100% this. Brand in that equation too.
2021 - Best 22
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Bear31
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I'm going to miss Rampe when he eventually retires. The number of times he saves the day peeling off his man and intercepting, being last man in defence and saving that goal, marking big guys soo much bigger. When he tripped over that chain and injured himself we lost the first 6 games without him. He came backand we won. He does it with a smile too. He may not be able to leap tall buildings, but he can climb a goalpost.
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What I posted in the MB thread:
Can see the argument for Fox instead of Melican, but I think the structure is better with two proper KPD's. I still think Dawson's kicking abilities is best utilised down back, but I can also see him as a winger. Trouble is I don't know who to omit from the 22 to fit another defender in there.
Florent admittedly doesn't seem well suited to being a winger....could swap him and Stephens I guess. Or even have Blakey on the wing and a mid as the resting forward.
Can see the argument for Fox instead of Melican, but I think the structure is better with two proper KPD's. I still think Dawson's kicking abilities is best utilised down back, but I can also see him as a winger. Trouble is I don't know who to omit from the 22 to fit another defender in there.
Florent admittedly doesn't seem well suited to being a winger....could swap him and Stephens I guess. Or even have Blakey on the wing and a mid as the resting forward.
It's interesting to try to work out which players are competing with each other for spots. Doesn't mean they can't both play seniors but....
Is Ling in competition with Cunningham and Lloyd? Both small but very different roles. Is Gould in competition with Melican or with Mills, O'Riordan and Fox? We have a fair number of potential wingers: Dawson, Blakey, Florent, Stephenson, McInerney, Foot. Do Wicks and Hayward now compete as defensive forwards?
Must cross both players' and coaches' minds.
I wonder if conditions are developing which encourage Will Hayward to make a full transition to defence next year.
At full fitness, we've got Heeney, Franklin, Papley, Reid, Sinclair, Blakey, Wicks to do various things up forward, along with other depth including Campbell and Gulden who appear senior-ready across HF. Hayward was at his best after playing a few weeks in defence where he really righted himself and showed he can develop well there. Then he went back to the forward line to be a focal point - he was actually playing a Heeney kind of role as a pseudo-CHF and did it pretty well. Added another string to his bow as a more defensive forward later in the year.
In defence, the only guy we haven't signed yet is Robbie Fox, who I believe should be re-signed without doubt, but if he isn't, there's a third tall/medium defender hole in defence which could be ready for someone like Hayward to step into. Could also be ready for Will Gould so I don't think it's a certainty for Hayward to move there, but I don't think it's a certainty that Hayward will be forward either. I remain unconvinced that we'll see the best of Hayward as a player as a forward given our stocks and his inability to play consistently when he has a heap of other guys around him. Could be determined by our injury list of course, but I wouldn't count out a move to defence more permanently for him in 2021.
At full fitness, we've got Heeney, Franklin, Papley, Reid, Sinclair, Blakey, Wicks to do various things up forward, along with other depth including Campbell and Gulden who appear senior-ready across HF. Hayward was at his best after playing a few weeks in defence where he really righted himself and showed he can develop well there. Then he went back to the forward line to be a focal point - he was actually playing a Heeney kind of role as a pseudo-CHF and did it pretty well. Added another string to his bow as a more defensive forward later in the year.
In defence, the only guy we haven't signed yet is Robbie Fox, who I believe should be re-signed without doubt, but if he isn't, there's a third tall/medium defender hole in defence which could be ready for someone like Hayward to step into. Could also be ready for Will Gould so I don't think it's a certainty for Hayward to move there, but I don't think it's a certainty that Hayward will be forward either. I remain unconvinced that we'll see the best of Hayward as a player as a forward given our stocks and his inability to play consistently when he has a heap of other guys around him. Could be determined by our injury list of course, but I wouldn't count out a move to defence more permanently for him in 2021.
I think Fox could be the next Rampe. He's certainly got pace and determination. Just needs the confidence to take them on.
I don’t think Hayward was that good even when moved to defense - his highest disposals was 15 this year. He got over 12 disposals three times this season. Sure, he found a touch more ball, but was pretty poor defensively and didn’t exactly rack up possessions.
Kind of unfortunate that he has stagnated, but shouldn’t be guaranteed a best 22 spot in round 1. With Pick 3, Campbell, Henry, Buddy all hopefully back for round 1
Kind of unfortunate that he has stagnated, but shouldn’t be guaranteed a best 22 spot in round 1. With Pick 3, Campbell, Henry, Buddy all hopefully back for round 1
Autocorrect strikes again
Better than me a few days ago as I wrote something like "22 named players" and autocorrect changed it to "22 naked players". Fortunately I spotted it right away and edited it within a minute
- Oct 17, 2016
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Seniors
Lloyd Brand Rampe
Mills Fox Dawson
Florent Rowbottom Blakey
Hickey Kennedy Parker
Hayward Reid Heeney
Papley Franklin Wicks
Interchange: Cunningham Hewett Mcinerney McCartin
Emergency: Melican Clarke Stephens Sinclair
=-----------------------------------------------------------=
Reserves
O'Riordin Melican Gould
Ling O"Connor Thurlow
Stephens Gray Bell
Sinclair Clarke Warner
Foot Amartey Taylor
Ronke Mclean E. Taylor
Injured: Naismith
Lloyd Brand Rampe
Mills Fox Dawson
Florent Rowbottom Blakey
Hickey Kennedy Parker
Hayward Reid Heeney
Papley Franklin Wicks
Interchange: Cunningham Hewett Mcinerney McCartin
Emergency: Melican Clarke Stephens Sinclair
=-----------------------------------------------------------=
Reserves
O'Riordin Melican Gould
Ling O"Connor Thurlow
Stephens Gray Bell
Sinclair Clarke Warner
Foot Amartey Taylor
Ronke Mclean E. Taylor
Injured: Naismith
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caesar88
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I believe it was Wolfgang West who made the very good point that if you are having to conjure new roles for a player to try then maybe they're just not very good, particularly when they are not exactly starring in the new role either. The two games this year that seemed to get mentioned quite a lot were against Gold Coast and the derby against GWS. In the former, he had 12 possessions and kicked 2 goals, including that excellent snap from about 50 metres out where Paps leaped over his head in celebration. In the latter, he played on Nick Haynes and "shut him down." In reality, Haynes wasn't rendered ineffective by Hayward's job, he was rendered ineffective by our ball movement and delivery inside 50.
I don't think either are what I would consider compelling evidence that he could be a defender, or if he was, that he'd be any better than those we already have down there.
In fact, the main justification for Hayward being in defence is that it "gets him into the game" because he gets more possessions. That's nice. Good for Will. But it doesn't necessarily improve the back six, or the team as a whole.
He is player #22 come round 1 next year as far as I am concerned and if he doesn't show immediate signs that he is ready to be more than just an average player then he should be the first one out as his mediocrity has not been fleeting, it's been sustained.
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Curious to see peoples thoughts on the better 22 between us and bombers next year, and a crude estimate of which team is better by x points for and x points against.
Here's a potential 22 for the bombers, widely tipped now to finish well into the bottom half of the comp.
ESSENDON’S BEST 22 IN 2021
B: Matt Guelfi, Michael Hurley, Aaron Francis
HB: Mason Redman, Brandon Zerk-Thatcher, Jordan Ridley
C: Dyson Heppell, Andrew McGrath, Jye Caldwell
HF: Darcy Parish, Jake Stringer, Kyle Langford
F: Devon Smith, Peter Wright, Anthony McDonald-Tipungwuti
Foll: Sam Draper, Dylan Shiel, Zach Merrett
Inter: David Zaharakis, Patrick Ambrose, Jayden Laverde, Nick Hind
Emerg: Cale Hooker, Tom Cutler, James Stewart, Harrison Jones
I dont want to influence the guesses by sharing my thoughts just yet, but keen to hear if people think we are way stronger on certain lines, break even or are way weaker on certain lines.
Here's a potential 22 for the bombers, widely tipped now to finish well into the bottom half of the comp.
ESSENDON’S BEST 22 IN 2021
B: Matt Guelfi, Michael Hurley, Aaron Francis
HB: Mason Redman, Brandon Zerk-Thatcher, Jordan Ridley
C: Dyson Heppell, Andrew McGrath, Jye Caldwell
HF: Darcy Parish, Jake Stringer, Kyle Langford
F: Devon Smith, Peter Wright, Anthony McDonald-Tipungwuti
Foll: Sam Draper, Dylan Shiel, Zach Merrett
Inter: David Zaharakis, Patrick Ambrose, Jayden Laverde, Nick Hind
Emerg: Cale Hooker, Tom Cutler, James Stewart, Harrison Jones
I dont want to influence the guesses by sharing my thoughts just yet, but keen to hear if people think we are way stronger on certain lines, break even or are way weaker on certain lines.
Their forwards will struggle to score.against anyone, their backs will struggle to hold us IF we have Buddy playing. Break even of not. Harder to rate the midfields. McGrath is good, but Heppell on a wing after a season at half back? So maybe we are 3-5 goals better if both teams play well. I also rate our coaching team for next season to pick the opposition weaknesses and plan accordingly.
As a young team, there is always the risk of inconsistency.
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Cheers for reply
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Slight change, nothing drastic
B: Lloyd, Melican, Mills
HB:
C: Clarke, Hewett, McInerney
HF: Hayward, Reid, Heeney
F: Papley, Buddy, Sinclair
R: Hickey, Kennedy, Parker
INT: Cunningham, Blakey, Rowbottom, Florent
Stephens for Clarke, O'Riordan for Sinclair. Shuffle the deck somewhat. Reid good enough to cut Hickey out.
Rampe, Melican, Cunningham
ORiordan, McCartin, Mills
Dawson, Rowbottom, Lloyd
Heeney, Reid, Blakey
Hayward, Franklin, Papley
Hickey, Parker, Hewett
Mcinerney, Kennedy, Florent, Stephens
seconds
Ling - OConnor - Gould
Bell - Warner - Taylor
Ronke - Amartey - Wicks
McLean -
ORiordan, McCartin, Mills
Dawson, Rowbottom, Lloyd
Heeney, Reid, Blakey
Hayward, Franklin, Papley
Hickey, Parker, Hewett
Mcinerney, Kennedy, Florent, Stephens
seconds
Ling - OConnor - Gould
Bell - Warner - Taylor
Ronke - Amartey - Wicks
McLean -
To me the point of recruiting Hickey was, at least partially, to have two proper ruckmen in the side. Swapping Sinclair for Hickey doesn't do much imo for the sake of the side. I think the value comes in having a proper ruckman on the field 100% of the time - meaning Sinclair sits at FF for the majority of the game. You could use Reid as the 2nd ruck again but I think that's only shown so much value.
My thinking as it stands (and it may change depending on who we draft tonight) is that I'd be playing Sinclair and Hickey together and then Reid plays on the basis that the rest of the forward line can accommodate him as another tall alongside Bud (assuming he's fit).
My thinking as it stands (and it may change depending on who we draft tonight) is that I'd be playing Sinclair and Hickey together and then Reid plays on the basis that the rest of the forward line can accommodate him as another tall alongside Bud (assuming he's fit).
Problem with that for me is that Reid is a better tall forward than Sinclair (much more mobile and creates SOME tackle pressure) and a reasonable cut out against the oppo's second. At best Sinclair has one more season. Maybe it's time for Sinkers to play Ressies and get called up if Hickey is injured.
I definitely agree with Reid > Sinclair as a tall forward but because realistically it's a dual role (ruck/forward), Sinclair provides more. Now you could always play both of them in the same side as Franklin but then there's less airspace for Heeney to work in one on one which would be a real shame because he's better than nearly anyone else in the league close to goal one on one. I'd be more tempted to play just two tall forwards to let Heeney play as the deepest marking forward more.
Tricky to find the best combination here - and there may yet be Logan McDonald, Riley Thilthorpe, or Paddy McCartin to factor into this. At least one of them, I suspect, will be here. If we draft DGB tonight, I reckon McCartin will be signed too. If we draft one of the tall forwards, then probably not.
I think we're building a bit of a bank here.
Ruck Forwards Sinclair (31) McLean (21)
Forwards Franklin (34) Paddy McCartin (24)
Tall Backs Rampe (30) Brand (26) Tom McCartin (21) Grainger-Barrass (19)
Couple of assumptions there of course. Now take a look at who is there season start 2024. Add 3 to age.
McLean
Paddy McCartin
Brand
Tom McCartin
DGB
Hopefully Gould by then as a KPD to allow Tom at CHF.
Plus a ruck we recruit this year after Sam, Tom, Cal are all gone.
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