Prediction 2021 Best 22

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Quicky

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I would have retained Wills but honestly most of last years depth was useful as tits on a bull.

Greenwood probably has been passed by already (Sier and T Brown... I'm looking at you two) ... so technically now hes a depth player. Over time Thomas and Mayne could join him in the VFL.
Yeah I get where people are coming from with that. I think Greenwood has flexibility fwd and back, in addition to mid. With our lack of depth I think he'll get games despite his slowing form.
 

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manicpie

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Yeah I get where people are coming from with that. I think Greenwood has flexibility fwd and back, in addition to mid. With our lack of depth I think he'll get games despite his slowing form.
Didn't he come off a knee reco last year? I thought he played some good games, you never know, with a good pre season he might be more than handy
 

pies 4 ever

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Greenwood's slowing down but we don't have a lot coming through underneath. I'm really concerned about our depth this season. I think we'll get caught out.
I think we actually have a lot coming through, but just not this early.
Reef & Keane are recovering from a finger injuries, but both will be back in the next fortnight.
Kelly will be back from his injury in the next few weeks.
Macrae's father died suddenly a few weeks ago and he missed the Cats & Tigs. game. Most thought he would get picked.
Bianco was in line to play, but did not train this week, not sure what injury he has.
Poulter & McMahon both looks good but need 8 or 10kgs.
Rantall & McCreery have both missed training with niggles.
Ginivan kicked 4 in the VFL game.
Chugg is tracking well.

Reef, Keane, Kelly, Macrae and Bianco should all debut this year, and It would not surprise if McCreery and a couple of others also push for selection.

Our problem is there is no VFL for the next few weeks, so it will be difficult for these players to show what they can do until they can get weekly competitive VFL games.
 

sr36

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Greenwood's slowing down but we don't have a lot coming through underneath. I'm really concerned about our depth this season. I think we'll get caught out.
We may have a lot coming through, but they're all still in cross your fingers and hope territory.

I quite like our team, but I'm concerned that we don't run well enough. When I look at our team, I think we're a big chance to get done over in both pace and endurance.
 

LuckyLee

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We may have a lot coming through, but they're all still in cross your fingers and hope territory.

I quite like our team, but I'm concerned that we don't run well enough. When I look at our team, I think we're a big chance to get done over in both pace and endurance.
Two-way running has been a weakness for several years and only made worse by loss of Treloar and Phillips. We’re going to leak some horribly easy rebound goals when we turn it over. Shifting Noble to a wing will help a bit but overall I share your concerns and think we’ll be over-run by fitter/faster sides.


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Quicky

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We may have a lot coming through, but they're all still in cross your fingers and hope territory.

I quite like our team, but I'm concerned that we don't run well enough. When I look at our team, I think we're a big chance to get done over in both pace and endurance.
Yeah it's probably not fair for me to say there's not a lot coming through. Of course there is. Just not too many of relevance to the short term round one selection discussion.
 

sr36

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Yeah it's probably not fair for me to say there's not a lot coming through. Of course there is. Just not too many of relevance to the short term round one selection discussion.
Not unfair. The thing is we've just got so many unknowns.

The 7 we picked up this year + Rantall, Bianco, Ruscoe, Keane, Tohill, Wilson. That's about 30% of our list. God knows what we've got in that group.
 

jonmacTrag

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Not unfair. The thing is we've just got so many unknowns.

The 7 we picked up this year + Rantall, Bianco, Ruscoe, Keane, Tohill, Wilson. That's about 30% of our list. God knows what we've got in that group.
No VFL has hurt them all, we are not the only club uncertain over this years crop of youngsters.
 

Gone Critical

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No VFL has hurt them all, we are not the only club uncertain over this years crop of youngsters.
We have by far the biggest crop from the 2020 draft and a total of 23 players on our list (54%) who have a shared experience of 95 games total experience.

a couple of those like Quaynor and Siershould be best 22 but the rest are still fairly unknown so we are going to find out a lot in the months ahead

I think this is a pretty unusual list situation and if Hine has weaved some magic with his selections happy days. There of course is also the real possibility that not many in that big group make it and we are left with a big hole in the list.

going to be an interesting season
 

Scodog10

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Two-way running has been a weakness for several years and only made worse by loss of Treloar and Phillips. We’re going to leak some horribly easy rebound goals when we turn it over. Shifting Noble to a wing will help a bit but overall I share your concerns and think we’ll be over-run by fitter/faster sides.


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Treloar? A loss to our two way running? You’re having a lend surely! He would be one of the worst two way runners league wide and if you were looking at a purely on field reason to move his salary that’s the one. There was a passage of play in the semi final that’s been burned into my brain we’re Geelong strolled out of a contest (which can happen) and Treloar was the sweeper, but just stood there. That’s what we lost defensively with him. Fantastic running forward horrible in defensive transition.

Phillips though was a fantastic two way player through 17-19, but we’d moved on from him by 2020 because he chopped it. Perhaps that ball use was a result of him simply being gassed, but there’s no point running for your life if you can’t have an impact once you get it. That’s what made both Cousins and Harvey so brilliant. They would run all day and still have an impact with ball in hand.

I’d say our two way run is worse off than 2019 not because of those two who net off, but I don’t expect Steele or Pendles to be able to cover the ground as well as they once did. Against 2020 though so long as Sier and T Brown are able to spread at a league standard we’re ahead.
 

Scodog10

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Yeah it's probably not fair for me to say there's not a lot coming through. Of course there is. Just not too many of relevance to the short term round one selection discussion.
From GC’s list I would expect IQ, Henry, Sier and T Brown to play on Friday. Beyond that Macrae won’t be too far off. You can probably chuck Kelly and Keane into that mix too because I think they’re the next talls in.

Barring injury I’d be surprised if all of them don’t get 15+ games into them this year based on Buckley’s talk about investing in youth. Taking a group from a combined 50 odd matches to up to 150 in a season will hold us in good stead for 2022 and beyond.

My only doubt is if it gets all too hard for Buckley and the rest of the coaching group will they stay the youth course or revert to type by sticking with C Brown, Mayne, Greenwood etc. soldiers of course, but we’ve seen what they’ve got.
 

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Timmy from Thomastown

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From GC’s list I would expect IQ, Henry, Sier and T Brown to play on Friday. Beyond that Macrae won’t be too far off. You can probably chuck Kelly into that mix too because I think he’s the next tall in.

Barring injury I’d be surprised if all of them don’t get 15+ games into them this year based on Buckley’s talk about investing in youth. Taking a group from a combined 50 odd matches to up to 150 in a season will hold us in good stead for 2022 and beyond.

My only doubt is if it gets all too hard for Buckley and the rest of the coaching group will they stay the youth course or revert to type by sticking with C Brown, Mayne, Greenwood etc. soldiers of course, but we’ve seen what they’ve got.
I expect Keane to get a good block of games this year.
 

Scodog10

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I expect Keane to get a good block of games this year.
You were a smidge quick for me!

I think the biggest positive is we should have answers on a number of guys post 2021. They don’t need to be yes’, but getting exposure is critical.

I also want to stress that we aren’t in a vacuum most clubs in the top half of the ladder would be looking at their U21 group post 2020 and asking similar questions.

Richmond for instance lost their second best kid this past off season and haven’t found many over the past few years to replace Cotchin, Edwards, Houli, Reiwoldt and Lambert (no Martin because he’ll play til he’s 35+). They’ve definitely been finding them with Balta, Baker and Bolton, but not at the same rate as Brisbane, Port and Freo who have been getting hit after hit. They don’t really know if RCD, CCJ, Dow, Stack, Naish, Ross and Martyn are quality or not. I’m sure they’re hoping like contestants on MAFS that they have their ticks post 2021, but it’s unlikely because they’re win now and only injuries will see them get exposure.*

Continuing the Richmond comparison there’s two key differences that really have nothing to do with the quality of youth at each club:

1. They managed their cap infinitely better. We sacrificed Stephenson and they lost Higgins. We sacrificed Treloar and they didn’t give Edwards a stupid deal 3 years ago. We sacrificed Phillips and they retained McIntosh. From 17-20 they’ve lost players year to year (Ellis x 2, Higgins, Miles, Butler, Conca and Stengle) we lost Aish and Fasolo so it came back to bite us because you can’t keep them all in the modern game.

2. Our decision to royally fu** our salary cap needed to be corrected and we chose to do it via the draft when no one else wanted to touch the draft. They haven’t been blooding players on a consistent basis for years either so if they were faced with the same salary cap scenario they’d have a similarly skewed list.

We may not like the answers post 2021, but knowing is half the battle won.

*this ain’t doom and gloom on Richmond time. They’re a better run club than ours was 18-20, but they’ll have challenges over the next 2-3 years as those 5 depart. My greatest fear is that they lose a Reiwoldt, but because they’re so well run they simply go to the market and replace him with a Naughton...
 
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unplugged

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You were a smidge quick for me!

I think the biggest positive is we should have answers on a number of guys post 2021. They don’t need to be yes’, but getting exposure is critical.

I also want to stress that we aren’t in a vacuum most clubs in the top half of the ladder would be looking at their U21 group post 2020 and asking similar questions.

Richmond for instance lost their second best kid this past off season and haven’t found many over the past few years to replace Cotchin, Edwards, Houli, Reiwoldt and Lambert (no Martin because he’ll play til he’s 35+). They’ve definitely been finding them with Balta, Baker and Bolton, but not at the same rate as Brisbane, Port and Freo who have been getting hit after hit. They don’t really know if RCD, CCJ, Dow, Stack, Naish, Ross and Martyn are quality or not. I’m sure they’re hoping like contestants on MAFS that they have their ticks post 2021, but it’s unlikely because they’re win now and only injuries will see them get exposure.*

Continuing the Richmond comparison there’s two key differences that really have nothing to do with the quality of youth at each club:

1. They managed their cap infinitely better. We sacrificed Stephenson and they lost Higgins. We sacrificed Treloar and they didn’t give Edwards a stupid deal 3 years ago. We sacrificed Phillips and they retained McIntosh. From 17-20 they’ve lost players year to year (Ellis x 2, Higgins, Miles, Butler, Conca and Stengle) we lost Aish and Fasolo so it came back to bite us because you can’t keep them all in the modern game.

2. Our decision to royally fu** our salary cap needed to be corrected and we chose to do it via the draft when no one else wanted to touch the draft. They haven’t been blooding players on a consistent basis for years either so if they were faced with the same salary cap scenario they’d have a similarly skewed list.

We may not like the answers post 2021, but knowing is half the battle won.

*this ain’t doom and gloom on Richmond time. They’re a better run club than ours was 18-20, but they’ll have challenges over the next 2-3 years as those 5 depart. My greatest fear is that they lose a Reiwoldt, but because they’re so well run they simply go to the market and replace him with a Naughton...
That's by far and away the worst part about Free Agency. Provided their Riewoldts, Cotchins, etc. can justifiably earn decent coin until they retire, they'll no doubt replace them with premium FA players.

Unfortunately the days seem to be over where a good team loses a generational player and it truly sets them back.
 

jonmacTrag

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We have by far the biggest crop from the 2020 draft and a total of 23 players on our list (54%) who have a shared experience of 95 games total experience.

a couple of those like Quaynor and Siershould be best 22 but the rest are still fairly unknown so we are going to find out a lot in the months ahead

I think this is a pretty unusual list situation and if Hine has weaved some magic with his selections happy days. There of course is also the real possibility that not many in that big group make it and we are left with a big hole in the list.

going to be an interesting season
No arguments with the size of our crop but I reiterate we are not alone in the uncertainty of recruits coming into our system.

I have no argument with the size of the cull because the list had become so lopsided and fundamentally out of date with the modern game. The way it was done with such a lack of sensitivity is not to my taste but I am forced to look at big sport in other spheres to see that this is the way that all professional sport is heading. There is no room for emotion in the operation of professional sporting organizations now and this will become more obvious as the knock on effect of changing financial and cultural changes in the larger community work to change the way sport itself is viewed.

This will be a challenging year but we are not alone in that challenge - other clubs face similar challenges down the road and I'm confident the face of the game will change more or less radically than we might imagine.

As supporters we have been cast to live in - as the Chinese say - 'in interesting times'.
 

Scodog10

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That's by far and away the worst part about Free Agency. Provided their Riewoldts, Cotchins, etc. can justifiably earn decent coin until they retire, they'll no doubt replace them with premium FA players.

Unfortunately the days seem to be over where a good team loses a generational player and it truly sets them back.
You’re going to dislike this, but I think it’s the best part for Collingwood.

It encourages clubs to be well run and build a culture of sustainability. For instance we make better decisions in the lead up to Lynch hitting the market (no Wells and no Mayne) then we probably have two extra premierships and don’t bring in Beams. On the balance of things I think we’re a well run club off field (especially with the departures of Ed and Walsh) we just haven’t cashed in.

If we have two premierships under our belt it makes any decisions post 2020 that much easier and probably not necessary because others are more prepared to take cuts to hunt another. We then do what I discussed with Reiwoldt with Pendles>Taranto/ Petracca as an example. We just need to stop making brain fart decisions because they hurt every club except Geelong.
 

unplugged

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You’re going to dislike this, but I think it’s the best part for Collingwood.

It encourages clubs to be well run and build a culture of sustainability. For instance we make better decisions in the lead up to Lynch hitting the market (no Wells and no Mayne) then we probably have two extra premierships and don’t bring in Beams. On the balance of things I think we’re a well run club off field (especially with the departures of Ed and Walsh) we just haven’t cashed in.

If we have two premierships under our belt it makes any decisions post 2020 that much easier and probably not necessary because others are more prepared to take cuts to hunt another. We then do what I discussed with Reiwoldt with Pendles>Taranto/ Petracca as an example. We just need to stop making brain fart decisions because they hurt every club except Geelong.
As I wrote my previous post I realised we'll hopefully be in a similar position to replace Pendlebury with a FA in the same way that they'll be able to replace Cotchin/Riewoldt. However I think the end will come suddenly for those two, whereas Pendles will be a year-by-year proposition like Burgoyne.

I just hope he dwindles down to next-to-nothing as far as salary goes so we can have him overlap with a Taranto, Petracca, Kelly, Merrett, etc. so that we can have our cake and eat it, too.

Knowing our luck we'd have to pry Merrett out via a trade (matched RFA) which would probably cost us our 2022 first, Sier and another young promising player.

It's the good clubs getting RFA's across without any matching which grinds my gears the most.
 

Billys Back

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You’re going to dislike this, but I think it’s the best part for Collingwood.

It encourages clubs to be well run and build a culture of sustainability. For instance we make better decisions in the lead up to Lynch hitting the market (no Wells and no Mayne) then we probably have two extra premierships and don’t bring in Beams. On the balance of things I think we’re a well run club off field (especially with the departures of Ed and Walsh) we just haven’t cashed in.

If we have two premierships under our belt it makes any decisions post 2020 that much easier and probably not necessary because others are more prepared to take cuts to hunt another. We then do what I discussed with Reiwoldt with Pendles>Taranto/ Petracca as an example. We just need to stop making brain fart decisions because they hurt every club except Geelong.
And the Tigers have shown how quickly things can turn around if you have the right people at the club.
 

Billys Back

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As I wrote my previous post I realised we'll hopefully be in a similar position to replace Pendlebury with a FA in the same way that they'll be able to replace Cotchin/Riewoldt. However I think the end will come suddenly for those two, whereas Pendles will be a year-by-year proposition like Burgoyne.

I just hope he dwindles down to next-to-nothing as far as salary goes so we can have him overlap with a Taranto, Petracca, Kelly, Merrett, etc. so that we can have our cake and eat it, too.

Knowing our luck we'd have to pry Merrett out via a trade (matched RFA) which would probably cost us our 2022 first, Sier and another young promising player.

It's the good clubs getting RFA's across without any matching which grinds my gears the most.
Unless the bombers finish well below us which is a possibility
 

sr36

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Treloar? A loss to our two way running? You’re having a lend surely! He would be one of the worst two way runners league wide and if you were looking at a purely on field reason to move his salary that’s the one. There was a passage of play in the semi final that’s been burned into my brain we’re Geelong strolled out of a contest (which can happen) and Treloar was the sweeper, but just stood there. That’s what we lost defensively with him. Fantastic running forward horrible in defensive transition.

Phillips though was a fantastic two way player through 17-19, but we’d moved on from him by 2020 because he chopped it. Perhaps that ball use was a result of him simply being gassed, but there’s no point running for your life if you can’t have an impact once you get it. That’s what made both Cousins and Harvey so brilliant. They would run all day and still have an impact with ball in hand.

I’d say our two way run is worse off than 2019 not because of those two who net off, but I don’t expect Steele or Pendles to be able to cover the ground as well as they once did. Against 2020 though so long as Sier and T Brown are able to spread at a league standard we’re ahead.
Treloar might not have been good at running for defensive purposes, so your argument about two way running may be true, but he never stopped running. Does anyone get to more contests or present as an option more often then Treloar? His running will be a loss. Particularly considering we need a boost around the contest and in transition, which is what his running gave us.

We hadn't moved on from Phillips. He played every game until injured. Him not playing wing might very well have changed now that we're going back to full quarters with less interchanges.

The last three times I've heard Bucks talk about the upcoming season, he's expressed concern about the longer quarters and fewer interchanges and teams running out matches. I don't think he'd be as concerned if we still had Phillips and Treloar on the list.
 

stormskye

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Their defence and midfield were rock-solid last year, but it was the forward line - and more specifically, the connection between the mids and the forwards - that cruelled the Magpies last season. They ranked 13th for points scored and 15th for scores per inside 50, all because that last crucial kick was usually poor. When kicking inside 50, Nathan Buckley’s side ranked 15th for retention rate and 17th for mark rate; in 2019, they ranked fifth and second respectively

🤮. Let’s hope this trend doesn’t continue
 

Boris the Contradiction

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Their defence and midfield were rock-solid last year, but it was the forward line - and more specifically, the connection between the mids and the forwards - that cruelled the Magpies last season. They ranked 13th for points scored and 15th for scores per inside 50, all because that last crucial kick was usually poor. When kicking inside 50, Nathan Buckley’s side ranked 15th for retention rate and 17th for mark rate; in 2019, they ranked fifth and second respectively

🤮. Let’s hope this trend doesn’t continue
Content warning: This is what I want, not what the club would ever do.

We should play Pendles half forward and Steele (when available) forward. It'll improve our delivery and goal scoring ability straight away and enable us to play both Jordy and Elliott in midfield (which will also increase our goals from midfield, further easing the pressure on our forwards). Just a better mix and enables the team to start developing for a post-Pendlebury world. It might also prolongue his effectiveness and enable him to contribute well into his late 30s.

Unlike others, I think Elliott should predominantly play midfield. He improved us so much when he went in there at times last season. His movement at ground level made us more dynamic. He's also a more natural insider than Sidebottom.

Forward line (once Steele comes in):

Henry, Mihocek, Pendles
Steele, Cox, Ruscoe

Midfield:

Centre line: Daicos, De Goey, Noble
Ruck: Grundy, Adams, Elliott
Bench: Sier, T Brown (+ another depending on match ups)

Of course Pendles and Steele (and Crisp, IQ, etc) would rotate through the midfield in the above system, but I just prefer the mix both for the now and for the development of the team.

We have also focused predominantly on midfield and defence in our last few drafts. The above approach gets some genuine talent into our forward line where we lack it and creates some more space for our young talent to move into if they develop as well hope. Fast forward a year of playing the above structure and all of a sudden Sier and T Brown have played 30 to 50 games and you've got Macrae, Reef and Rantall types pushing up from below. You then add the greatest football talent in the history of all the universes in Nicky D and things are starting to look peachy.

Just my 4 cents, anyway.
 
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