Prediction 2021 Consensus Best 22 [DONE FOR ANOTHER YEAR]

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JustaBattler

Everyone Looks Better In Blue
May 31, 2012
19,047
31,746
AFL Club
Carlton
....

Walsh Cripps Williams
Setterfield Curnow

Petrevski-Seton Marchbank



I'm really liking it so far.
Playing all of Setterfield/Cripps and Ed as on ball brigade all at the same time - forces wings to be defensive because those three aren't the fastest if they dont win the ball...none of them have any burst speed - although Cripps makes up for it with strength when he is fit...when you pout Murphy ona wing - all you do is tell teh opposition where to run and who to run through...works a treat every time.

Shoving both Walsh and Williams onto a wing - because they are better runners just hides the problem for us...and also keeps Walsh out of clearances where we dont get to use his key strengths around contest - Teague has stated on a few occassions that Walsh was sacrificing his personal game for 'team' benefit - I think unless we have at least one buysrt player around contests - especially center bounces - other teams will continue to walk around and through - which is was a major factor in teams getting a succession of goals against us...

Wing Cripps Wing
TDK Walsh Williams

Setterfield Ed

is the challenge - and no Murphy isnt an answer to any question I have asked myself. Williams played his best midfield games in finals as an onballer - not on wing - just as Martin is most effective on ball when he gets his rotations into midfield - you want smart fast blokes who are also willing tacklers - where the action is...

Need to manufacture genuine wing players and the most likely candidate for me anyway is Williamson - because he can run, mark and kick and doesnt seem to mind tackling - LoB needs to put on size .... Setterfield too slow for a wing and his field kicking is ordinary.

wings shouldn't be covering for weak on ballers #nomoredefensivewingmenatCarlton
 

Matty411

Norm Smith Medallist
Sep 21, 2012
7,114
17,886
AFL Club
Carlton
Playing all of Setterfield/Cripps and Ed as on ball brigade all at the same time - forces wings to be defensive because those three aren't the fastest if they dont win the ball...none of them have any burst speed - although Cripps makes up for it with strength when he is fit...when you pout Murphy ona wing - all you do is tell teh opposition where to run and who to run through...works a treat every time.

Shoving both Walsh and Williams onto a wing - because they are better runners just hides the problem for us...and also keeps Walsh out of clearances where we dont get to use his key strengths around contest - Teague has stated on a few occassions that Walsh was sacrificing his personal game for 'team' benefit - I think unless we have at least one buysrt player around contests - especially center bounces - other teams will continue to walk around and through - which is was a major factor in teams getting a succession of goals against us...

Wing Cripps Wing
TDK Walsh Williams

Setterfield Ed

is the challenge - and no Murphy isnt an answer to any question I have asked myself. Williams played his best midfield games in finals as an onballer - not on wing - just as Martin is most effective on ball when he gets his rotations into midfield - you want smart fast blokes who are also willing tacklers - where the action is...

Need to manufacture genuine wing players and the most likely candidate for me anyway is Williamson - because he can run, mark and kick and doesnt seem to mind tackling - LoB needs to put on size .... Setterfield too slow for a wing and his field kicking is ordinary.

wings shouldn't be covering for weak on ballers #nomoredefensivewingmenatCarlton
I agree, JAB. In reality, our best 22 will probably be fairly close to Round 1. However due to the injury or roles as you've alluded, we'll always be off the mark - until we have a few genuine wingers emerge.
 

Stamos

Brownlow Medallist
Mar 30, 2010
14,145
22,295
AFL Club
Carlton
Playing all of Setterfield/Cripps and Ed as on ball brigade all at the same time - forces wings to be defensive because those three aren't the fastest if they dont win the ball...none of them have any burst speed - although Cripps makes up for it with strength when he is fit...when you pout Murphy ona wing - all you do is tell teh opposition where to run and who to run through...works a treat every time.

Shoving both Walsh and Williams onto a wing - because they are better runners just hides the problem for us...and also keeps Walsh out of clearances where we dont get to use his key strengths around contest - Teague has stated on a few occassions that Walsh was sacrificing his personal game for 'team' benefit - I think unless we have at least one buysrt player around contests - especially center bounces - other teams will continue to walk around and through - which is was a major factor in teams getting a succession of goals against us...

Wing Cripps Wing
TDK Walsh Williams

Setterfield Ed

is the challenge - and no Murphy isnt an answer to any question I have asked myself. Williams played his best midfield games in finals as an onballer - not on wing - just as Martin is most effective on ball when he gets his rotations into midfield - you want smart fast blokes who are also willing tacklers - where the action is...

Need to manufacture genuine wing players and the most likely candidate for me anyway is Williamson - because he can run, mark and kick and doesnt seem to mind tackling - LoB needs to put on size .... Setterfield too slow for a wing and his field kicking is ordinary.

wings shouldn't be covering for weak on ballers #nomoredefensivewingmenatCarlton
You should generally have a defensive wingman in the team. Part of the Wing role is to provide coverage, but you would hope one of the two is more attacking.
Willo definitely has the makings. And lets hope LO'B has a big pre-season, he showed a lot in 2019.

I agree that we would want both Walsh and Williams rotating through the centre square.
 

JustaBattler

Everyone Looks Better In Blue
May 31, 2012
19,047
31,746
AFL Club
Carlton
You should generally have a defensive wingman in the team. Part of the Wing role is to provide coverage, but you would hope one of the two is more attacking.
Willo definitely has the makings. And lets hope LO'B has a big pre-season, he showed a lot in 2019.

I agree that we would want both Walsh and Williams rotating through the centre square.
(not a go at your comment - but generally speaking) I think the notion of 'defensive' or 'attacking' is a bit of a cop out - good players do both really well - excusing players for defensive 'deficiencies' is weird to me - having a few to many of these 'one way running' types is a doom loop. We have the list and depth now to start insisting on certain basic deliverables from all players who want to be best 22.
 

Stamos

Brownlow Medallist
Mar 30, 2010
14,145
22,295
AFL Club
Carlton
(not a go at your comment - but generally speaking) I think the notion of 'defensive' or 'attacking' is a bit of a cop out - good players do both really well - excusing players for defensive 'deficiencies' is weird to me - having a few to many of these 'one way running' types is a doom loop. We have the list and depth now to start insisting on certain basic deliverables from all players who want to be best 22.
Agree that there's no excuse for not running both ways, and that players should be able to do both.

A 'defensive winger' is more about the positioning and running patters of the particular role. Not many teams would play 2 wings that mirror each other on opposite sides of the ground.
 

CJMB

Premiership Player
Aug 30, 2017
3,368
11,232
Melbourne
AFL Club
Carlton
Playing all of Setterfield/Cripps and Ed as on ball brigade all at the same time - forces wings to be defensive because those three aren't the fastest if they dont win the ball...none of them have any burst speed - although Cripps makes up for it with strength when he is fit...when you pout Murphy ona wing - all you do is tell teh opposition where to run and who to run through...works a treat every time.

Shoving both Walsh and Williams onto a wing - because they are better runners just hides the problem for us...and also keeps Walsh out of clearances where we dont get to use his key strengths around contest - Teague has stated on a few occassions that Walsh was sacrificing his personal game for 'team' benefit - I think unless we have at least one buysrt player around contests - especially center bounces - other teams will continue to walk around and through - which is was a major factor in teams getting a succession of goals against us...

Wing Cripps Wing
TDK Walsh Williams

Setterfield Ed

is the challenge - and no Murphy isnt an answer to any question I have asked myself. Williams played his best midfield games in finals as an onballer - not on wing - just as Martin is most effective on ball when he gets his rotations into midfield - you want smart fast blokes who are also willing tacklers - where the action is...

Need to manufacture genuine wing players and the most likely candidate for me anyway is Williamson - because he can run, mark and kick and doesnt seem to mind tackling - LoB needs to put on size .... Setterfield too slow for a wing and his field kicking is ordinary.

wings shouldn't be covering for weak on ballers #nomoredefensivewingmenatCarlton
Not disagreeing - I'd just posted them in positions as per the first mid vote and how they were ranked in the current defenders vote where the least votes got the bench spot. It's not really my call, blame the people...

Using the players voted in (or almost certain to be voted in as defenders) plus Amos' comments about Samo, personally, I'd be setting up like this:

Docherty Weitering Plowman
SPS Jones Saad

Walsh Cripps Williamson
TDK Setterfield Williams

Marchbank Curnow

Yes, Walsh is starting on a wing, but I figure on game day we'll pick a third wing-capable player coming off the bench and there's scope for Fish, Murph, Saad, Williams, Doc, SOS, etc to spend a bit of time there when Walsh plays on-ball. I think I'd still like him to split his time between the two, but with significant midfield time. He's got the tank to play huge minutes anyway, let him have some time with a bit more space. I'm figuring he'd be the winger close to the action, not the one occupying space way out on the 'fat' side, away from the contest.
 

FitzroyBlueBagger

FitzroyBlueBagger
Sep 30, 2018
3,363
7,590
Fitzroy
AFL Club
Carlton
Yeah, all good. Not here to change minds. Just giving mine, and reading others, and conversing now and then.

I just don't see how Newman offers more than Marchbank in the areas you want. Marchbank is a better runner than Newman. Newman is not quick and not agile. The only thing Newman has over Marchbank is a better outlet kick imo. And he's not over great at that either.

Newman is ok, but i think Marchbank offers more to the back 6 and the team. Of course both need to stay fit first.
All good TW, Im a big Marchbank fan so we will see how structures with the backline eventuate for me just one of those situations where I’m looking for more run and pressure both ways...
 

Matty411

Norm Smith Medallist
Sep 21, 2012
7,114
17,886
AFL Club
Carlton
I'll leave the vote open til Monday then switch to forwards but looks likely at this point we'll have a strong back six with Saad and Willo starting additions and Marchy as the 7th man.
 

Stamos

Brownlow Medallist
Mar 30, 2010
14,145
22,295
AFL Club
Carlton
I'll leave the vote open til Monday then switch to forwards but looks likely at this point we'll have a strong back six with Saad and Willo starting additions and Marchy as the 7th man.
I think we should do the ruck vote first, it should be a straight forward vote but might also influence who is picked in the forwardline.

Perhaps also a vote for 6 forwards, and then the final 2 spots rather than 7 then 1?
 

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Matty411

Norm Smith Medallist
Sep 21, 2012
7,114
17,886
AFL Club
Carlton
I think we should do the ruck vote first, it should be a straight forward vote but might also influence who is picked in the forwardline.

Perhaps also a vote for 6 forwards, and then the final 2 spots rather than 7 then 1?
Don't mind the ruck call - makes sense on a few levels (as TDK may make the forward 6 while Pitto wouldn't).

As for forwards, I'd already set out the 7 + 1 to mirror the backline and midfield (once ruck appointed) but I don't mind the suggestion to be honest. If others support the move, I think it makes sense and opens up the chance for Newman, Murphy and co to get a better shot at making the side.

What does everyone else think:

Forwards: Starting six with a vote for last 2 x I/C spots from those with multiple votes?
 

GapInIkonPark

Premiership Player
Nov 22, 2015
3,414
5,763
AFL Club
Carlton
Don't mind the ruck call - makes sense on a few levels (as TDK may make the forward 6 while Pitto wouldn't).

As for forwards, I'd already set out the 7 + 1 to mirror the backline and midfield (once ruck appointed) but I don't mind the suggestion to be honest. If others support the move, I think it makes sense and opens up the chance for Newman, Murphy and co to get a better shot at making the side.

What does everyone else think:

Forwards: Starting six with a vote for last 2 x I/C spots from those with multiple votes?
I think it’s a good idea.
We might be choosing between Murphy, Newman, Cuningham, JSOS, Fisher, Fogarty, Gibbons, Newnes, Dow and others for the last 2 spots.
 
Last edited:

Ash24

Team Captain
Nov 3, 2020
341
1,092
AFL Club
Carlton
Don't mind the ruck call - makes sense on a few levels (as TDK may make the forward 6 while Pitto wouldn't).

As for forwards, I'd already set out the 7 + 1 to mirror the backline and midfield (once ruck appointed) but I don't mind the suggestion to be honest. If others support the move, I think it makes sense and opens up the chance for Newman, Murphy and co to get a better shot at making the side.

What does everyone else think:

Forwards: Starting six with a vote for last 2 x I/C spots from those with multiple votes?
I'm going to go against the popular vote and say leave it how it was.

Let's say if in the last two spots we pick a defender like Newman and another midfielder, team balance and structure would be thrown off. It's important to leave a spot on the bench for a forward who can take that interchange rotation with someone in the forward 6, and then leave that 4th bench spot for someone in any position. Maybe I'm just overthinking it.
 

Ash24

Team Captain
Nov 3, 2020
341
1,092
AFL Club
Carlton
Really liking how this is going.

FB - Plowman, Jones, Marchbank
HB - Docherty, Weiters, Saad

M - Walsh, Cripps, SPS
Fol - Curnow, Williams

I/C - Setters, Willo, Newman (hoping will be the bonus interchange player picked)
 

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