Game Day 2021 AFL Draft

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rustycrate

Club Legend
Oct 18, 2018
1,540
3,135
AFL Club
Sydney
With our drafting of Lachlan Rankin, he becomes just the second current Swans player drafted through the APS pathway. We also move from outright last into equal-last in the competition in terms of number of players originating from the APS pathway.

15 - Western Bulldogs
11 - Carlton, Melbourne
10 - Collingwood
9 - Hawthorn
8
7 - Greater Western Sydney
6 - Essendon, Gold Coast, North Melbourne, Port Adelaide
5 -
4 - Adelaide Crows, Fremantle, Geelong, Richmond
3 - West Coast
2 - Brisbane Lions, Sydney Swans

(It's OK Lachie, I don't hate you just because you're rich!)
Are we blue collar?
 

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cherub

THE BEAST
Aug 12, 2009
666
926
Shenton Park
AFL Club
Sydney
With our drafting of Lachlan Rankin, he becomes just the second current Swans player drafted through the APS pathway. We also move from outright last into equal-last in the competition in terms of number of players originating from the APS pathway.

15 - Western Bulldogs
11 - Carlton, Melbourne
10 - Collingwood
9 - Hawthorn
8
7 - Greater Western Sydney
6 - Essendon, Gold Coast, North Melbourne, Port Adelaide
5 -
4 - Adelaide Crows, Fremantle, Geelong, Richmond
3 - West Coast
2 - Brisbane Lions, Sydney Swans

(It's OK Lachie, I don't hate you just because you're rich!)
Isn't that just a reflection of our avoidance of Vic. Metro boys? The WA boys are all private school.Dylan Stephens went to St Peters. I thought Matthew Roberts said he went to boarding school. Much higher recognition of the private school boys. Much more likely to get into State underage teams.
 

caesar88

Brownlow Medallist
Apr 26, 2016
24,786
36,992
AFL Club
Sydney
Isn't that just a reflection of our avoidance of Vic. Metro boys? The WA boys are all private school.Dylan Stephens went to St Peters. I thought Matthew Roberts said he went to boarding school. Much higher recognition of the private school boys. Much more likely to get into State underage teams.

I can't speak for other states and other private school systems and won't pretend to be informed enough to know how they work. I do however have a pretty in-depth understanding about the state of the APS pathway and how incredibly corrupted by wealth and connections it is. A system corrupted by privilege will therefore not be a system that reflects the true state of talent that is out there.

So perhaps it is less about us steering clear of Vic Metro boys (we actually have way more Vic Metro boys than we do just APS boys) and more about just not taking the APS pathway any more seriously than any other.

If there's a kid from the APS pathway that we rate and want then we will take them, as we did with Rowbottom and as we've done now with Rankin. But it seems we don't allow the shroud of privilege that pumps the tyres of many of these boys to shape how we perceive them as individual talents.
 

robbieando

Moderator
Oct 9, 2001
16,986
11,687
Spitting Bars
AFL Club
Sydney
With our drafting of Lachlan Rankin, he becomes just the second current Swans player drafted through the APS pathway. We also move from outright last into equal-last in the competition in terms of number of players originating from the APS pathway.

15 - Western Bulldogs
11 - Carlton, Melbourne
10 - Collingwood
9 - Hawthorn
8
7 - Greater Western Sydney
6 - Essendon, Gold Coast, North Melbourne, Port Adelaide
5 -
4 - Adelaide Crows, Fremantle, Geelong, Richmond
3 - West Coast
2 - Brisbane Lions, Sydney Swans

(It's OK Lachie, I don't hate you just because you're rich!)

Clarke, Rowbottom, Kennedy, Sinclair, and now Rankin all from Associated Public Schools, McInerney, Amartey, and Florent are from Associated Grammar Schools and McCartin, Ronke and McLean from the Associated Catholic Colleges.

So a fair chunk of the team out of Victoria is from the private school system.
 

caesar88

Brownlow Medallist
Apr 26, 2016
24,786
36,992
AFL Club
Sydney
Clarke, Rowbottom, Kennedy, Sinclair, and now Rankin all from Associated Public Schools, McInerney, Amartey, and Florent are from Associated Grammar Schools and McCartin, Ronke and McLean from the Associated Catholic Colleges.

So a fair chunk of the team out of Victoria is from the private school system.

I believe I was referring to players we drafted (which rules out Kennedy, Sinclair, Clarke etc.) and also to the APS pathway.
 

robbieando

Moderator
Oct 9, 2001
16,986
11,687
Spitting Bars
AFL Club
Sydney
I believe I was referring to players we drafted (which rules out Kennedy, Sinclair, Clarke etc.) and also to the APS pathway.

We have still gone out of our way to trade for APS players and by trading for them doesn’t wipe out where they were educated once they changed teams.

In anycase I presented more context to the numbers you provided which should matter considering our team is over two thirds private school educated.

I would be more amazed if we drafted a player from a public high school at this point.

But I note you raise the drafting of a Victorian through the APS system the very year we draft two players through the PSA (the WA equivalent of the APS) and not say a thing about that.
 

caesar88

Brownlow Medallist
Apr 26, 2016
24,786
36,992
AFL Club
Sydney
We have still gone out of our way to trade for APS players and by trading for them doesn’t wipe out where they were educated once they changed teams.

In anycase I presented more context to the numbers you provided which should matter considering our team is over two thirds private school educated.

I would be more amazed if we drafted a player from a public high school at this point.

But I note you raise the drafting of a Victorian through the APS system the very year we draft two players through the PSA (the WA equivalent of the APS) and not say a thing about that.

I think you are confusing my gripe with the APS system specifically with me having a gripe with private schools as a whole.

I have always been specific that I'm referring strictly to the APS system as that is the one I know about and have issues with. I am sure every system has it's faults and maybe someone better informed about the WA or SA equivalents would care to elaborate. Or maybe they don't have have the same issues and that is why it's a pool we've been relatively comfortable dipping our toes in in recent years.
 

anotherletdown

Club Legend
Oct 14, 2016
1,706
1,901
AFL Club
Sydney
With our drafting of Lachlan Rankin, he becomes just the second current Swans player drafted through the APS pathway. We also move from outright last into equal-last in the competition in terms of number of players originating from the APS pathway.

15 - Western Bulldogs
11 - Carlton, Melbourne
10 - Collingwood
9 - Hawthorn
8
7 - Greater Western Sydney
6 - Essendon, Gold Coast, North Melbourne, Port Adelaide
5 -
4 - Adelaide Crows, Fremantle, Geelong, Richmond
3 - West Coast
2 - Brisbane Lions, Sydney Swans

(It's OK Lachie, I don't hate you just because you're rich!)

Some pretty heavy interstate bias on display right there....
 

Kirkswan

Premiership Player
May 10, 2014
4,939
9,618
Sydney
AFL Club
Sydney
With our drafting of Lachlan Rankin, he becomes just the second current Swans player drafted through the APS pathway. We also move from outright last into equal-last in the competition in terms of number of players originating from the APS pathway.

15 - Western Bulldogs
11 - Carlton, Melbourne
10 - Collingwood
9 - Hawthorn
8
7 - Greater Western Sydney
6 - Essendon, Gold Coast, North Melbourne, Port Adelaide
5 -
4 - Adelaide Crows, Fremantle, Geelong, Richmond
3 - West Coast
2 - Brisbane Lions, Sydney Swans

(It's OK Lachie, I don't hate you just because you're rich!)
What is APS?

EDIT: Please forget I asked...
 

cherub

THE BEAST
Aug 12, 2009
666
926
Shenton Park
AFL Club
Sydney
I can't speak for other states and other private school systems and won't pretend to be informed enough to know how they work. I do however have a pretty in-depth understanding about the state of the APS pathway and how incredibly corrupted by wealth and connections it is. A system corrupted by privilege will therefore not be a system that reflects the true state of talent that is out there.

So perhaps it is less about us steering clear of Vic Metro boys (we actually have way more Vic Metro boys than we do just APS boys) and more about just not taking the APS pathway any more seriously than any other.

If there's a kid from the APS pathway that we rate and want then we will take them, as we did with Rowbottom and as we've done now with Rankin. But it seems we don't allow the shroud of privilege that pumps the tyres of many of these boys to shape how we perceive them as individual talents.
I can't like this enough! But how many of the current Swans aren't private school boys?
 

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caesar88

Brownlow Medallist
Apr 26, 2016
24,786
36,992
AFL Club
Sydney
I can't like this enough! But how many of the current Swans aren't private school boys?

I suspect it would be the minority, as robbieando suggested, but again, my gripe isn't with the private school system as a whole. It's with the APS system specifically, simply because I know that it's crooked to the root.
 

Kiama Chris

Club Legend
May 10, 2016
2,698
5,921
Kiama
AFL Club
Sydney
I still believe that drafting out of high school is a stupid idea.
Not disagreeing with you but I can see why three systems are very different.
Overseas soccer picks up kids from a very early age. There are many competitions and pathways plus the game is less physical.
NFL has the college system. Hundreds of colleges feeding one tenth or less the number of NFL teams. Plus the money is huge. Most importantly, the game is brutal and bodies need to be more mature than 18 yrs old.
AFL and NRL are brutal too but the money is a lot less and the pyramid a lot narrower. What do the kids do before they are drafted? Many will drift away from sport altogether.
Kid's bodies would be stronger at 20 or 21 but there are other factors at play.
 

SGBeach

Club Legend
Jul 19, 2019
2,224
5,104
AFL Club
Sydney
I still believe that drafting out of high school is a stupid idea.
Covid has changed the draft age to 19.. Would be interesting to know out the 60 odd players drafted, how many were 18yo (school leavers), 19yo (one year out of school) and older. I suspect the large majority were school leavers.

Ive heard a few comments about the Academy and how well they prepare 'boys' for senior 'mens' footy.
A good club will develop the draftees at a rate which suits their physical maturity. Maybe the way it works best is that a draftee can be developed within the club, preparing them mentally, emotionally and physically for senior footy. I reckon the Swans are in this situation now, with so many young crew competing for a spot in the team. No need to play them, but good to give them a taste

Born: (just out of interest)
1999 - McCartin, Bell, Wicks, Amartey, McLean
2000 - Blakey, Rowbum, McInerney, McAndrew
2001 - Gould, Stephens, Warner
2002 - Gulden, Campbell, McDonald, Sheather
2003 - Sheldrick, Roberts, Warner, Rankin
 

ScottBo

Team Captain
Aug 17, 2009
491
2,091
Sydney
AFL Club
Sydney
I think you are confusing my gripe with the APS system specifically with me having a gripe with private schools as a whole.

I have always been specific that I'm referring strictly to the APS system as that is the one I know about and have issues with. I am sure every system has it's faults and maybe someone better informed about the WA or SA equivalents would care to elaborate. Or maybe they don't have have the same issues and that is why it's a pool we've been relatively comfortable dipping our toes in in recent years.
I find it interesting we have drafted four players (Stephens, Gould, Curruthers, Roberts) in the past few years from the one school without, as far as I am aware, a whimper about it from the Swans media. The same school our CEO attended. Coincidence? Probably. But what are the odds?
 

sataris

Do you linux?
Feb 15, 2015
7,823
15,369
Singapore
AFL Club
Sydney
Not disagreeing with you but I can see why three systems are very different.
Overseas soccer picks up kids from a very early age. There are many competitions and pathways plus the game is less physical.
NFL has the college system. Hundreds of colleges feeding one tenth or less the number of NFL teams. Plus the money is huge. Most importantly, the game is brutal and bodies need to be more mature than 18 yrs old.
AFL and NRL are brutal too but the money is a lot less and the pyramid a lot narrower. What do the kids do before they are drafted? Many will drift away from sport altogether.
Kid's bodies would be stronger at 20 or 21 but there are other factors at play.


The physical factors are not why I think it's stupid (even though it is).

It's the mental aspect and maturity of a 21 year old vs an 18 year old, not much but it's definitely more.

Having said all that we really don't have a pathway for 18+ year olds so the whole thing is moot.
 

rustycrate

Club Legend
Oct 18, 2018
1,540
3,135
AFL Club
Sydney
The
L Rankin and L Franklin
They
The physical factors are not why I think it's stupid (even though it is).

It's the mental aspect and maturity of a 21 year old vs an 18 year old, not much but it's definitely more.

Having said all that we really don't have a pathway for 18+ year olds so the whole thing is moot.
Gulden says hi. Depends a lot on their upbringing, role models and training.
 

Ticky009

Moderator
Jun 2, 2014
11,786
26,971
AFL Club
Sydney
Other Teams
The Rebel Alliance
There's a 2017 article on the Swans website in which Kinnear talks about recruiting but this still stands true it seems.

Is there a particular Swans way, or Swans type of player?

Ever since I joined the Swans, from the days when Paul Roos was coach, the first question the coaches always ask is, ‘How competitive is he?’

That was always the mantra from Paul, and things haven’t changed much with John Longmire. They always want us to give them a competitor first and foremost....

If you boiled it down, they are the key attributes we’re looking for – intent and impact. And then we start looking at the effectiveness of their ball use, and decision-making.

Then we try to get an idea of the background of the player, and what access they’ve had to elite coaching, so therefore what room for improvement is there?

Has that player been in a system where that opportunity for improvement has been exhausted, and they haven’t got the capacity to continue to improve? Our system provides us with an environment where we can assess that.
 

anotherletdown

Club Legend
Oct 14, 2016
1,706
1,901
AFL Club
Sydney
Covid has changed the draft age to 19.. Would be interesting to know out the 60 odd players drafted, how many were 18yo (school leavers), 19yo (one year out of school) and older. I suspect the large majority were school leavers.

Ive heard a few comments about the Academy and how well they prepare 'boys' for senior 'mens' footy.
A good club will develop the draftees at a rate which suits their physical maturity. Maybe the way it works best is that a draftee can be developed within the club, preparing them mentally, emotionally and physically for senior footy. I reckon the Swans are in this situation now, with so many young crew competing for a spot in the team. No need to play them, but good to give them a taste

Born: (just out of interest)
1999 - McCartin, Bell, Wicks, Amartey, McLean
2000 - Blakey, Rowbum, McInerney, McAndrew
2001 - Gould, Stephens, Warner
2002 - Gulden, Campbell, McDonald, Sheather
2003 - Sheldrick, Roberts, Warner, Rankin

Outside of one or two, that looks like a premiership nucleus to me
 

BloodySwan

Norm Smith Medallist
Oct 2, 2016
6,824
13,147
AFL Club
Sydney
Not disagreeing with you but I can see why three systems are very different.
Overseas soccer picks up kids from a very early age. There are many competitions and pathways plus the game is less physical.
NFL has the college system. Hundreds of colleges feeding one tenth or less the number of NFL teams. Plus the money is huge. Most importantly, the game is brutal and bodies need to be more mature than 18 yrs old.
AFL and NRL are brutal too but the money is a lot less and the pyramid a lot narrower. What do the kids do before they are drafted? Many will drift away from sport altogether.
Kid's bodies would be stronger at 20 or 21 but there are other factors at play.
Increase the draft age and the state level comps will become the pathway. Creates a true second tier
 

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