List Mgmt. 2021 Draft and Trade Hypotheticals

[Ticky009]

Hi everyone, for those interested some great links plus the Big Footy Draft, Trade & Free Agency twitter as per below:

 

[BloodySwan]

Luke Parker and his wife bought a duplex in Sydney last year, planning to live in one and develop the other, didn't they? Think he's set himself up pretty well outside of football, and that moving would only impede that.

Housing market in Sydney has gone nuts over the last 12 months. He can very easily sell his house and move into a better place in Melb for less

 

[Kapers]

can't agree ... across their careers, parker has carried us more often than papley ... for papley to be the matchwinner he can be, he needs the grunt work done up the field, and parker's been doing a lot of that work for a long time
papley also can be ill-disciplined, you rarely see any of that from parker, he's a true leader

Off the top of my head Papley clutched the Geelong and keeped us in the GWS game. Of course you need Parker's help, but Parker needs the forwards to fire as well. My point was that no one player makes a team.

On that note, Parker was ill disciplined against Essendon, giving away 3 free kicks to Stringer. He also made a critical error against Port Adelaide, coughing up the ball in the centre.

I can name times that Papley has done similar or worse, my point is that Parker has the exact same issues that you attribute to Papley.

And you say for Papley to be a match winner he needs Parker, it's the same with Dusty needing the mids around him, but Dusty is still the guy who's wins the match. Parker has dragged this team across the line in the past, but as a top 6 side he's not as important as he once was (which is what it should be).

I still want to keep Parker, but I will die on the "Papley is our best game winner" hill. Only Buddy and Heeney are close.

 

[SSwans2011]

Housing market in Sydney has gone nuts over the last 12 months. He can very easily sell his house and move into a better place in Melb for less

No doubt, but with the kind of money he'd be on, why uproot what you've spent years working on for an extra $100-200k a year? I think the inconvenience to he and his partner would be far from worth it.

Don't think he's been linked to any Victorian clubs this time around - just Gold Coast.

 

[BloodySwan]

No doubt, but with the kind of money he'd be on, why uproot what you've spent years working on for an extra $100-200k a year? I think the inconvenience to he and his partner would be far from worth it.

Don't think he's been linked to any Victorian clubs this time around - just Gold Coast.

The gap isn't an additional 100k, it's an additional 700k (an additional year on his contract). That is worth uprooting your life I would think.

This is also base salary, he'll earn significantly more on match payments in that additional year as well.

The right thing is to give him 3+1 and I think it'll come down to that but we seem really worried about going over our cap after 2022

 

[SSwans2011]

The gap isn't an additional 100k, it's an additional 700k (an additional year on his contract). That is worth uprooting your life I would think.

This is also base salary, he'll earn significantly more on match payments in that additional year as well.

The right thing is to give him 3+1 and I think it'll come down to that but we seem really worried about going over our cap after 2022

An additional $700k assumes he won't get another contract beyond the one we're offering, which I doubt. We've traditionally looked after our older players, and I think he's been around long enough to know that.

 

[Dubai Quacker]

If it's true that there's no kid besides "maybe" Gulden who will do what Parker currently does (turn up every week, give 100% effort, lead by example) then we can forget winning a premiership at all.

With all due respect zyzz, it's absolutely crazy talk. We've not drafted and invested games and experience into Dawson, Mills, Papley, McCartin, Blakey, Rowbottom, McInerney, Warner, Gulden, Campbell etc in the hopes that they will be bit-players. If we are to have any hope at a flag in the next 10 years, then these guys need to be turning up every week, giving 100% effort, and leading by example as Parker does. They need to be putting together the kind of consistent quality performances that will get them in the AA squad and give them red hot cracks at best and fairests like Parker has had this year. If not, then what is the point of all of this? We're going nowhere if we believe these guys aren't capable of that.

I believe they can absolutely do it. I'm not diminishing Parker's contributions this year, but what he is doing this year is not unheard of. If a team is in contention and at the peak of it's powers, you'll have about a dozen guys putting in seasons as impressive as Parker's. The reason his stands out as head and shoulders above is because he's surrounded by young players who aren't there yet, and older guys like Buddy, JPK and Rampe who are still good, but past their primes. It is not some benchmark of individual performance that will be impossible to meet in the future when our kids take over.

I think the point being made was that each team has a player that just adds the “bit” needed to win a flag.

Would Richmond have won 3 without Dusty?

The thing about Parker is that we don’t know how much his loss would impact - as he never misses games.

 

[Millky95]

On that note, Parker was ill disciplined against Essendon, giving away 3 free kicks to Stringer

Blinking gave Stringer a free kick in that game. Mills did the same thing

 

[DeadlyAkkuret]

Some people really seriously underrate Parker.


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[caesar88]

I think the point being made was that each team has a player that just adds the “bit” needed to win a flag.

Would Richmond have won 3 without Dusty?

The thing about Parker is that we don’t know how much his loss would impact - as he never misses games.

Yeah I don't believe Parker is that player. But even if he was, it's silly to assume that there won't be another who can do what Parker can do. That's the point I was trying to make in relation to zyzz's argument.

 

[Bloods86]

Some people really seriously underrate Parker.


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In my case, even though I picked keeping Hewett and Stephens, over Parker, for example - it's not so much that I underrate Parker, it's that I believe I rate Hewett as he deserves, plus the added age gap and still untapped Stephens potential.

At the risk of underrating Parker, something I did just deny - is while he's a contested beast and has been a warrior at the coalface for some time for us, plus sometimes his creativity and consistent set-shots astonish, there is still plenty I shake my head at. In some games this year, I've seen him (and he's not alone, JPK and Mills are guilty of this too), get the ball from a contest only to hack it high for a unsurprisingly ineffective F50 entry or clearance. Even when he has time to assess (this is key). On repeat (also key). I've also seen Parker more specifically, when he doesn't have time to assess, try to be Dusty-like and break through, fend off several tackles only to get done for holding the ball. I can't recall which game, but there was one where this happened several times without much time between and he just didn't learn. I get that Parker isn't expected to be an amazing distributor, but his decision making when he does or doesn't have time, can be quite suspect and hurt us. All this said, he's been a bit above his usual disposal efficiency in recent weeks, and I'd be pretty annoyed if we lost him for what he's done for us, would keep doing and his leadership.

 

[BloodySwan]

If we lose Parker do we keep Hewett and Stephens?

 

[Bloods86]

If we lose Parker do we keep Hewett and Stephens?

No-one really knows. I would imagine if we had a spare 700k or whatever he might get paid to throw around, that Dawson, Hewett and Stephens are much more likely to stay. Dawson sounds like he'll stay regardless. Hewett I suspect would move only if family considerations were improved, he doesn't seem the type to big-up himself, and he's been rewarded quite well this year at least. Stephens, who knows - again I suspect family would be more of a consideration than money, but if he got offered a bucket load more and it was either SA or Vic, then I wouldn't blame him.

Of course, I'll add my usual disclaimer that we're probably just waiting to know how much we can afford to pay people after next year. I'm not one for the media hype about us losing all of the above.

 

[Voice of the G]

If we lose Parker do we keep Hewett and Stephens?

You hope so but No.1 is to keep Parker I would think.

 

[caesar88]

In my case, even though I picked keeping Hewett and Stephens, over Parker, for example - it's not so much that I underrate Parker, it's that I believe I rate Hewett as he deserves, plus the added age gap and still untapped Stephens potential.

At the risk of underrating Parker, something I did just deny - is while he's a contested beast and has been a warrior at the coalface for some time for us, plus sometimes his creativity and consistent set-shots astonish, there is still plenty I shake my head at. In some games this year, I've seen him (and he's not alone, JPK and Mills are guilty of this too), get the ball from a contest only to hack it high for a unsurprisingly ineffective F50 entry or clearance. Even when he has time to assess (this is key). On repeat (also key). I've also seen Parker more specifically, when he doesn't have time to assess, try to be Dusty-like and break through, fend off several tackles only to get done for holding the ball. I can't recall which game, but there was one where this happened several times without much time between and he just didn't learn. I get that Parker isn't expected to be an amazing distributor, but his decision making when he does or doesn't have time, can be quite suspect and hurt us. All this said, he's been a bit above his usual disposal efficiency in recent weeks, and I'd be pretty annoyed if we lost him for what he's done for us, would keep doing and his leadership.

I actually think Parker has improved his hack-kicking. The entire midfield group has, and I think a lot of that has to do with JPK's and Hewett's influence. Those two have injected a certain composure and method into our midfield that was missing up until the bye (which not-coincidentally was when JPK's role was changed and Hewett was shifted into the mids.) Our biggest hack-kicker now is Hickey, and I've learned to begrudgingly accept it because he's a big man and he does so much else right.

My biggest issue with Parker is that I don't see a lot of nous for the contest with him, which is a problem given he's always the one getting his hands on it in the contest. He's not very good at finding the spare player and not very clean at getting it to that player. To make things worse, he's not very good at getting clear of his opponent. He is worn like a glove at every centre bounce and stoppage because he has zero speed to break away from his opponent and zero agility and mobility to shake a tackle or turn out of it. So he just ends up going to ground too easily and it too often becomes a 'scrap' when he is involved, which doesn't suit our run and gun style, nor does it play to our outside distributors advantage.

I really see him as a marking, goal-kicking Matt Crouch. Which still makes him a pretty good player, but take away those non-midfielder things he does, like overhead marking and freakishly accurate set-shot kicking, and I highly doubt his midfield craft alone would impress anyone enough to justify the praise he gets.

 

[Tesla Tenet]

Also just a thought, I think that there will be big pay days next year for McInerney, and two out of three of Gulden, McDonald and Campbell.

Probably hope to keep McLean and Amartey and it is worth trying to get Chol as a backup for Hickey instead of Sinkers.

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[Kiama Chris]

Also just a thought, I think that there will be big pay days next year for McInerney, and two out of three of Gulden, McDonald and Campbell.

Probably hope to keep McLean and Amartey and it is worth trying to get Chol as a backup for Hickey instead of Sinkers.

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Hadn't thought of Chol. Is he available and is he good enough? The question is rhetorical as I'm sure Kinnear and Simon will be all over it.

 

[Kapers]

Blinking gave Stringer a free kick in that game. Mills did the same thing

Yeah, not going to disagree there. Just saying every player has spurts of being ill disciplined.

 

[Kapers]

Some people really seriously underrate Parker.


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I mean, I think Parker is the most important player of the 4 to resign and I would give him 4 years. I rate Parker very highly, I just don't think we as a team rely on him, as we don't rely on anyone. Any top team should be able to handle 2-3 key outs and still win games imo. Otherwise you're too one dimensional.

 

[Dubai Quacker]

I mean, I think Parker is the most important player of the 4 to resign and I would give him 4 years. I rate Parker very highly, I just don't think we as a team rely on him, as we don't rely on anyone. Any top team should be able to handle 2-3 key outs and still win games imo. Otherwise you're too one dimensional.

We’d have never won a flag in 2012 (or possibly 2005) without Goodsey.

I’m not claiming Parker to be the equal of Goodes, but one player can be the difference.

 

[Bloods86]

Also just a thought, I think that there will be big pay days next year for McInerney, and two out of three of Gulden, McDonald and Campbell.

Probably hope to keep McLean and Amartey and it is worth trying to get Chol as a backup for Hickey instead of Sinkers.

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My hope is that by the time we need to start paying up for the youngsters, the likes of Heeney, Lloyd, Papley will be coming off their rumoured big money deals and they'll be persuaded to stay on (especially Heeney, Papley given age) at lesser money for potential flag success. One would hope by that time, they've resolved to be one club players.

 

[Tesla Tenet]

We’d have never won a flag in 2012 (or possibly 2005) without Goodsey.

I’m not claiming Parker to be the equal of Goodes, but one player can be the difference.

Or without LRT, or ROK.

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[Kapers]

We’d have never won a flag in 2012 (or possibly 2005) without Goodsey.

I’m not claiming Parker to be the equal of Goodes, but one player can be the difference.

Yes, one player can be the difference, but not the team. The post that I originally objected to said that we wouldnt be able to win a premiership without Parker over the next 2 years.
Losing Parker would be a blow, but I think we'll still have a chance at the premiership with out list.

 

[dosser]

Flicking through the different threads in here is like exploring through a multiverse. It is the same discussion on a number of threads but with slightly different nuances.

 

[Bandicoot]

Yeah, no, don't agree with that. If our team is reliant on one player we have a bad team.

Papley has pulled us through more games than Parker. Heeney's efforts turned two games on their heads, Dawson and McInerney have been stand outs.

I don't mind talking up Parker, but no player is irreplaceable, and as much as I love Parker there would be a team without him.

Also weirdly overconfident about Gulden. I think Gulden great, but Mills will be our next captain.

Richmond's been reliant on one player for 4 years. They won 3 flags in that time.

 

[Bandicoot]

The gap isn't an additional 100k, it's an additional 700k (an additional year on his contract). That is worth uprooting your life I would think.

This is also base salary, he'll earn significantly more on match payments in that additional year as well.

The right thing is to give him 3+1 and I think it'll come down to that but we seem really worried about going over our cap after 2022

Gold Coast will probably offer him $700K in 3 years time if we don't give him a 1 year extension.