Prediction 2021 Best 22

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LuckyLee

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Mar 23, 2019
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Neither Pendles or Sides have never been quick, and their disposal, on face value has always been at the pointy end. You're speculating that their 'best is behind them' purely coz age. They're 30 something not 50 something, their DE (motor skills) isn't going to fall away suddenly as it seems you're alluding to. And there's no actual age for all and sundry that it's your time to drop off.

And I agree with the rest of your post but that does not mean Pendles and Sides are past their best form. This is very hard to argue your position on face value.
How well do you reckon Pendles, Sidey, JDG, Sier and the Brown boys are gonna go with all the two-way running when Grundy repeatedly taps it down the throat of guys like Bontempelli, Martin, Petracca and Yeo? We will get chopped up. We need the seasoned, fit, big bodies of Crisp and Maynard.


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Carringbush2010

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How well do you reckon Pendles, Sidey, JDG, Sier and the Brown boys are gonna go with all the two-way running when Grundy repeatedly taps it down the throat of guys like Bontempelli, Martin, Petracca and Yeo? We will get chopped up. We need the seasoned, fit, big bodies of Crisp and Maynard.


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You're not reading my replies, I'm not disagreeing with your views for our midfield woes. I'm disagreeing that Sides and Pendles are past their best.

Look we're going into a couple of years of development, re the younger brigade, hence the discussion around moving the chess pieces around to best alleviate our glaring deficiencies. That's is the only positive for the immediate to medium term - agreed. That does not equate to these two as 'past their best'.
 

LuckyLee

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You're not reading my replies, I'm not disagreeing with your views for our midfield woes. I'm disagreeing that Sides and Pendles are past their best.

Look we're going into a couple of years of development, re the younger brigade, hence the discussion around moving the chess pieces around to best alleviate our glaring deficiencies. That's is the only positive for the immediate to medium term - agreed. That does not equate to these two as 'past their best'.
Fair enough. To be clear, I’m optimistic not pessimistic. I love the clean-out of deadwood and re-stocking with a bunch of very promising youngsters. But I think we’ll need a positional reshuffle of senior players to get us through the transition period until the youngsters become best-22.


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Carringbush2010

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Fair enough. To be clear, I’m optimistic not pessimistic. I love the clean-out of deadwood and re-stocking with a bunch of very promising youngsters. But I think we’ll need a positional reshuffle of senior players to get us through the transition period until the youngsters become best-22.


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Yeah with you there Lee, the optimism is in the development, if that development hopefully goes really well (player and game) we may even contend for finals. That shuffle should be to a view of developing the youngsters not an all in flag tilt coz we just aren't contending this year or the next, not impossible but highly unlikely. And gunning for a flag now would likely take away development games for the youngsters.

Not gonna be fun for a while for us fans but hey we're immune to that.

Just gotta hope like hell now that the premiers fall away and the blose and bomb outs stall their improvement, if those last two improve they may pass us by sadly.
 

Kappa

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Neither Pendles or Sides have never been quick, and their disposal, on face value has always been at the pointy end. You're speculating that their 'best is behind them' purely coz age. They're 30 something not 50 something, their DE (motor skills) isn't going to fall away suddenly as it seems you're alluding to. And there's no actual age for all and sundry that it's your time to drop off.

And I agree with the rest of your post but that does not mean Pendles and Sides are past their best form. This is very hard to argue your position on face value.
If age doesn't mean much as you argue, why are there only a handful of players over 33 in the entire AFL? Your post comes across as delusional, every athlete drops off after 30. If you think their best isn't behind them well you just don't understand the human body. Just because speed isn't their main weapon, doesn't mean getting slower and having less reaction time won't impact their games.
 

jackcass

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First up, you’re relying on no injuries to Pendles, Sidey and Adams, which is unlikely. Secondly, Cal Brown was quite ineffectual as a midfielder and Tyler is totally unproven, as are Reef, Rantall and Macrae. Sier and DeGoey look the goods but are inconsistent and injury-prone - and playing DeGoey primarily as a mid blunts our scoring output.

We need to play the bulls - Maynard and Crisp - if we hope to compete with this:
1. Bontempelli
2. Dunkley
3. Macrae
4. Treloar
5. Smith
6. Hunter
7. Liberatore
8. Wallis


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I think you need to go back and re-watch R1 2020. That midfield you are suggesting will belt us (+ Treloar) is the same that we belted with the midfield you’re lamenting (- Phillips).
 

Seedsfan

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If age doesn't mean much as you argue, why are there only a handful of players over 33 in the entire AFL? Your post comes across as delusional, every athlete drops off after 30. If you think their best isn't behind them well you just don't understand the human body. Just because speed isn't their main weapon, doesn't mean getting slower and having less reaction time won't impact their games.
Tom Brady?
 

pies 4 ever

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First up, you’re relying on no injuries to Pendles, Sidey and Adams, which is unlikely. Secondly, Cal Brown was quite ineffectual as a midfielder and Tyler is totally unproven, as are Reef, Rantall and Macrae. Sier and DeGoey look the goods but are inconsistent and injury-prone - and playing DeGoey primarily as a mid blunts our scoring output.
We need to play the bulls - Maynard and Crisp - if we hope to compete with this:
1. Bontempelli
2. Dunkley
3. Macrae
4. Treloar
5. Smith
6. Hunter
7. Liberatore
8. Wallis
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Please remind me again how badly we got pants by the Dogs last year?
Also, why are we unlikely to have all of Pendles, Sidey and Adams available, but you assume they will have a full squad of Mids?
I never understand why when comparing sides we always assume the opposition will have full squads but we are likely to have injuries. its a new year, all sides start off with a full squads, less long term injured, and as of now, we have a full squad of mids.

Ok, this year they add Treloar, but we absolutely flogged them and we add De Goey through the mids and, I agree, hopefully at least one of Crisp or Maynard.

We won that game through the pressure we applied and if we do that again this year we will flog them again.
 
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Carringbush2010

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If age doesn't mean much as you argue, why are there only a handful of players over 33 in the entire AFL? Your post comes across as delusional, every athlete drops off after 30. If you think their best isn't behind them well you just don't understand the human body. Just because speed isn't their main weapon, doesn't mean getting slower and having less reaction time won't impact their games.
Yeah not like the way it's being put forward, not everyone drops off a cliff at an alarming rate of knots after 30. Pendles a case in point.

Yes it's highly likely that Pendles at least, (not Sides necessarily) WILL have a form drop off soon, hasn't happened yet though has it.
 

Seedsfan

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A QB is obviously extremely forgiving when it comes to age because they don't need to run or have lightning reflexes, there are no similarities to an AFL mid who has to run up to 15km a day at high speed, plus tackle, have lightning fast hands inside packs ect.
There reflexes have to be great to hit their receivers while also avoiding the rush and not getting sacked.

We are seeing more and more players across all sports playing later on. Brad Thorn, George Smith, Cam Smith, Jimmy Anderson have all kept performing to an incredibly high level until their late 30s, 40s
 

Kappa

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There reflexes have to be great to hit their receivers while also avoiding the rush and not getting sacked.

We are seeing more and more players across all sports playing later on. Brad Thorn, George Smith, Cam Smith, Jimmy Anderson have all kept performing to an incredibly high level until their late 30s, 40s
1: no one's denying that Pendles can play for a long time, the only argument is people saying he will still be performing at his best well into his 30s, which would be a miracle at afl level. He is slowing down and his role will change from a superstar to a role player.

2: what's the point of these silly apples and oranges comparisons? Jimmy Anderson jogs in and bowls 128km medium pacers then walks around in the outfield. Brilliantly skilled, but not really comparable to an AFL mid who needs to run 15km a day, react at lightning speed, elite agility, chase, tackle, harass ect ect..

A better comparison would be Ablett jnr, who didn't rely on pace either but transitioned from star to a burst style role player in his mid 30s.
 

Seedsfan

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1: no one's denying that Pendles can play for a long time, the only argument is people saying he will still be performing at his best well into his 30s, which would be a miracle at afl level. He is slowing down and his role will change from a superstar to a role player.

2: what's the point of these silly apples and oranges comparisons? Jimmy Anderson jogs in and bowls 128km medium pacers then walks around in the outfield. Brilliantly skilled, but not really comparable to an AFL mid who needs to run 15km a day, react at lightning speed, elite agility, chase, tackle, harass ect ect..

A better comparison would be Ablett jnr, who didn't rely on pace either but transitioned from star to a burst style role player in his mid 30s.
Fast bowlers run over 15k a day and then back up the next day.

The point is we are seeing a lot of players on all sports managing to play longer than expected
 

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Kappa

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Fast bowlers run over 15k a day and then back up the next day.

The point is we are seeing a lot of players on all sports managing to play longer than expected
You know most of that 15km is walking around to a new fielding position in between 6+ hours of fielding right? Again, nothing like what an AFL player goes through.

Again, no one is arguing that Pendles can't play until his late 30's, I feel like you're trying to change the goal posts now. Everyone agrees that Pendles can keep playing for a while yet, but you keep seem to dragging the argument back to this point.
 

Carringbush2010

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the only argument is people saying he will still be performing at his best well into his 30s
Haven't read on here that people are stating that, not me certainly.

There is no evidence yet that Pendles is past his best. May be realized in the first 6 rounds, who knows, until then the view he's already past it is purely speculation.
 

pies 4 ever

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There reflexes have to be great to hit their receivers while also avoiding the rush and not getting sacked.
We are seeing more and more players across all sports playing later on. Brad Thorn, George Smith, Cam Smith, Jimmy Anderson have all kept performing to an incredibly high level until their late 30s, 40s
There are freaks in every code and Pendles might be one of them, but many play one year too many. I have no problem with Pendles playing this year & prob. the next, but I am sure he and the club have been reviewing it every year.
Personally, I would like him to take his place on HB, Wing or HF and inject himself into the mids when needed, just like Burgoyne has done for the last few years.
 

LuckyLee

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Mar 23, 2019
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I think you need to go back and re-watch R1 2020. That midfield you are suggesting will belt us (+ Treloar) is the same that we belted with the midfield you’re lamenting (- Phillips).
Well, we’ll know soon enough. Aren’t we scheduled to meet in Rd1? I’m confident you’ll be eating your words - unless Crisp and/or Maynard get substantial midfield minutes. I’ll be very happy to be proven wrong and to issue you and unreserved apology. I wonder if you’ll do the same if we get taken to the cleaners?


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LuckyLee

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Please remind me again how badly we got pants by the Dogs last year?
Also, why are we unlikely to have all of Pendles, Sidey and Adams available, but you assume they will have a full squad of Mids?
I never understand why when comparing sides we always assume the opposition will have full squads but we are likely to have injuries. its a new year, all sides start off with a full squads, less long term injured, and as of now, we have a full squad of mids.

Ok, this year they add Treloar, but we absolutely flogged them and we add De Goey through the mids and, I agree, hopefully at least one of Crisp or Maynard.

We won that game through the pressure we applied and if we do that again this year we will flog them again.
Let’s reassess after we face them in Rd1. Very happy to be proven wrong and issue apology if it plays out as you suggest.


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Carringbush2010

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The practical thing to do here is focus on game and player development for 2021 / 22.

Any serious flag tilt might be detrimental to that development.

This is what I'd like to see anyway.
 

pies 4 ever

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Let’s reassess after we face them in Rd1. Very happy to be proven wrong and issue apology if it plays out as you suggest.
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I don't want an apology you didn't say anything to apologise about. It's about the team that we both love. I just responded to your post and its assumptions
You indicated they had a far better midfield than us. I responded that it was almost the same midfield as they had last year when we flogged them
You also said, "you’re relying on no injuries to Pendles, Sidey and Adams, which is unlikely". I said, why should we expect an injury to one or more of those 3 and not to some of the Dogs players?
I did agree with you that we should be introducing Crisp and/or Maynard to the midfield.
 

LuckyLee

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I don't want an apology you didn't say anything to apologise about. It's about the team that we both love. I just responded to your post and its assumptions
You indicated they had a far better midfield than us. I responded that it was almost the same midfield as they had last year when we flogged them
You also said, "you’re relying on no injuries to Pendles, Sidey and Adams, which is unlikely". I said, why should we expect an injury to one or more of those 3 and not to some of the Dogs players?
I did agree with you that we should be introducing Crisp and/or Maynard to the midfield.
Good stuff - I enjoy the robust discussion of different opinions and agree that we’re both coming from a position of wanting absolute success for the team and supporters.

I’m actually more upbeat and excited than for several years - for a long time we have carried a lot of over-the-hill players and others who were never going to make it. We’ve had a big, somewhat painful clean-out and there are now 3-4 best 22 spots up for grabs for the many exciting young players that we now have on our list.

My main argument - if that’s the word for it - is that we need a positional reshuffle of our senior players to accommodate the youngsters and optimise team structure until those youngsters are able to really assert themselves and lock-down best-22 spots. For my money, that reshuffle involves Crisp and/or Maynard moving forward into the midfield rotation and I was surprised to hear from Jen that they haven’t been training at all with the mids. We have an over-supply of capable defenders and an under supply of experienced midfielders so, to me at least, those two are obvious choices to re-assign. Gotta take some risks in the pursuit of ultimate success.


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Gone Critical

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Neither Pendles or Sides have never been quick, and their disposal, on face value has always been at the pointy end. You're speculating that their 'best is behind them' purely coz age. They're 30 something not 50 something, their DE (motor skills) isn't going to fall away suddenly as it seems you're alluding to. And there's no actual age for all and sundry that it's your time to drop off.

And I agree with the rest of your post but that does not mean Pendles and Sides are past their best form. This is very hard to argue your position on face value.
I think Sidey is fine for now but Pendles is much more chance of dropping off this season. He has to return to full matches not the shortened version of 2020. While there will be exceptions very few mids, even the guns, remain as full time mids by age 33.

Despite what you say 30 something is elderly for a mid and the fall off is often sudden
 

Carringbush2010

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I think Sidey is fine for now but Pendles is much more chance of dropping off this season. He has to return to full matches not the shortened version of 2020. While there will be exceptions very few mids, even the guns, remain as full time mids by age 33.

Despite what you say 30 something is elderly for a mid and the fall off is often sudden
Yeah I agree with all of that, just purely stating it hasn't happened yet. Some on here already have that as already happened.
 

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