List Mgmt. 2021 Draft and Trade Hypotheticals

[Ticky009]

Hi everyone, for those interested some great links plus the Big Footy Draft, Trade & Free Agency twitter as per below:

 

[caesar88]

McAsey played the whole season in the SANFL (18 matches) after Adelaide signed him to a 2 year contract extension in April 2021.

The Crows even preferred to trial Billy Frampton in defence in preference to giving McAsey a game.

Can't help feeling that the enthusiasm for McAsey is much more to do with his recruiting with pick 6 in the 2019 draft than anything to do with his performances to date.

Correct, but what alternative is there to be excited about? Receiving their draft pick and just using that on a kid we know even less about?

I don't see McAsey playing no senior footy in his first two years as that worrying a sign. I thought little of Weitering, Jiath, Logue etc in their first few seasons. Key defenders take time to develop and we could save ourselves a few years of that development by taking one who has already been in the system a while as opposed to a raw 18 year old in this year's draft.

Like I said though, nothing about it is ideal. Crows really don't have an array of talent that inspires enthusiasm, so we have to find it where we can.

 

[scaryness]

Doedee or bust

So we're going to bust.

 

[Kapers]

I mean, trading in McAsey would be the equivalent of drafting in a kpd. He isn't anything incredible, but he's no worse than drafting a kpd in the draft imo.

 

[Tedeski]

I really don't find any of the Adelaide players attractive. Much prefer picks.

That player Dawson looks promising.
We could use pick 12

 

[hairy biker]

That player Dawson looks promising.
We could use pick 12

No way.

They take our third rounder or we take him in the PSD.

#listmanager #tippettpayback

 

[Superstar swan]

Very interesting to look at some of the re signings around the league and connect the dots.

Guys like Ed Richards

20

Ed Richards

Age

24

Ht

188cm

Wt

89kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

12.4

3star

K

7.2

3star

HB

5.2

4star

M

2.5

3star

T

2.4

4star

MG

201.4

3star

D

11.3

3star

K

6.0

2star

HB

5.3

3star

M

1.5

2star

T

2.5

3star

MG

198.3

3star

D

14.6

4star

K

9.8

4star

HB

4.8

4star

M

4.8

5star

T

2.6

4star

MG

232.4

4star

, and weiderman sign extensions when they are clearly outside of the best 22 and would easily get games at most other clubs. This tells me there is either no money available or clubs/players are reluctant to move for one reason or another

 

[Slingshot Footy]

Very interesting to look at some of the re signings around the league and connect the dots.

Guys like Ed Richards, and weiderman sign extensions when they are clearly outside of the best 22 and would easily get games at most other clubs. This tells me there is either no money available or clubs/players are reluctant to move for one reason or another

Could also be that they feel that they're on the cusp of making it into the best 22 of two strong contending teams for the next couple of years and don't want to miss the opportunity to stake their claim.

 

[Jimbo OZ]

Draft experts, help me out. For my understanding pick 12 will allow us to get one of Van Rooyen, Amiss, or Aleer as good talls. Is Gibcus that much better than these guys that we’d trade Dawson and 12 to be able to draft him with pick 4?

It seems overs to me to be basically trading Amiss & Dawson for Gibcus. I’d rather do the multiple 2nd rounder options if available.

 

[the hypnotoad]

I mean, trading in McAsey would be the equivalent of drafting in a kpd. He isn't anything incredible, but he's no worse than drafting a kpd in the draft imo.

where would he rate on the brand-meter?

 

[Dubai Quacker]

Back page todays Age:
Sydney could attempt to secure a player in exchange for 24-year-old Dawson, who had a breakout year in 2021 when he finished third in the club best and fairest.
Riley Thilthorpe? Ben Keays? Chayce Jones? Will Hamill? Darcy Fogarty? Jordan Butts?
So who would be a 'fair' swap??

Doedee

 

[Bandicoot]

Apparently we have a couple of good kids. Billy King is supposed to be the pick of the lot who is currently 198cm and a dominant ruckman, could possibly end up in the first round.

Hope he grows another 7-8cm before draft time.

 

[Bandicoot]

I think it‘s quite bizarre how a significant proportion of supporters are hitching the value to a late 1st rounder as fair. He’s now possibly in the top handful of highest paid players for age in the league. 24yrs on a 5-6yr contract for £650k, in a reduced salary cap (Which is the equivalent of £720K pre-covid). That alone tells you his value which ain’t anywhere near pick 16. Contracted, he’s pick 5-8. Uncontracted, he’s pick 8-12. The whole AFL insiders know it. The AFL media are still trying to work out who else plays for the Swans besides Parker, Franklin, Papley and Heeney - so I don’t expect them to know his value. I would expect Adelaide to bluff to the PSD and throw out a token 23 which equals 26, but I can’t believe our own are saying, yeah that’s fair enough.

You’re falling for the Overton window. He’s worth 1250 draft points (pick 12) minimum, which is a hefty discount to Adelaide. Beatson now just needs to find the pick swap deals to gain those points.

The unfortunate reality (as we continue to say here) is that what he is worth and what we are likely to get for him are two completely different scenarios.
Agreed, he is worthy of a top 10 pick.
Draft points are totally irrelevant here as father/son or academy selections are the only time where points come into play.
Having said he is worthy of a top 10 selection, the issue we have is that he is out of contract hence we have no serious hold on him. If a deal can't be struck he will nominate his terms (of which Adelaide have already agreed to and go to the PSD where Adelaide will be successful in getting him costing them zero.
They know that and we know that.
Our only hope is that Adelaide don't want to be seen as a club that is completely unfair in it's dealings which could come back to bite them in the years to come. As a result they may come part of the way to what we want but it will still be well below his true worth.
We have to accept this and just hope in the years to come, the situation is reversed and one of their guns, who is sick of losing week after week, chooses to come to us.

 

[Punts]

Geez it’s annoying af to be loosing such a gun and he will only get better

That bulldog win this year is pudding me of now because of good he was and now we don’t have

 

[Bandicoot]

The Carlton, Saints and Essendon games from early to mid-season immediately spring to mind. But it was the manner of how we lost compared to the games we lost. Smashed in contested ball, smashed in one on one defensive contests and when we did get the ball incredibly poor inside 50s

Absolutely we improved on last year but I just don't think we're as good as we all think and top 4 expectations going into next season are drastically mistaken unless we somehow trade in an AA quality full back and another 30 dis + 1 goal a game mid

Now, that could be a development from one our current players and that'd be ******* awesome. I just think they are a few seasons off it

I know it's blasphemy to say so, but I tend to agree.
Most of the top sides will improve their lists this year and as much as people may say we have replacements for Hewitt and Dawson, they don't make our side better. Keeping Dawson and then using his replacement elsewhere is the way to improve.
I don't believe we are a serious flag threat until we find at least 1 more KPD and a ruck to replace Hickey as I feel our true window of opportunity is 2-3 years away when Hickey will have retired along with Buddy, JPK and Rampe.
I don't know how we are to get the players we need as I have no idea how our salary cap issues will look past 2022 but we have to find a way.

 

[Membling]

Draft experts, help me out. For my understanding pick 12 will allow us to get one of Van Rooyen, Amiss, or Aleer as good talls. Is Gibcus that much better than these guys that we’d trade Dawson and 12 to be able to draft him with pick 4?

It seems overs to me to be basically trading Amiss & Dawson for Gibcus. I’d rather do the multiple 2nd rounder options if available.

Out of those tall prefer Van Rooyen. Has better versatility. Not sure that Amiss' game will translate as well.

Much, much prefer to go tall mid talent at pick 12, especially with Bazzo likely available around 20-30

 

[Punts]

Will need to replace rampe also soon

Defence is an issue going forward

 

[Ticky009]

Will need to replace rampe also soon

Defence is an issue going forward

THIS!!!

I've been banging on about it all thread but I'll go again. Looking forward the next few years defence is our area of most concern. My locks are McCartin, Blakey, Cunningham.

Although Blakey needs to learn to defend as well as he attacks the ball so that's still a work in progress I feel.

Everyone else is changeable.

 

[SGBeach]

Theres a few good talls coming out of WA this draft. Freo is likely to have 2 x top 10 picks and Eagles likely to have p10. Thats 3 x WA picks before our p12. Both Freo and Eagles are more likely to take a forward before a defender. Freo doesn't like Lobb and has been crying out for a tall forward, Freo also losing Cerra. Eagles are about to lose Kennedy, and Darling not far behind him.
so.. at a guess
Freo will take a tall and a mid
Eagles will take Amiss
Swans can take Van Rooyen p12 (Twomey had him late 20's last top 30, reckon Twomey will have him about late teens in his next list which will come out in a coupe of days.. fwiw)

 

[SGBeach]

THIS!!!

I've been banging on about it all thread but I'll go again. Looking forward the next few years defence is our area of most concern. My locks are McCartin, Blakey, Cunningham.

Although Blakey needs to learn to defend as well as he attacks the ball so that's still a work in progress I feel.

Everyone else is changeable.

hmm.. what about Rampe and Lloyd? they're not too bad in the back 6.
agree with Blackey , but Ill back him to learn pretty quick
Havnt lost faith in Gould, or even OConnor. Also reckon Paddy may play back there
Im thinking we'll draft a KPD and also get one via trade or a mature rookie

 

[Ticky009]

hmm.. what about Rampe and Lloyd? they're not too bad in the back 6.
agree with Blackey , but Ill back him to learn pretty quick
Havnt lost faith in Gould, or even OConnor. Also reckon Paddy may play back there
Im thinking we'll draft a KPD and also get one via trade or a mature rookie

I love Rampes to bits but this year father time caught up with him badly.

 

[BloodySwan]

Rotham still hasn't signed on. One player out of contract we should look into. He's just a talent who would suit our game style.

 

[the hypnotoad]

I know it's blasphemy to say so, but I tend to agree.
Most of the top sides will improve their lists this year and as much as people may say we have replacements for Hewitt and Dawson, they don't make our side better. Keeping Dawson and then using his replacement elsewhere is the way to improve.
I don't believe we are a serious flag threat until we find at least 1 more KPD and a ruck to replace Hickey as I feel our true window of opportunity is 2-3 years away when Hickey will have retired along with Buddy, JPK and Rampe.
I don't know how we are to get the players we need as I have no idea how our salary cap issues will look past 2022 but we have to find a way.

there's been so much discussion around our supposed salary cap issues ... surely the likes of melbourne (in particular), the dogs, even brisbane and port will face pressure to pay their outstanding, improving young lists ...
melbourne is now full of premiership players ... a lot of them will be asking/expecting more money over the next few seasons, the dogs will be in the same boat ... so it'll be interesting to see if there's as much media attention on these clubs as there seems to have been on us the past few months but, more importantly, does this mean some big names, particularly younger players, will be accepting big offers to move?
i'm not in any way suggesting we start sniffing around, clearly we can't afford big names but it surely means there will be decent players at some of these clubs knowing they're either going to miss out on playing time or decent contracts in the next year or so
or will they all simply end up doing whatever it is a club like geelong does? ...

 

[Millky95]

there's been so much discussion around our supposed salary cap issues ... surely the likes of melbourne (in particular), the dogs, even brisbane and port will face pressure to pay their outstanding, improving young lists ...
melbourne is now full of premiership players ... a lot of them will be asking/expecting more money over the next few seasons, the dogs will be in the same boat ... so it'll be interesting to see if there's as much media attention on these clubs as there seems to have been on us the past few months but, more importantly, does this mean some big names, particularly younger players, will be accepting big offers to move?
i'm not in any way suggesting we start sniffing around, clearly we can't afford big names but it surely means there will be decent players at some of these clubs knowing they're either going to miss out on playing time or decent contracts in the next year or so
or will they all simply end up doing whatever it is a club like geelong does? ...

I am sure because Melbourne is signifigantly cheaper and with more media opportunities, Melbourne will fit their cap just fine (looking at Petracca on 360 every week)

 

[SGBeach]

I love Rampes to bits but this year father time caught up with him badly.

Im backing Rampe to bounce back in a big way.
I reckon it wasn't so much father time that caught up with, rather it was hub life.. Just guessing, but when all the players go on their end of year holiday with their team mates to some superficial destination like Bali or Las Vegas.. Rampe goes alone to the middle east. He strikes me as an individual who needs his space. Maybe that all caught up with him??

 

[WeedsMullet84]

Correct, but what alternative is there to be excited about? Receiving their draft pick and just using that on a kid we know even less about?

I don't see McAsey playing no senior footy in his first two years as that worrying a sign. I thought little of Weitering, Jiath, Logue etc in their first few seasons. Key defenders take time to develop and we could save ourselves a few years of that development by taking one who has already been in the system a while as opposed to a raw 18 year old in this year's draft.

Like I said though, nothing about it is ideal. Crows really don't have an array of talent that inspires enthusiasm, so we have to find it where we can.

Sorry for the intrusion.

McAsey actually played 10 games in his first season. Then his dad then almost died just before last pre-season got underway after suffering a medical incident whilst in the pool and had to be resuscitated. There was then footage of him collapsing doing the club 5KM run so it was clear some of the family stuff going on had a pretty big impact on his ability to get a solid pre-season in, build some size and get some momentum going into the season proper. A lot of his issues at the moment are purely to do with size, which i think an uninterrupted off-season in the weights room should help with.
Personally i'd prefer we held onto him, but we do have a massive glut of players vying for that position, and even Billy Frampton looks like he's going to be pretty serviceable in that position after failing up forward.

To me it looks as if Butts' definitely holding down the first KPD position, and then McAsey, Worrell, Murray & Frampton will all be given time down back again. A few of them might also be trialled up forward as well if we have an injury, in the hope that one of them locks down one of those positions, or at least they show a bit to become trade value.