Prediction 2021 Consensus Best 22 [DONE FOR ANOTHER YEAR]

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Arr0w

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If you want, you're welcome to start the "Arr0w's Best 22" thread where there's no poll so other can't accidentally submit the wrong answers to what they think is the best 22.

Lighten up & take this for what it is; it's a vote so by nature it's a popularity contest, not to mention we're coming off a serious rebuild where the whole time we've been focusing on the younger players coming up as the saviors of the club. We're in a position with more depth than we've had in what feels like an eternity which means there's more permutations with votes, particularly those in the 5th-10th spots (of 7) for each position.
This is a consensus of hope and favouritism, not best 22 to win games of football
 

JustaBattler

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Good post, although I reckon Walsh is a lock.

Teague has also said he doesn't know what out best 22 is, and it will depend on form (and preseason).
Don't know how I missed Walshy ( brain fade) - there goes another starting 18 spot...

re 'doesn't know best 22 - I reckon his only problem is wings - and who he goes with shuffles players around - because we have no standout genuine wingmen.

See I rate Gibbons/Newnes/Newman all as AFL players - and I can't fit them all in....and at the same time I really want to see Stocker and when time is rigt Kemp on field...oh and I really like the look of Honey and the efforts and attitude of Cottrell...and I think Dow and Lob will be big improvers ...etc etc...

love the situation we have ( finally) got ourselves into.

and then I think of a few close games where all we needed was a touch of class delivering the ball into 50 or stop the center bounce losses when Cripps was off field...

we are close to a serious break out year...very very close.
 

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ferrisb

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neither JSOS nor Gibbons have shown they can do what McGovern showed in his season 20 highlight reel - have a look - it is why we want him fit and firing...
I don't care about what players can do. I care about what they actually do.

I will cut McGovern some slack, given his injuries. But speaking generally....playing x-factor players that produce sexy highlight reels in between long periods of useless output/injuries is going to lose you more matches than it wins you IMO.
 

ferrisb

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So we can pass comment, critique the MC selections, but not here?

I understand people have their favourites, but wouldn't it be great to get something closer to reality

I wonder, if there was cash/prizes attached, get the feeling people's best 22 would change considerably

Anyway, I guess it's a bit of hit and giggle
Are you suggesting the thread should be renamed '2021 Consensus - Pick the 22 players that you think the match selection committee would pick'?
 

skadoosh

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I don't care about what players can do. I care about what they actually do.

I will cut McGovern some slack, given his injuries. But speaking generally....playing x-factor players that produce sexy highlight reels in between long periods of useless output/injuries is going to lose you more matches than it wins you IMO.
I agree and think we can become too fixated on highlights or that 1 good game a player has had.
Walsh, Weitering, E Curnow to name a few examples of being consistent without having "that one amazing game".
SPS - Collingwood game & Bulldogs game
Cunners - Essendon game
I know it's semantics, but I'd love for it to come to a point where we don't have to single out games to drool over what they could be.
 

Ash24

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If you pencil in the definite statements you get a team that looks like:

Plowman Jones Marchbank*
Saad Weitering Docherty

Williamson Cripps Murphy?/Cuningham
TDK Setterfield Wiliams

Martin Harry McGovern
Eddie Levi Fisher

IC: Ed | SPS | XXX | XXX
Great post. Nice to see a summary of what was said by the coaches, and how that would apply to the 22.

In my opinion, Murphy gets the spot on the wing in front of Cuningham, but only just.

As pointed out by someone (and personally I didn't even notice that he was missing either :tearsofjoy:), Walsh would take one of the final two spots.

After that is when the real struggles start. Who get's that forward rotation on the bench? Gibbons, Newnes or Fogarty are all big chances.

I know it's said by absolutely everyone, but we've got some nice depth.
 

TerryWallet

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Don't know how I missed Walshy ( brain fade) - there goes another starting 18 spot...

re 'doesn't know best 22 - I reckon his only problem is wings - and who he goes with shuffles players around - because we have no standout genuine wingmen.

See I rate Gibbons/Newnes/Newman all as AFL players - and I can't fit them all in....and at the same time I really want to see Stocker and when time is rigt Kemp on field...oh and I really like the look of Honey and the efforts and attitude of Cottrell...and I think Dow and Lob will be big improvers ...etc etc...

love the situation we have ( finally) got ourselves into.

and then I think of a few close games where all we needed was a touch of class delivering the ball into 50 or stop the center bounce losses when Cripps was off field...

we are close to a serious break out year...very very close.

Ditto this. Exciting year/s coming up, and anyone who thinks the status quo is gonna reign is imo off the mark.
 

GapInIkonPark

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Casboult.

TDK cannot ruck all day and we don’t want Harry or Jones rucking significant minutes.

very very stiff ... Murphy, Cuningham and Gibbons
 

Metalcrusher

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The Carlton Consensus Best 22 is BACK
Welcome to the returning regulars and to the newcomers who may be stumbling across this for the first time.

This post will not be short, but I will get to the point. I’m here to save your boredom; rescue you from the postseason blues and help deliver you a groupthink team that Teague and the Coaches will absolutely use as a key part of their thinning going into Season 2021 (okay… not really. But I’m sure they’d at least peek at it, right?)

2020 was a year like no other in our living history, culminating in a strange, disjointed postseason that means we now have Eddie Betts - a Carlton legend - finishing his career on the ‘rookie list’. We also have some super exciting new recruits who will push for selection right away. Good times at Ikon Park.

To date, we’ve had 10 changes to the list for season 2021.

Players who have moved on: Kade Simpson, Matthew Kreuzer, Darcy Lang, Finbar O’Dwyer, Ben Silvagni, Hugh Goddard, Callum Moore, Harrison Macreadie, Cam Polson and Fraser Phillips.

We also welcome the following players to our selection mindset for the upcoming year: Zac Williams, Adam Saad, Lachie Fogarty as well as some soon-to-be-welcomed draftees.

So, before we begin I’d like to reorient you all to the way this will happen, as well as providing you some past data to chew on.

The Rules
We will be choosing the best available 22 players to hypothetically line up for Round 1, 2021 against the (presumably) Tigers at the MCG – essentially, our best starting team on paper. We’ll go through each area of the ground: first the midfield; then the backs; then our forwards; our starting ruck; and finally the final makeup of our bench and emergencies.

As always, we have to use a few assumptions as guides:

1. All players will be fit and eligible for the round one side, this includes Charlie, Harry, Caleb & Brodie (hopefully no one else deserves mention here).
2. We will need a healthy balance of players in each part of the ground i.e. balance of talls/smalls to make a realistic starting side.
3. There are no indiscretions among players leading to disqualification from selection
4. Any player on the list at present are eligible for selection. If some are missing, it may be due to lack of polling slots or the fact they're not (or were not) on our list at the commencement of voting.
5. You should independently choose who you believe will be the best players in each respective position to help us win Round 1 against the old enemy – and likely to continue to be a big part of our team for 2021.

Voting
1. First, we will vote for the 5 starting midfielders (including wings) and your rotation player for bench spot #1 (SIX TOTAL - VOTE COMPLETE)
2. Then we will vote for the 6 starting defenders and your rotation player who will take bench spot #2 (SEVEN TOTAL - VOTE COMPLETE)
3. We will then adjourn for a brief vote to decide our starting ruckman (JUST THE ONE - VOTE COMPLETE)
4. Next, we will vote for our 6 starting forwards and one rotation player for bench spots #3 (SEVEN TOTAL - VOTE COMPLETE)
5. In another break from tradition and in what will surely create heated discussion, we will then vote for the final bench spot and position in our 22 - able to make this vote knowing our Best 21 and the positional mix of the side. Players who receive multiple votes in any previous area of the ground will be eligible for this vote (NOW VOTING)
6. We’ll then put an open vote to decide the emergencies (with priority going to those who earned vote/s previously - in the case of lack of space).

NB: Players will be ruled out for following position/s once they are successful in a particular area of the ground (of account of us not being able to have two of the same player).

Consensus 2021 Line up
FB: L. Plowman (127) - L. Jones (130) - A. Saad (130)
HB: S. Docherty (130) - J. Weitering (130) - T. Williamson (97)
C: S. Walsh (152) - E. Curnow (121) - Z. Williams (144)
HF: Z. Fisher (117) - H. McKay (133) - J. Martin (129)
FF: M. McGovern (68) - C. Curnow (108) - E. Betts (87)
R: T. De Koning (86) - P. Cripps (156) - W. Setterfield (151)
I: S. Petrevski-Seton (49) - C. Marchbank (77) - Silvagni (61)
EMG:

Now, for those who wish for a little extra light reading...

The Carlton Consensus Evolution
Brackets ( ) denote amounts of votes received in a given year.

Consensus 2018 Line up
FB: Ciaran Byrne (98) - Liam Jones (156) - Lachie Plowman (161)
HB: Caleb Marchbank (164) - Jacob Weitering (156) - Kade Simpson (150)
C: Sam Petrevski-Seton (175) - Ed Curnow (157) - Marc Murphy (175)
HF: Charlie Curnow (150) - Levi Casboult (108) - Jarrod Pickett (143)
FF: Matthew Wright (119) - Harry McKay (101) - Jack Silvagni (135)
R: Matthew Kreuzer (181) - Patrick Cripps (183) - Matthew Kennedy (177)
I: Tom Williamson (76) - David Cuningham (67) - Zac Fisher (64) - Paddy Dow (67)
EMG: Darcy Lang (66) - Jarrod Garlett (39) - Aaron Mullett (19)

Actual 2018 Line up
B: Kade Simpson, Liam Jones, Caleb Marchbank
HB: Dale Thomas, Jacob Weitering, Lachie Plowman
C: Aaron Mullett, Patrick Cripps, Marc Murphy
HF: Zac Fisher, Levi Casboult, Jarrod Garlett
F: Matthew Wright, Charlie Curnow, Jack Silvagni
FOL: Matthew Kreuzer, Matthew Kennedy, Sam Petrevski-Seton
I/C: Ed Curnow, Ciaran Byrne, Paddy Dow, Jed Lamb
EMG: David Cuningham, Cameron Polson, Harry McKay, Cameron O'Shea

Differences to Consensus 22 (4)
Named in Round 1: Thomas, Mullett, Garlett, Lamb
Didn’t make the cut: Pickett, Cuningham (EMG), McKay (EMG), Williamson
-------------------------------------------------

Consensus 2019 Line up
FB: Lachie Plowman (121) - Liam Jones (110) - Kade Simpson (146)
HB: Tom Williamson (105) - Jacob Weitering (150) - Caleb Marchbank (151)
C: Marc Murphy (99) - Ed Curnow (104) - Zac Fisher (118)
HF: Mitch McGovern (147) - Charlie Curnow (149) - S. Petrevski-Seton (114)
FF: Will Setterfield (53) - Harry McKay (149) - Alex Fasolo (116)
R: Matthew Kreuzer (132) - Patrick Cripps (152) - Paddy Dow (144)
I: Nic Newman (87) - Matthew Kennedy (87) - Jarrod Pickett (51) - Sam Walsh (40)
EMG: Lochie O'Brien (17) - Dale Thomas (8) - David Cuningham (6) - Tomas Bugg (2)

Actual 2019 Lineup
B: Jarrod Garlett, Liam Jones, Lachie Plowman
HB: Kade Simpson, Jacob Weitering, Nic Newman
C: Marc Murphy, Sam Petrevski-Seton, Zac Fisher
HF: Michael Gibbons, Charlie Curnow, Sam Walsh
F: Ed Curnow, Mitch McGovern, Harry McKay
Foll: Andrew Phillips, Patrick Cripps, Paddy Dow
Int: Dale Thomas, Will Setterfield, Alex Fasolo, David Cuningham
Emg: Cameron Polson, Lochie O'Brien, Levi Casboult, Matthew Lobbe

Differences to Consensus 22 (5)
Named in Round 1: Garlett, Thomas, Phillips, Fasolo, Cuningham
Didn’t make the cut: Marchbank, Williamson, Kreuzer, Kennedy, Pickett
-------------------------------------------------

Consensus 2020 Line up
FB: Lachie Plowman (97%), Liam Jones (99%), Kade Simpson (78%)
HB: Sam Docherty (97%), Jacob Weitering (99%), Caleb Marchbank (74%)
C: Sam Walsh (99%), Patrick Cripps (99%), Will Setterfield (97%)
HF: Mitch McGovern (96%), Harry McKay (99%), Jack Martin (94%)
FF: Eddie Betts (98%), Charlie Curnow (97%), David Cuningham (80%)
FOL: Matthew Kreuzer*, Ed Curnow (96%), Marc Murphy (96%)
INT: Sam Petrevski-Seton (63%), Jack Silvagni (53%), Zac Fisher (69%), Jack Newnes (32%)
EMG: Nic Newman (61%), Matthew Kennedy (22%), Michael Gibbons (30%), Levi Casboult*

Actual 2020 Line up
B: Lachie Plowman, Liam Jones, Sam Docherty
HB: Nic Newman, Jacob Weitering, Sam Petrevski-Seton
C: Sam Walsh, Patrick Cripps, Jack Newnes
HF: Paddy Dow, Mitch McGovern, Jack Martin
F: Michael Gibbons, Levi Casboult, Jack Silvagni
R: Matthew Kreuzer, Marc Murphy, Ed Curnow
INT: Kade Simpson, Will Setterfield, Zac Fisher, David Cuningham
EMG: not noted

Differences to Consensus 22 (4)
Named in Round 1: Newman, Casboult, Gibbons, Dow
Didn’t make the cut: Marchbank, McKay, Betts, Curnow

Now, after the world’s longest prologue, let us begin.
This is a great initiative Matty.
 

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JustaBattler

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I don't care about what players can do. I care about what they actually do.

I will cut McGovern some slack, given his injuries. But speaking generally....playing x-factor players that produce sexy highlight reels in between long periods of useless output/injuries is going to lose you more matches than it wins you IMO.
I get your point - the same can be said of a few players though and I guess each of us is prepared to cut some slack at varying degrees according to who we like more rather than less as a player.
 

BigBreakfast

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Damn, if you pick Cas to rest TDK, we a too big by far. If you pick Gibbo, Murph, Fog, Newnes etc, who rests TDK? H doesn’t seem up to it. Nice selections but, probably not the most flexible side available.
 

TerryWallet

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Damn, if you pick Cas to rest TDK, we a too big by far. If you pick Gibbo, Murph, Fog, Newnes etc, who rests TDK? H doesn’t seem up to it. Nice selections but, probably not the most flexible side available.
I don't get this.

Harry has been relatively nursed so far because he has had a lot of body to grow into and he hasn't done a full pre-season to date, i don't think. He's now grown into that body and is in primo nick to do a full pre-season.

I don't get why he can't do ruck minutes, mainly in the forward line. I'd be disappointed if he had Peter Wright limitations on his ability and willingness to chip in in the ruck. Now that we don't have the distinct proposition that Kruze will injure himself, we no longer have to play a backup ruck. The coaches can hardly contain their enthusism with H and what he can bring to us as a fully developed and fully fit athlete now.

No way have we seen the full arsenel of Harry McKay's game yet.
 

BigBreakfast

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I don't get this.

Harry has been relatively nursed so far because he has had a lot of body to grow into and he hasn't done a full pre-season to date, i don't think. He's now grown into that body and is in primo nick to do a full pre-season.

I don't get why he can't do ruck minutes, mainly in the forward line. I'd be disappointed if he had Peter Wright limitations on his ability and willingness to chip in in the ruck. Now that we don't have the distinct proposition that Kruze will injure himself, we no longer have to play a backup ruck. The coaches can hardly contain their enthusism with H and what he can bring to us as a fully developed and fully fit athlete now.

No way have we seen the full arsenel of Harry McKay's game yet.
Completely agree. I hope it happens as we will become infinitely more flexible and much quicker as we will be able to carry another smaller pressure player that we have a few of now. Has the physical tools to do the job.
 

Govinda blueboy

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Until the club decides Harry plays chop out ruck, Levi will be in the side, simple as that
Your stubbornness is intolerable, why can't you jist stick to the task at hand. That is to pick a consensus best 22, not who you know* will be in the team come rnd 1. Lighten up a little and give others some space to have an opinion.
We have 21 players picked, we pick the last player based on our own opinion of how best to balance this particular team.
Normally I would have Levi as chop out ruck/forward. Teague has made comment that H may be used on occasion, I think Levi misses on account of already having a tall team.
 

Arr0w

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Your stubbornness is intolerable, why can't you jist stick to the task at hand. That is to pick a consensus best 22, not who you know* will be in the team come rnd 1. Lighten up a little and give others some space to have an opinion.
We have 21 players picked, we pick the last player based on our own opinion of how best to balance this particular team.
Normally I would have Levi as chop out ruck/forward. Teague has made comment that H may be used on occasion, I think Levi misses on account of already having a tall team.
And yet another

I am being stubborn for having an opinion because it's different from you?

I will put it this way then

I prefer Harry to do the chopout ruck work, but even when he does that, who will be our tall forward target while he is in the ruck and TDK is resting on the pine, especially given the nature of Teague's gameplan of bombing long it into the 50?

Levi also covers an in game injury for Weitering, Jones, TDK or Harry, the latter two not being able to play key back
 

Govinda blueboy

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And yet another

and there's an answer for you... have you ever thought that maybe you're the odd one out??

I am being stubborn for having an opinion because it's different from you?

not at all I love to hear/read everyone's opinion and they're all valid. The issue I have is that you keep banging on about who's going to play in round 1.... that's not what this thread is about

I will put it this way then

I prefer Harry to do the chopout ruck work, but even when he does that, who will be our tall forward target while he is in the ruck and TDK is resting on the pine, especially given the nature of Teague's gameplan of bombing long it into the 50?


the team we have picked has Charlie Curnow and JSOS and McLovin, I'm sure THIS team can cover for 5 mins a quarter. Hell even plonk TDK in the goalsquare if you think the game plan is to bomb it in. We are trying to balance the team we have picked, not the round one team..

Levi also covers an in game injury for Weitering, Jones, TDK or Harry, the latter two not being able to play key back


I'm sure this team that has CC, HARRY, JSOS, GOV, MARCHY, WEITERS, JONES, PLOWMAN, TDK will be able to manage. But it's better than your alternative to have an unbalanced team for the chance that an injury may occur..
 

Arr0w

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You seem to be receiving quite a bit of similar criticism from a number of different posters.

It could be worth considering the reason for that?
I have made stand alone posts, one that you replied with an opinion but I can't respond?

Just ignore my posts if my opinion doesn't run with the masses
 

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