Prediction 2021 Best 22

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Knightmare said:
I don't know what the club have planned for De Goey.

At the time he was drafted, my assumption was always he was drafted to be a mid. But necessity has seen it he has had to play forward, and he has developed into an excellent, albeit inconsistent forward.

Now we're in a situation where the front half is the weakest it has ever been, yet the midfield at the same time is the weakest it has ever been and also has pressing vacancies.

I'm certainly hoping we see more of De Goey through the midfield, maybe it's 50/50 split mid/fwd, and maybe that means opportunities for some of the younger types in the front half, with defence and midfield those two zones of the field where competence and experience is most vital to at least hold up week to week.

Will be interesting to see how it's all managed.
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If I were to speculate, I'd argue that 2021 is an excellent opportunity for game and player development. It seems the club has alluded to that, in so much the letter from Anderson with the mention of 'internal improvement'. Of course that relies heavily on the coaching panel, they really need to step up in this area, particularly in mid, forward and transition game development.

My hope is the panel does shift from window mode to develop mode, if the game improves, even with the weakened front and mid areas we may still contend.
 
Carringbush2010 said:
If I were to speculate, I'd argue that 2021 is an excellent opportunity for game and player development. It seems the club has alluded to that, in so much the letter from Anderson with the mention of 'internal improvement'. Of course that relies heavily on the coaching panel, they really need to step up in this area, particularly in mid, forward and transition game development.

My hope is the panel does shift from window mode to develop mode, if the game improves, even with the weakened front and mid areas we may still contend.
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I share your hope.

As per my best 22 posted earlier, I see 13 worthwhile players I'd look to play every week, then I'd be throwing in as many first and second year players in there as possible, with the hope that a few of them can establish themselves as genuine best 22 players and long term pieces.

For De Goey's development. He absolutely needs those midfield opportunities. We need to see, as he has been inconsistent as a forward, is there a way where though the midfield he can find a greater level of consistency, then when he gets hot go forward and dominate? He's so talented where it sort of feels like we have to find a better way to maximise his game.

Will be interesting to see what gains the coaches make. We can only judge that if we notice differences in 2021.
 
loki04 said:
I could name many main areas of weakness. It wasnt one area.

Forward pressure is only a problem when you cant a)convert inside 50s to marks or retain possession.
B) dont convert your shots on goal or dont convert inside 50s to scoring shots.

Both are issues for us.

Then there is the midfield issue cant buy a center clearence (especially clean one) if we had a fistful of 100s!

Transition play extremely slow overtly safe and wide.

To say fwd pressure was the main area is way off.
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Agree - especially re B. We were in top 3 for I50’s but very low on I50 conversion. Fix the later and we improve markedly.
 

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COLLINGWOOD

B: Brayden Maynard, Jordan Roughead, Jeremy Howe

HB: Jack Crisp, Darcy Moore, Isaac Quaynor

C: Josh Daicos, Scott Pendlebury, Chris Mayne

HF: Callum Brown, Brody Mihocek, Will Hoskin-Elliott

F: Jordan De Goey, Mason Cox, Jamie Elliott

FOLL: Brodie Grundy, Taylor Adams, Steele Sidebottom

I/C: John Noble, Will Kelly, Tyler Brown, Brayden Sier

In: Oliver Henry, Finlay Macrae, Reef McInnes, Caleb Poulter, Liam McMahon, Beau McCreery, Jack Ginnivan, Isaac Chugg

Out: Adam Treloar, Jaidyn Stephenson, Tom Phillips, Atu Bosenavulagi, Ben Reid

We say: The Magpies’ midfield now doesn’t bat as deep as past seasons. The club is hopeful the likes of Callum Brown, Tyler Brown and Brayden Sier can improve their outputs with the extra exposure they’ll receive next year. The draftees in the mix for a Round 1 spot would be midfielder Finlay Macrae and NGA recruit Reef McInnes, who were two of the best on-ball prospects of the 2020 draft class. With strong pre-seasons, they could easily push out any of the Brown brothers or Sier or John Noble. Pressure forward draftee Beau McCreery would be eyeing off Josh Thomas’ spot if he has a sluggish start to the season. Will Kelly is in — and he should be playing lots of senior footy in 2021.


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New faces, new headaches: Every club’s best 22 after the AFL draft

New faces, new headaches: Every club’s best 22 after the AFL draft
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If we want to go forward we need to have a change of personal i think this would be a good starting team for round 1 2021
B Howe Keane Quanor
HB Pendelbury Murphy Crisp
C T.Brown Maynard Daicos
HF Sidebottom Moore Ruscoe
FOR Elliot Kelly Mihocek
FOLL Grundy Degoey Adams
interchange out of.. Rantall Bianco C Brown Wilson
Cox Sier Tohill

Havent put none of the new draftees in for round 1, i think it is important to put games to our 2nd 3rd year players first
 
12kilos said:
If we want to go forward we need to have a change of personal i think this would be a good starting team for round 1 2021
B Howe Keane Quanor
HB Pendelbury Murphy Crisp
C T.Brown Maynard Daicos
HF Sidebottom Moore Ruscoe
FOR Elliot Kelly Mihocek
FOLL Grundy Degoey Adams
interchange out of.. Rantall Bianco C Brown Wilson
Cox Sier Tohill

Havent put none of the new draftees in for round 1, i think it is important to put games to our 2nd 3rd year players first
Click to expand...
It seems Ruscoe is allergic to weights which is unfortunate. Seriously, get some muscles on those sausage arms. How can you be a part of a professional sport team and not physically improve your body? Even the new draft picks have some muscle definition on their slim bodies. His lack of tackling pressure and strength in the contest was glaring this season. Funnily enough, as I watched a fun goal kicking contest between Grundy and Trey, the last comment Grundy directed at Trey was- get in the gym! I'm glad I have Brodie in my corner.
 
12kilos said:
If we want to go forward we need to have a change of personal i think this would be a good starting team for round 1 2021
B Howe Keane Quanor
HB Pendelbury Murphy Crisp
C T.Brown Maynard Daicos
HF Sidebottom Moore Ruscoe
FOR Elliot Kelly Mihocek
FOLL Grundy Degoey Adams
interchange out of.. Rantall Bianco C Brown Wilson
Cox Sier Tohill

Havent put none of the new draftees in for round 1, i think it is important to put games to our 2nd 3rd year players first
Click to expand...
I don't want to start tanking in round one. It sends out a bad vibe to the supporter base. Murphy at CHB? Kelly looks like a floating third tall rather than a key forward and Keane will have to have been taking magic pills overt the summer if he is to lock down full back ahead of Roughy.
 
domus said:
I don't want to start tanking in round one. It sends out a bad vibe to the supporter base. Murphy at CHB? Kelly looks like a floating third tall rather than a key forward and Keane will have to have been taking magic pills overt the summer if he is to lock down full back ahead of Roughy.
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We also dont want to be making up the numbers in the finals either or even worse finish 9th or 10th with an ageing list which we have .We need to bring in new blood.
Roghead will only get worse, maybe Keane will suprise us with another preseason.
 
B. Maynard Roughead Howe
HB. Crisp Moore Quaynor
C. Daicos Pendlebury Sidebottom
HF. Elliott Mihocek Hoskin-Elliott
F. C.Brown Cox Kelly
R. Grundy De Goey Adams
I. Noble T.Brown Sier Murphy
E. Rantall Madgen Greenwood Keane

Start out this way but ideally see Rantall, Bianco, Wilson, Keane and perhaps even some of the new draftees banging the door down and demanding selection

Mayne, Thomas, Greenwood (hand picked him for specific games) hard to get a look in unless injuries bite

Fingers crossed for Murphy he can get a full pre-season and demand a round 1 spot
 
Knightmare said:
Other better outside mids? Whitfield. Gaff more outside than inside though has been asked to play a fair bit inside. It's when looking at their best positions and thinking - they're best situated on a wing. And again, none of them are in those all-time discussions as a Danger/Dusty/Ablett/Fyfe will be and like Steele are that clear tier down.
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Outside mid is currently a less important position, becasue they're in less contests and thus get less possessions - both contested and uncontested. And get bypassed on clean stoppage exits. Thus the best and most complete footballers play on the inside. Personally I'de play Steele on the inside - like the way you're describing Pendles, I think he's an ideal number 2 mid - but that's what we've specialised in - Swan, Pendles, Treloar are most suited to the edge of the pack ready to poune on spills - Swan and Treloar - or distribute with class - Sidey and Pendles. Whitfield is worth his weight in gold as an outsider, because if his teammates can get it to him, noone dissects a zone as effectively as he does. Smith too for his ability to go through and over a zone.
 
domus said:
It seems Ruscoe is allergic to weights which is unfortunate. Seriously, get some muscles on those sausage arms. How can you be a part of a professional sport team and not physically improve your body?...
Click to expand...

The lazy f*cker gets paid to craft his beach rig

Such a missed opportunity for his mattress game
 
sr36 said:
Outside mid is currently a less important position, becasue they're in less contests and thus get less possessions - both contested and uncontested. And get bypassed on clean stoppage exits. Thus the best and most complete footballers play on the inside. Personally I'de play Steele on the inside - like the way you're describing Pendles, I think he's an ideal number 2 mid - but that's what we've specialised in - Swan, Pendles, Treloar are most suited to the edge of the pack ready to poune on spills - Swan and Treloar - or distribute with class - Sidey and Pendles. Whitfield is worth his weight in gold as an outsider, because if his teammates can get it to him, noone dissects a zone as effectively as he does. Smith too for his ability to go through and over a zone.
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Sidebottom on the inside I agree with you is the play.

It's Pendlebury, Adams and then who? So it's almost a necessity along with De Goey pushing through there. Maybe a Rantall can add to that rotation, and maybe he can with some luck develop into that first possession winner at AFL level.

On the outside with Daicos. Maybe get games into Macrae who probably starts outside and later on becomes more inside. Maybe a Bianco if he can push for games can compete for outside time also, and he has good skills and can rack it up on the outside.

We just have to hope these young guys can prove to be the answers, as the midfield is looking as thin as it has in a really long time.

I agree a Whitfield has value. The only slight difference in position regarding the wing position I do have is if I had a Whitfield, I'd either depending on what I need be more inclined to have him play either off half-back or across half-forward, with a view towards starting a tall contested marking type on a wing.

eg. if you let me create an All-time team. Take the best of players from their best seasons. I'd be starting Matthew Richardson and Nick Riewoldt on either wing. And I'd be backing the guys I'd have across half-forward to push up the field and find, use the ball and provide forward pressure and the half-back line to generate meaningful drive to make up for any perceived lack of anything on a wing. I don't necessarily advocate having more talls than the next team, it's possible depending on whether some of them also have small man capabilities, but it's more so a general shifting of players to positions where their influence towards winning can be maximised more broadly is what I'd be looking at. And I'd probably have a Dean Cox in that same team to play that relieving ruck role and he'd be rotating with Riewoldt/Richo on either wing and also playing some forward, to add to that rotation.

It's not a structural usage we've seen on the extreme I'm suggesting. But they're all guys who would be high mark, contested mark, mark i50, intercept mark and goal per game players which is where I see the value in the position being maximised.

Absolutely you want a Whitfield who can as you aptly put it, dissect a zone, but I'd be looking for that kind of thing more-so across the half-back line with those guys there to generate that drive both by foot and with their run.
 
Where's all this dislike for noble come from i thought for a guy with such little experience as he has he's shown quite a lot. I'll be shocked if he isn't picked round 1, has a decent kick on him and with a few more games will get more composed. I feel like we have a 150 gamer right there.
 

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12kilos said:
We also dont want to be making up the numbers in the finals either or even worse finish 9th or 10th with an ageing list which we have .We need to bring in new blood.
Roghead will only get worse, maybe Keane will suprise us with another preseason.
Click to expand...

I agree re Keane. People seem to think Keane can replace Roughy. He may in the longer term but not beginning of 2021.

Keane needs to be brought in to the side as a third tall (Langdon) type role. Let him build his confidence and body as the third banana, don’t expose him to one of the oppositions KPFs too often.

I think people advocating straight swap Keane for Roughy are misguided.
 
Knightmare said:
Sidebottom on the inside I agree with you is the play.

It's Pendlebury, Adams and then who? So it's almost a necessity along with De Goey pushing through there. Maybe a Rantall can add to that rotation, and maybe he can with some luck develop into that first possession winner at AFL level.

On the outside with Daicos. Maybe get games into Macrae who probably starts outside and later on becomes more inside. Maybe a Bianco if he can push for games can compete for outside time also, and he has good skills and can rack it up on the outside.

We just have to hope these young guys can prove to be the answers, as the midfield is looking as thin as it has in a really long time.

I agree a Whitfield has value. The only slight difference in position regarding the wing position I do have is if I had a Whitfield, I'd either depending on what I need be more inclined to have him play either off half-back or across half-forward, with a view towards starting a tall contested marking type on a wing.

eg. if you let me create an All-time team. Take the best of players from their best seasons. I'd be starting Matthew Richardson and Nick Riewoldt on either wing. And I'd be backing the guys I'd have across half-forward to push up the field and find, use the ball and provide forward pressure and the half-back line to generate meaningful drive to make up for any perceived lack of anything on a wing. I don't necessarily advocate having more talls than the next team, it's possible depending on whether some of them also have small man capabilities, but it's more so a general shifting of players to positions where their influence towards winning can be maximised more broadly is what I'd be looking at. And I'd probably have a Dean Cox in that same team to play that relieving ruck role and he'd be rotating with Riewoldt/Richo on either wing and also playing some forward, to add to that rotation.

It's not a structural usage we've seen on the extreme I'm suggesting. But they're all guys who would be high mark, contested mark, mark i50, intercept mark and goal per game players which is where I see the value in the position being maximised.

Absolutely you want a Whitfield who can as you aptly put it, dissect a zone, but I'd be looking for that kind of thing more-so across the half-back line with those guys there to generate that drive both by foot and with their run.
Click to expand...
I do think a move back to prefacing marking skills for wingmen is on the cards in order to give better contests with long down the line options. It used to be the way. Gavin Brown and Darren Millane would be inside mids today because of their elite contested work, but were wingmen in their prime due to elite marking skills. But I think the KPF guys like Naughton are unlikely as you lose too much run and carry and linking potential. If you were talking Jeremy Howe, I'd agree - as he'd give you a marking option and a linking option. I'd be looking at the medium marking forward types, as it's a position in decline, but they usually have better agility and general play ball use than most kpp.
 
Thedivided said:
Where's all this dislike for noble come from i thought for a guy with such little experience as he has he's shown quite a lot. I'll be shocked if he isn't picked round 1, has a decent kick on him and with a few more games will get more composed. I feel like we have a 150 gamer right there.
Click to expand...

Fumble and go to ground city found a new Collingwood member to replace Goldsack when Noble joined the club. I like everything else he brings to the table, but I hold my breath whenever it feeds out to him in a contested situation. Given how AFL is played these days that’s a lot. Unless he works on those two areas he’ll always be bottom 6 or thereabouts and once a fumbler always a fumbler, IMO...
 
Scodog10 said:
Fumble and go to ground city found a new Collingwood member to replace Goldsack when Noble joined the club. I like everything else he brings to the table, but I hold my breath whenever it feeds out to him in a contested situation. Given how AFL is played these days that’s a lot. Unless he works on those two areas he’ll always be bottom 6 or thereabouts and once a fumbler always a fumbler, IMO...
Click to expand...

I think he has the tools to be a decent enough winger, not so much a defender in our back 6. Seems too small and would be someone the opposition will try to target going inside 50, and he doesn't seem to have a cool enough head when the ball hits the deck or the pressure is put on.

That being said he has nice enough skills and a turn of pace that our midfield could really benefit from having, so I think a wing position might be his best bet. Additionally I would rather the fumbles you mention occur further up the wing rather than in our defensive 50.
 
FB: Maynard, Roughead, Howe
HB: Noble, Moore, Crisp
C: Daicos, Pendlebury, Quaynor
HF: Sidebottom, Mihocek, Hoskin-Elliott
FF: Elliott, Cox, Kelly
Foll: Grundy, Adams, De Goey
I: Sier, Greenwood, T.Brown, Mayne

I'd fully expect Rantall, Bianco, and even one or two of the new draftees to push the likes of Greenwood and Mayne out of the side by the end of the year. Possibly even Henry pushing WHE out, although he might not have the size to consistently play at the highest level yet.
 
Johno9911 said:
I think he has the tools to be a decent enough winger, not so much a defender in our back 6. Seems too small and would be someone the opposition will try to target going inside 50, and he doesn't seem to have a cool enough head when the ball hits the deck or the pressure is put on.

That being said he has nice enough skills and a turn of pace that our midfield could really benefit from having, so I think a wing position might be his best bet. Additionally I would rather the fumbles you mention occur further up the wing rather than in our defensive 50.
Click to expand...

I think your rationale is sound, but I doubt he’s ever a mid under Buckley because he’s not physical enough. Not saying he has to be Adams 2.0 or that it would be an issue for me it’s just that he’s too slight based on how we’ve liked our mids the past 15-20 years. The inclusions of Reef and Henry will challenge him as a defender too.
 
Apex36 said:
FB: Maynard, Roughead, Howe
HB: IQ, Moore, Crisp
C: Daicos, Pendles, Bianco
HF: Henry, Kelly, Mihocek
FF: Elliott, Cox, JDG
Foll: Grundy, Adams, Sidey
Int: Sier, McCreery, Murphy, Rantall
Click to expand...

😬

6 guys with a combined 3 matches to their name in our best 22 spells danger to me.
 
Thedivided said:
Where's all this dislike for noble come from i thought for a guy with such little experience as he has he's shown quite a lot. I'll be shocked if he isn't picked round 1, has a decent kick on him and with a few more games will get more composed. I feel like we have a 150 gamer right there.
Click to expand...
I don’t think he has enough elite attributes to make it. He’s playing a decent role but would hope someone overtakes him.
 
grayza2018 said:
B. Maynard Roughead Howe
HB. Crisp Moore Quaynor
C. Daicos Pendlebury Sidebottom
HF. Elliott Mihocek Hoskin-Elliott
F. C.Brown Cox Kelly
R. Grundy De Goey Adams
I. Noble T.Brown Sier Murphy
E. Rantall Madgen Greenwood Keane

Start out this way but ideally see Rantall, Bianco, Wilson, Keane and perhaps even some of the new draftees banging the door down and demanding selection

Mayne, Thomas, Greenwood (hand picked him for specific games) hard to get a look in unless injuries bite

Fingers crossed for Murphy he can get a full pre-season and demand a round 1 spot
Click to expand...
OK, so your personnel roughly matches Jen's. I must say I prefer Mayne in the starting 18 as we need his experience and his 100% commitment on the field.
I was a bit surprised Jen didn't mention Greenwood. He's another I would start the season with, with a view to weening in a newbie.
So I reckon start the season with best most experienced 18 and then start to mould the new team.
 
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