed more continuity to mature but COVID ruined that. This is why we are where we are. I still hold out hope for RCD and Ross.
 
You can't compare them to Cerra. That is unfair. Firstly Cerra was from the 2017 Draft. He was pick 5. RCD and Ross are from the 2018 draft. One was pick 20 and the other was pick 43. Add to that Freo has been in development mode and so have been playing Cerra in the seniors as soon as they could. He hardly missed a game during the COVID ravaged seasons because he played in the seniors. Freo wasn't winning premierships and thus didn't feel that it "owed" anything to anyone in the team. We have had premiership players that have hardly played poorly for long periods and thus could not be dropped for "player development". You expect high draft picks like Cerra to play earlier as they have obviously developed their game earlier allowing them to show how good they are to recruiters and hence are picked up earlier. Guys like RCD slid in the draft because their game wasn't as developed and thus needed more continuity to mature but COVID ruined that. This is why we are where we are. I still hold out hope for RCD and Ross.

I have a lot of hope for these young guys.

RCD just needs repeat efforts, fitness in other words. And he'll be OK. Get his timing in hitting contests and outside runs better and he can be quite good in the AFL. Lot of work to do, but it's a natural progression.

Ross has shown genuine quality at times. But too variable, and possibly played out of position. He's had enough games to know what he has to do. If he plays at his best he's a best 22 footballer.

Sometimes it's just having enough AFL quality bodies that matters. And I reckon our midfield has enough bodies of the right potential quality. Just got to take that next step.
 
Most of those NBA players were unvaccinated.......


That isn't really true. 95% of the NBA players are vaccinated. Player that came to mind for me was Jaylen Brown who was one of the first players vaccinated & he contracted Covid in early Oct, post vaccine. He has physically struggled to regain his health & is still requiring a puffer to play & he is finding his recovery rate is drastically reduced.


There are a lot of NBA players who have also stated the same. Yes some got COVID before a vaccine existed & they definitely struggled ( Tatum, Westbrook etc ). As i said. 95% of the players got vaccines as soon as they came readily available. Similar stories existing in most professional sports. Its not really that surprising that a virus which has crippled a planet over the past 2 years is causing grief for elite athletes trying to perform at the highest level. Joel Embiid only just got back from covid recovery, post vaccine, & felt like he was going to die. It's a very bad virus that attacks your lungs, its not unlikely or even controversial to suggest it could impact athletes endurance, even post vaccine.
 
You can't compare them to Cerra. That is unfair. Firstly Cerra was from the 2017 Draft. He was pick 5. RCD and Ross are from the 2018 draft. One was pick 20 and the other was pick 43. Add to that Freo has been in development mode and so have been playing Cerra in the seniors as soon as they could. He hardly missed a game during the COVID ravaged seasons because he played in the seniors. Freo wasn't winning premierships and thus didn't feel that it "owed" anything to anyone in the team. We have had premiership players that have hardly played poorly for long periods and thus could not be dropped for "player development". You expect high draft picks like Cerra to play earlier as they have obviously developed their game earlier allowing them to show how good they are to recruiters and hence are picked up earlier. Guys like RCD slid in the draft because their game wasn't as developed and thus needed more continuity to mature but COVID ruined that. This is why we are where we are. I still hold out hope for RCD and Ross.
When it comes to game day where they finished in the draft is not overly relevant. Its how good they play footy. The point i am making is that you generally see if a player is elite potential within the first few years. Yes, they can grow to me "very good" players, but elite midfielders -no, not really. Even Cerra, most here thought he was not even that good - but reality is he has shown a *ton more than RCD, Dow, Ross etc, even taking into account the years difference. That is the only point I am making - i certainly think they can contribute to a rotation, but they don';t look to me to be the "midfield leaders" we desperately need coming up.

My point is you generally know within the first couple of years if a player has elite talent. Like Cripps for example, he was pick 13 - but instantly had elite potential shining through. Jordan Lewis, pick 7 - instantly you knew they had a winner there. Sam Mitchell, pick 36 - by season 2 - the same thing.
Even Bolton, pick in the late 20's but his talent was there straight away his issue was application, fitness, attitude etc, but you could see the talent & we knew we had a steal. Elite talent is something you see very early on. Even thinking waaaayyyy back - a bloke like Mark Coughlan, within his first 2 years you could see he had the natural talent to be elite, if injuries didn't destory his career (still the saddest RFC "could have been" story).

You then compare that to Paddy Dow, a much earlier pick - but he has never shown it really. Or Farren Ray - some potential,but became a handy player that had a few really good season. The reality is RCD is probably is in a class inbetween Coughlan & Ray. - can't see he or Dow getting to that Cripps level.

Reality is, our midfield was destroyed this year and the coaches still didn't trust RCD, Dow, Ross to take the ropes. In the stints they did, they were inconsistently "ok" to "Good", but not great. Like ive said a lot, i would have played them all more & just lived with the results & changed the ethos of our season from "3peat" to "Rest & development". The club went the other way and kept fighting for a finals spot and i think. that puts us in a slightly worse place for 2022
 
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When it comes to game day where they finished in the draft is not overly relevant. Its how good they play footy. The point i am making is that you generally see if a player is elite potential within the first few years. Yes, they can grow to me "very good" players, but elite midfielders -no, not really. Even Cerra, most here thought he was not even that good - but reality is he has shown a fu**ton more than RCD, Dow, Ross etc, even taking into account the years difference. That is the only point I am making - i certainly think they can contribute to a rotation, but they don';t look to me to be the "midfield leaders" we desperately need coming up.

My point is you generally know within the first couple of years if a player has elite talent. Like Cripps for example, he was pick 13 - but instantly had elite potential shining through. Jordan Lewis, pick 7 - instantly you knew they had a winner there. Sam Mitchell, pick 36 - by season 2 - the same thing.
Even Bolton, pick in the late 20's but his talent was there straight away his issue was application, fitness, attitude etc, but you could see the talent & we knew we had a steal. Elite talent is something you see very early on. Even thinking waaaayyyy back - a bloke like Mark Coughlan, within his first 2 years you could see he had the natural talent to be elite, if injuries didn't destory his career (still the saddest RFC "could have been" story).

You then compare that to Paddy Dow, a much earlier pick - but he has never shown it really. Or Farren Ray - some potential,but became a handy player that had a few really good season. The reality is RCD is probably is in a class inbetween Coughlan & Ray. - can't see he or Dow getting to that Cripps level.

Reality is, our midfield was destroyed this year and the coaches still didn't trust RCD, Dow, Ross to take the ropes. In the stints they did, they were inconsistently "ok" to "Good", but not great. Like ive said a lot, i would have played them all more & just lived with the results & changed the ethos of our season from "3peat" to "Rest & development". The club went the other way and kept fighting for a finals spot and i think. that puts us in a slightly worse place for 2022
I think we might regret not taking Hobbs.
Gibcus is a solid pick but he won't be the next Fyfe or Dusty.
**** it!
Let’s just forfeit the season…
 
When it comes to game day where they finished in the draft is not overly relevant. Its how good they play footy. The point i am making is that you generally see if a player is elite potential within the first few years. Yes, they can grow to me "very good" players, but elite midfielders -no, not really. Even Cerra, most here thought he was not even that good - but reality is he has shown a fu**ton more than RCD, Dow, Ross etc, even taking into account the years difference. That is the only point I am making - i certainly think they can contribute to a rotation, but they don';t look to me to be the "midfield leaders" we desperately need coming up.

My point is you generally know within the first couple of years if a player has elite talent. Like Cripps for example, he was pick 13 - but instantly had elite potential shining through. Jordan Lewis, pick 7 - instantly you knew they had a winner there. Sam Mitchell, pick 36 - by season 2 - the same thing.
Even Bolton, pick in the late 20's but his talent was there straight away his issue was application, fitness, attitude etc, but you could see the talent & we knew we had a steal. Elite talent is something you see very early on. Even thinking waaaayyyy back - a bloke like Mark Coughlan, within his first 2 years you could see he had the natural talent to be elite, if injuries didn't destory his career (still the saddest RFC "could have been" story).

You then compare that to Paddy Dow, a much earlier pick - but he has never shown it really. Or Farren Ray - some potential,but became a handy player that had a few really good season. The reality is RCD is probably is in a class inbetween Coughlan & Ray. - can't see he or Dow getting to that Cripps level.

Reality is, our midfield was destroyed this year and the coaches still didn't trust RCD, Dow, Ross to take the ropes. In the stints they did, they were inconsistently "ok" to "Good", but not great. Like ive said a lot, i would have played them all more & just lived with the results & changed the ethos of our season from "3peat" to "Rest & development". The club went the other way and kept fighting for a finals spot and i think. that puts us in a slightly worse place for 2022
Plenty of kids have come on a bit later than others. Steele won a B& F after changing clubs. Some mids take longer for one reason or another. Shite years the last two for development due to no and then a handful of VFL games. Also our cubs had to break into a Premiership sides.

No way you can read what will happen this year based on last. Dow has tonne of talent, hasn't used it yet but sometimes he does things that make you go wow this kid can play. Ross has played some great games. I reckon we have a good lot of talent that has not found its way into the team and certainly have not felt like they belonged when in there. Its a slow burn sometimes, but I reckon this year they will back the youth a lot more.
 

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When it comes to game day where they finished in the draft is not overly relevant. Its how good they play footy. The point i am making is that you generally see if a player is elite potential within the first few years. Yes, they can grow to me "very good" players, but elite midfielders -no, not really. Even Cerra, most here thought he was not even that good - but reality is he has shown a fu**ton more than RCD, Dow, Ross etc, even taking into account the years difference. That is the only point I am making - i certainly think they can contribute to a rotation, but they don';t look to me to be the "midfield leaders" we desperately need coming up.

My point is you generally know within the first couple of years if a player has elite talent. Like Cripps for example, he was pick 13 - but instantly had elite potential shining through. Jordan Lewis, pick 7 - instantly you knew they had a winner there. Sam Mitchell, pick 36 - by season 2 - the same thing.
Even Bolton, pick in the late 20's but his talent was there straight away his issue was application, fitness, attitude etc, but you could see the talent & we knew we had a steal. Elite talent is something you see very early on. Even thinking waaaayyyy back - a bloke like Mark Coughlan, within his first 2 years you could see he had the natural talent to be elite, if injuries didn't destory his career (still the saddest RFC "could have been" story).

You then compare that to Paddy Dow, a much earlier pick - but he has never shown it really. Or Farren Ray - some potential,but became a handy player that had a few really good season. The reality is RCD is probably is in a class inbetween Coughlan & Ray. - can't see he or Dow getting to that Cripps level.

Reality is, our midfield was destroyed this year and the coaches still didn't trust RCD, Dow, Ross to take the ropes. In the stints they did, they were inconsistently "ok" to "Good", but not great. Like ive said a lot, i would have played them all more & just lived with the results & changed the ethos of our season from "3peat" to "Rest & development". The club went the other way and kept fighting for a finals spot and i think. that puts us in a slightly worse place for 2022

I think the ‘Uber elite’ mids show it early, but often that next rung down take a little time. Let’s not forget RCD only debuted this year and played 9 games averaging 15 touches. Did you know he was 33rd in the entire AFL for average centre clearances? And Dow is 2-years in and has played 7 games … I think he has shown some excellent signs. Him not playing when undermanned was probably more not to expose him too early than anything else given he’d played little footy.

If you think of A-grade mids in the last decade or so who’ve not shown elite traits or anything better than Dow or RCD in their first few seasons… here’s a few:

Jobe Watson
Jack Steele
Matthew Boyd
Josh Kennedy (Syd)
Darcy Parish
Luke Shuey
Jarryd Lyons
Elliott Yeo
Taylor Adams
Josh Dunkley
Touk Miller

Even Ollie Wines was playing SANFL 18-months ago.

So it’s way too early to consign RCD, Dow or Ross to busts or B-grade at best players. They might end up like that, but they deserve a lot more opportunity to prove themselves.




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I think in this draft we went for solid players who we know what we're gonna get.
In previous drafts we took more chances with eg Bolton, Balta and even Stack and Pickett.
So this years lot have been picked as complementary players to our other young talent if that makes sense.
We didn't use a top 30 pick on Stack or Pickett - that's a false equivalency.

Balta and Bolton were both selected in their draft range.
 
Then your comment bout Gibcus not becoming the next Dusty or Fyfe is extremely strange as they are not the same type of player and by yur post its silly to make an assessment of the best KPD in the draft
He was highly ranked because of the dearth of KPD in the draft.
Besides that, KPD's don't usually go in the first round .But hopefully he's as good as Jordan Ridley.
 
He was highly ranked because of the dearth of KPD in the draft.
Besides that, KPD's don't usually go in the first round .But hopefully he's as good as Jordan Ridley.

They do if they are quality just to name a few
Jacob Wietering #1
Zach Reid #10
Denver Granger Barras #6
Heath Chapman #14
Fischer Macasey #6
Will Day #13
Miles Bergman #14
 
He was highly ranked because of the dearth of KPD in the draft.
Besides that, KPD's don't usually go in the first round .But hopefully he's as good as Jordan Ridley.

No he was highly ranked because of his eye watering athletic traits and elite intercepting. He is a huge high ceiling pick, much higher then Hobbs.
 

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